Amazing Discoveries

[Jaebius]

Saw this tonight on Facebook...

Scientists have uncovered 14 biomaterials in dinosaur bones. They're substances that shouldn't survive for 65M years.

Carbon-14 has been detected in dinosaur bone studies. Collagen has been identified at the molecular level. That’s tens of millions of years short of the timeline we’ve all been taught.

Since these bones contain materials that can't possibly endure for 65M years, the bones themselves can't logically be that old!

Source: ICR

 

[Mendalla]

I'm sorry, but you're citing the Institute for Creation Research for this? Not a peer-reviewed science journal? That's not how science works. I'll poke around later and see what the real story is. They have a well-developed tendency to spin stories to their advantage.

Since these bones contain materials that can't possibly endure for 65M years, the bones themselves can't logically be that old!

Since there is other good evidence that they are that old, the logical conclusion is actually that further investigation is needed to see if maybe those biomaterials can actually last longer than we original believed. Or that the biomaterials are later contamination. And a 10 million year difference isn't a big one in geological time. We are already pretty sure that some non-bird dinosaur species lived for a time after KPg extinction. Not that long, but that's another thing that would need to be considered.

In short, assuming they are even telling the truth about what was found, it's a sign more research is needed, not that we can throw out all the other evidence and conclude the God created the Earth in seven days in 6500BCE (or whatever year it is).

 

[Jaebius]

I'm sorry, but you're citing the Institute for Creation Research for this? Not a peer-reviewed science journal? That's not how science works. I'll poke around later and see what the real story is. They have a well-developed tendency to spin stories to their advantage.

Not how science works? I'm actually okay about that. That's why I created my OP in "Religion and Faith."

Since there is other good evidence that they are that old, the logical conclusion is actually that further investigation is needed to see if maybe those biomaterials can actually last longer than we original believed. Or that the biomaterials are later contamination. And a 10 million year difference isn't a big one in geological time. We are already pretty sure that some non-bird dinosaur species lived for a time after KPg extinction. Not that long, but that's another thing that would need to be considered.

In short, assuming they are even telling the truth about what was found, it's a sign more research is needed, not that we can throw out all the other evidence and conclude the God created the Earth in seven days in 6500BCE (or whatever year it is).

I see discoveries like these as a reminder that the prevailing timelines aren't the only way to interpret the evidence.

For me, it’s about recognizing that our worldview shapes how we interpret data. Since I start from the belief that God created the world recently, finding biomaterials in fossils fits that framework quite naturally.

I think it’s fair to say that these amazing discoveries open the door to considering alternative models

 

[Mendalla]

I think it’s fair to say that these amazing discoveries open the door to considering alternative models

Only if you ignore the scientific method. Science is not a belief system or body of knowledge, but a method for gaining knowledge and, more importantly, testing it. Which is why our understanding of the world can change as we learn more vs. being fossilized in 2000+ year-old texts.

 

[Jaebius]

Only if you ignore the scientific method. Science is not a belief system or body of knowledge, but a method for gaining knowledge and, more importantly, testing it. Which is why our understanding of the world can change as we learn more vs. being fossilized in 2000+ year-old texts.

So again, I posted in the "Religion and Faith" forum. So the discussion's not meant to be limited to science

 

[WhyCzar]

Science is not a belief system or body of knowledge, but a method for gaining knowledge and, more importantly, testing it.

Politics is a greater enemy to science than religion is.

Politics, more than religion, often sets science aside when the findings threaten its preferred policies.

 

[WhyCzar]

I think it’s fair to say that these amazing discoveries open the door to considering alternative models

How is the chronology of fossil bones relevant to giving us this day our daily bread?

 

[Jaebius]

How is the chronology of fossil bones relevant to giving us this day our daily bread?

If the bones are young, WhyCzar, it affirms Scripture’s timeline as trustworthy.

If we can trust God’s Creation account, then we can trust His provision promises.

The daily bread that many of us pray for is grounded in the same God we believe made the heavens and the earth in six days and declared them “good!”

To dismiss the fossils' age as irrelevant would be to us to separate faith from reality, and that would undermine our relational trust between God and ourselves

 

[unsafe]

If the bones are young, WhyCzar, it affirms Scripture’s timeline as trustworthy.

If God thought it was important for Believers to know the age of this earth ---He would have put the age in His word -----

If we need a timeline to Trust God's Scriptures ---then we are no different than Doubting Thomas who needed Proof to believe and Trust that Jesus was the Messiah

Believers are suppose to believe and trust the Scriptures cause God says they are TRUTH ---

The Scientists are striving and striving with their own intellectual minds ---trying desperately to be able to say they can Prove the earth is Billions of years old with their human intelligentsia data ------so let them think they have it all figured out it Puffs up their EGO and makes them feel good ----

Don't think God really cares what the Scientists think they have proof of as the scientists will all answer to God in their end and then they will know the real truth -----they can ask God directly how old His earth is ----and if they haven't received Jesus in their hearts ===they will be thrown into the middle of the very earth they thought they knew the age of -----

The Bible isn't about The Earth and how old it is ----It is all about the Coming of The Messiah to save the lost -----



As you see here trying to find the Earth's Age has been going on for eons --all with different ages ---Millions the Billions of years old -----so on one has the right answer and they never will ---Fruitless endeavor -----

From Google

Historical Attempts and Early Theories

Before modern physics, finding the planet's true age baffled natural philosophers and scientists:

Ancient and medieval estimates: Religious scholars used generational records to guess an age of only a few thousand years.

Lord Kelvin’s cooling math: In the 1800s, physicist Lord Kelvin calculated how long it took a molten Earth to cool, estimating 20 to 400 million years. He was wrong because he did not know about internal radioactive heating.

Discovery of radioactivity: Finding unstable elements like uranium decaying at steady rates finally gave scientists a reliable atomic clock.


Radiometric Dating Breakthroughs

Isotope half-lives: Unstable parent atoms decay into stable daughter atoms (like uranium turning into lead) at a fixed, measurable rate.

Zircon crystals: Terrestrial crystals from Western Australia date back roughly 4.4 billion years, showing the minimum age of our cooled crust.

Meteorite consistency: Space rocks analyzed across the globe repeatedly confirm the solar system's age at roughly 4.5 billion years.


God gives good advice here ---Scientists should take heed ----my view

 

[Jaebius]

If God thought it was important for Believers to know the age of this earth ---He would have put the age in His word -----

If we need a timeline to Trust God's Scriptures ---then we are no different than Doubting Thomas who needed Proof to believe and Trust that Jesus was the Messiah

Believers are suppose to believe and trust the Scriptures cause God says they are TRUTH ---

The Scientists are striving and striving with their own intellectual minds ---trying desperately to be able to say they can Prove the earth is Billions of years old with their human intelligentsia data ------so let them think they have it all figured out it Puffs up their EGO and makes them feel good ----

Don't think God really cares what the Scientists think they have proof of as the scientists will all answer to God in their end and then they will know the real truth -----they can ask God directly how old His earth is ----and if they haven't received Jesus in their hearts ===they will be thrown into the middle of the very earth they thought they knew the age of -----

The Bible isn't about The Earth and how old it is ----It is all about the Coming of The Messiah to save the lost -----



As you see here trying to find the Earth's Age has been going on for eons --all with different ages ---Millions the Billions of years old -----so on one has the right answer and they never will ---Fruitless endeavor -----

From Google

Historical Attempts and Early Theories

Before modern physics, finding the planet's true age baffled natural philosophers and scientists:

Ancient and medieval estimates: Religious scholars used generational records to guess an age of only a few thousand years.

Lord Kelvin’s cooling math: In the 1800s, physicist Lord Kelvin calculated how long it took a molten Earth to cool, estimating 20 to 400 million years. He was wrong because he did not know about internal radioactive heating.

Discovery of radioactivity: Finding unstable elements like uranium decaying at steady rates finally gave scientists a reliable atomic clock.


Radiometric Dating Breakthroughs

Isotope half-lives: Unstable parent atoms decay into stable daughter atoms (like uranium turning into lead) at a fixed, measurable rate.

Zircon crystals: Terrestrial crystals from Western Australia date back roughly 4.4 billion years, showing the minimum age of our cooled crust.

Meteorite consistency: Space rocks analyzed across the globe repeatedly confirm the solar system's age at roughly 4.5 billion years.


God gives good advice here ---Scientists should take heed ----my view

View attachment 12637

The problem, unsafe, isn’t scientists' intellect. The issue’s that they interpret data through a worldview that excludes the Creator.

We believers are called to go beyond science's limitations.

That’s why ministries like AIG and ICR work so hard to show that science and Scripture align when interpreted correctly.

The Messiah came into real history.

If Gen's treated as allegory, then the Good News's foundation crumbles

 

[Luce NDs]

If God thought it was important for Believers to know the age of this earth ---He would have put the age in His word -----

If we need a timeline to Trust God's Scriptures ---then we are no different than Doubting Thomas who needed Proof to believe and Trust that Jesus was the Messiah

Believers are suppose to believe and trust the Scriptures cause God says they are TRUTH ---

The Scientists are striving and striving with their own intellectual minds ---trying desperately to be able to say they can Prove the earth is Billions of years old with their human intelligentsia data ------so let them think they have it all figured out it Puffs up their EGO and makes them feel good ----

Don't think God really cares what the Scientists think they have proof of as the scientists will all answer to God in their end and then they will know the real truth -----they can ask God directly how old His earth is ----and if they haven't received Jesus in their hearts ===they will be thrown into the middle of the very earth they thought they knew the age of -----

The Bible isn't about The Earth and how old it is ----It is all about the Coming of The Messiah to save the lost -----



As you see here trying to find the Earth's Age has been going on for eons --all with different ages ---Millions the Billions of years old -----so on one has the right answer and they never will ---Fruitless endeavor -----

From Google

Historical Attempts and Early Theories

Before modern physics, finding the planet's true age baffled natural philosophers and scientists:

Ancient and medieval estimates: Religious scholars used generational records to guess an age of only a few thousand years.

Lord Kelvin’s cooling math: In the 1800s, physicist Lord Kelvin calculated how long it took a molten Earth to cool, estimating 20 to 400 million years. He was wrong because he did not know about internal radioactive heating.

Discovery of radioactivity: Finding unstable elements like uranium decaying at steady rates finally gave scientists a reliable atomic clock.


Radiometric Dating Breakthroughs

Isotope half-lives: Unstable parent atoms decay into stable daughter atoms (like uranium turning into lead) at a fixed, measurable rate.

Zircon crystals: Terrestrial crystals from Western Australia date back roughly 4.4 billion years, showing the minimum age of our cooled crust.

Meteorite consistency: Space rocks analyzed across the globe repeatedly confirm the solar system's age at roughly 4.5 billion years.


God gives good advice here ---Scientists should take heed ----my view

View attachment 12637

Thus an amazing sense of science and observation above the blind visions ... or otherwise out there with no urge to look back at past evidence prior to the present authority that is stuck ... and so the great unknown flows! Many will not see this comment for significant reasons that simulate logic ...

Integral? There is no such thing in the broken children of everything that is god ... a waste if they cannot learn of other things that are alien to them during this period of outage ...

 

[unsafe]

The issue’s that they interpret data through a worldview that excludes the Creator.

They are worldly people there Jaebius ---they think and act like the world as all unbelievers do ----the world has excluded God from everything ------their hearts are hardened toward God and therefore they are away from God -----they are living rightly as the world lives ------their Trust is in their Data that they Strive under Stress to find to exclude God ----but they don't need the DATA as they are already EXCLUDED away from God because of the Sin Nature ----

Belief in God and His word is A HEART ISSUE -Jaebius --NOt A DATA Issue ----

These Associations trying to Prove that this Carbon 14 etc shows Proof that it lines up with Scripture is FUTILE -----it will not change the hearts of the unbelievers cause they are Spiritually blinded by Satan -----God the Father is only one who can change a Hardened Heart to an acceptable heart to believe in Him and His word -----

We believers are called to go beyond science's limitations.

Who says that ???????????---Scripture Please -------we believers are to grow in Christ's faith and mature Spiritually by trusting in Him and His word ---and we are to Preach and Teach the Gospel of Grace ----nothing in Scripture that says we are to go beyond science's limitations --

That is a bunch of Hoop La -----in my view ---but i guess you need to think that -----

That’s why ministries like AIG and ICR work so hard to show that science and Scripture align when interpreted correctly.

Again needing Proof that science and Scripture need to align in their interpretations -----is trusting these Ministries Proof more than trusting God and His Proof in Scripture that says ---Rely on the Holy Spirit for your Interpretation not Proof of Carbon 14 found in Bones that science and scripture align in their interpretation ----Futile Proof -----as Interpretation and alignment of Scripture comes through Christ's Faith and Trust in His Word and reliance on the Holy Spirit to provide Proof ----

If True Believers really want to know how old the earth is they should Pray about it and listen to what the Holy Spirit says ------all AIG and ICR and Science can do is offer their Speculation -----

The Messiah came into real history.

The Messiah came to bring a better Covenant so all people could be brought back to have a personal relationship with God and Restore eternal life ----He never came to prove the Age of the earth ----All people should be concerned about is where their Spirit and Soul will end up after the die ---Knowing the age of this earth will not help them after they die -----


Now AIG made a time line on their sight giving Problem issues with Old Earth theory

Problems with Other “Interpretations”

Problem/Theory	Gap Theory	Theistic Evolution	Day-Age Theory	Progressive Creation	Framework Hypothesis
Other “order of events” conflict
Places death before sin	X	X	X	X	X
Sun created before earth	X	X	X	X	X
Satan fell before end of creation week	X	X	X	X	X
Dinosaurs did not live with man	X	X	X	X	X
Noah's flood was not a worldwide catastrophe	X	X	X	X	X
All creation was not “very good”	X	X	X	X	X
Symbiotic relationships non-existent		X	X	X	X

My view
There Is only One person who knows how old the earth is -------and That is GOD ----so believers who need to know need to Pray and ask and wait for the Truthful answer -----digging and striving for Proof is stressful and gives way to Grey Hair ====in my view ---I say REST IN GOD and maintain inner peace -----


That is my Sermon for the Day -----

 

[Jaebius]

They are worldly people there Jaebius ---they think and act like the world as all unbelievers do ----the world has excluded God from everything ------their hearts are hardened toward God and therefore they are away from God -----they are living rightly as the world lives ------their Trust is in their Data that they Strive under Stress to find to exclude God ----but they don't need the DATA as they are already EXCLUDED away from God because of the Sin Nature ----

Belief in God and His word is A HEART ISSUE -Jaebius --NOt A DATA Issue ----

These Associations trying to Prove that this Carbon 14 etc shows Proof that it lines up with Scripture is FUTILE -----it will not change the hearts of the unbelievers cause they are Spiritually blinded by Satan -----God the Father is only one who can change a Hardened Heart to an acceptable heart to believe in Him and His word -----


Who says that ???????????---Scripture Please -------we believers are to grow in Christ's faith and mature Spiritually by trusting in Him and His word ---and we are to Preach and Teach the Gospel of Grace ----nothing in Scripture that says we are to go beyond science's limitations --

That is a bunch of Hoop La -----in my view ---but i guess you need to think that -----



Again needing Proof that science and Scripture need to align in their interpretations -----is trusting these Ministries Proof more than trusting God and His Proof in Scripture that says ---Rely on the Holy Spirit for your Interpretation not Proof of Carbon 14 found in Bones that science and scripture align in their interpretation ----Futile Proof -----as Interpretation and alignment of Scripture comes through Christ's Faith and Trust in His Word and reliance on the Holy Spirit to provide Proof ----

If True Believers really want to know how old the earth is they should Pray about it and listen to what the Holy Spirit says ------all AIG and ICR and Science can do is offer their Speculation -----


The Messiah came to bring a better Covenant so all people could be brought back to have a personal relationship with God and Restore eternal life ----He never came to prove the Age of the earth ----All people should be concerned about is where their Spirit and Soul will end up after the die ---Knowing the age of this earth will not help them after they die -----


Now AIG made a time line on their sight giving Problem issues with Old Earth theory

Problems with Other “Interpretations”

Problem/Theory	Gap Theory	Theistic Evolution	Day-Age Theory	Progressive Creation	Framework Hypothesis
Other “order of events” conflict
Places death before sin	X	X	X	X	X
Sun created before earth	X	X	X	X	X
Satan fell before end of creation week	X	X	X	X	X
Dinosaurs did not live with man	X	X	X	X	X
Noah's flood was not a worldwide catastrophe	X	X	X	X	X
All creation was not “very good”	X	X	X	X	X
Symbiotic relationships non-existent		X	X	X	X

My view
There Is only One person who knows how old the earth is -------and That is GOD ----so believers who need to know need to Pray and ask and wait for the Truthful answer -----digging and striving for Proof is stressful and gives way to Grey Hair ====in my view ---I say REST IN GOD and maintain inner peace -----


That is my Sermon for the Day -----

If we, unsafe, retreat from science, we leave the field open for secular voices to dominate and mislead.

The earth's age shapes how people trust the Bible. If Gen's treated as myth, why should anyone trust the Good News?

That’s why defending a young earth matters. It’s about showing that God’s Word's consistent. Reliable. True from the first verse.

Don’t you dare pit faith against science. C'mon, unsafe. Let faith accept all it can from science and then go beyond

 

[unsafe]

The earth's age shapes how people trust the Bible.

Well you can think that ---that is your choice but Trust in Scriptures comes from a Heart Change first and the age of the earth can't do that ----so your barking up a fruitless tree with that statement ----

 

[Luce NDs]

Does this illustrate where equivalence fails in a domain where choosen folk will be heavy handed to prove someone can be beaten down by will ... and equality will be destroyed as everythin (god) breaks up into a shattered people with varied tongues?

Assists the split ways and scattered shades ... no equanimity as it is beyond here ...

 

[Luce NDs]

Well you can think that ---that is your choice but Trust in Scriptures comes from a Heart Change first and the age of the earth can't do that ----so your barking up a fruitless tree with that statement ----

Thus timeless debate between one side of the dark reflection and the alternate ... curios as it may present itself ...

There are those that take exception in the black and white for central logic ... read into the medium! It may be a lengthy myth ... black's myth'd and somewhat shady as a lane ... green door? Such are the signs ...

 

[unsafe]

If Gen's treated as myth, why should anyone trust the Good News?

Because they have accepted God the Fathers Draw to have a heart change and when they read scripture God's Faith to believe in the scriptures is inbirthed in them -----

Jaebius--- your showing your spiritual ignorance here with these statements your making --sorry to say ---

 

[Luce NDs]

Because they have accepted God the Fathers Draw to have a heart change and when they read scripture God's Faith to believe in the scriptures is inbirthed in them -----

All one needs is some good Cons ... given the extent of the industrious Pros that want everything ... thus the entrance of potency into politicing ... i.e. religion on state position! Anything else is exceptional ... and beyond understanding of sectors that do not like intelligence or the sort ... a numbing force?

For the sake of the pedantic lords do not think ...

 

[unsafe]

Jaebius -----

God speaking here ---

Ezekiel 36:26: "I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh."

Earth age can't do that only God can

 

[Jaebius]

Because they have accepted God the Fathers Draw to have a heart change and when they read scripture God's Faith to believe in the scriptures is inbirthed in them -----

Jaebius--- your showing your spiritual ignorance here with these statements your making --sorry to say ---

To dismiss Gen as myth, unsafe, is to erode trust in all Scripture.

Faith comes by hearing God's Word as living, authoritative truth.

If we want people to experience genuine heart change, we must present God’s Word as reliable from the first verse.

People should trust in God. They should trust Him because He's the Creator. The Redeemer. The Sustainer who spoke the universe into existence and whose Word's trustworthy from beginning to end.

Anything less, unsafe, leads hearts into sentiment rather than change