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timothyu said:
Luke 16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.

James 1:27 Pure and undefiled religion before our God and Father is this: to care for orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

Romans 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

James 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.
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It is telling that you have pivoted to general verses about "the world" to avoid the scriptural tension I raised. No one is suggesting that you "justify yourself before men" or "conform to the world." The issue remains that the text you are quoting also commands diligence, planning, and the responsible use of talents.

By framing all human effort as "pollution," you are ignoring passages that command people to work and provide for their own, such as 1 Timothy 5:8 and 2 Thessalonians 3:10. Retreating into broad statements about "friendship with the world" seems a convenient way to bypass the calls to stewardship found in Proverbs and the Epistles. A person can be "transformed by the renewing of the mind" and still be expected to use that mind to work. It would be more consistent to engage with the full breadth of the text rather than cherry-picking verses to justify a lack of practical responsibility.
 
Pavlos Maros said:
It is telling that you have pivoted to general verses about "the world" to avoid the scriptural tension I raised. No one is suggesting that you "justify yourself before men" or "conform to the world." The issue remains that the text you are quoting also commands diligence, planning, and the responsible use of talents.

By framing all human effort as "pollution," you are ignoring passages that command people to work and provide for their own, such as 1 Timothy 5:8 and 2 Thessalonians 3:10. Retreating into broad statements about "friendship with the world" seems a convenient way to bypass the calls to stewardship found in Proverbs and the Epistles. A person can be "transformed by the renewing of the mind" and still be expected to use that mind to work. It would be more consistent to engage with the full breadth of the text rather than cherry-picking verses to justify a lack of practical responsibility.
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And to work (struggle) in collaboration; an item greatly feared by authority of the tyrannical nature ...

It is baffling crap ... explaining the Trouble with Schmit ...
 
Waterfall said:
But how do you even do that, personally and fully, in your life?
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By following (the two commandments which are contrary to the societal ways of mankind) , the third option to a world divided that convinces us there are only two sides.)

Announcing April 5, 2026, as a World Day of Prayer

How about we commemorate a day of renewal called Easter Sunday as a global day of prayer for world leaders of all kinds? Not prayer that they may find wisdom in following the traditional self-serving ways and systems of mankind, but that they may alternately find and follow the Will of God that serves both Him and each other as a whole. Throw in a p.s. that those who support the leaders and systems of our world may also change their ways and realize that we all have it backwards. Forward this in any way you wish to join a movement and to make it a yearly, if not daily event.
 
Pavlos Maros said:
By framing all human effort as "pollution," you are ignoring passages that command people to work and provide for their own,
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That is where the 2 commandments come in as a third option to the two provided within the systems of man and by way of the
Tree of Knowledge
 
timothyu said:
By following (the two commandments which are contrary to the societal ways of mankind) , the third option to a world divided that convinces us there are only two sides.)

Announcing April 5, 2026, as a World Day of Prayer

How about we commemorate a day of renewal called Easter Sunday as a global day of prayer for world leaders of all kinds? Not prayer that they may find wisdom in following the traditional self-serving ways and systems of mankind, but that they may alternately find and follow the Will of God that serves both Him and each other as a whole. Throw in a p.s. that those who support the leaders and systems of our world may also change their ways and realize that we all have it backwards. Forward this in any way you wish to join a movement and to make it a yearly, if not daily event.
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I think I misunderstood you, I thought you were talking more about people living their lives simply with minimal need for material worldly things......similar to living like the old order Mennonites and being more self sufficient and living more simplistic away from the world's influences (eg TV, computers, and more) as you follow those two commandments and put God first.
 
timothyu said:
Luke 16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.

James 1:27 Pure and undefiled religion before our God and Father is this: to care for orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

Romans 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

James 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.
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It is rather convenient to retreat into abstract metaphors about the "Tree of Knowledge" and "third options" now that your original points have been challenged. This appears to be a tactical shift to avoid the specific contradictions I raised from the text itself.

Claiming that practical effort is "pollution" or "enmity" is a significant reach. It suggests that the use of one's own faculties is somehow a spiritual failing, which conveniently allows you to ignore any passage that demands diligence or personal responsibility.

Vague references to "the two commandments" do not magically erase the specific calls to stewardship and hard work found in the Proverbs and the Epistles. A person can supposedly be "transformed by the renewing of the mind" and still be expected to use that mind to work. It would be more prudent to engage with the full breadth of the text rather than using mystical language to justify a lack of practical responsibility. It is also quite telling that you have addressed the group rather than answering my points directly.
 
timothyu said:
That is where the 2 commandments come in as a third option to the two provided within the systems of man and by way of the
Tree of Knowledge
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Your "third option" is a convenient bit of circular logic. You are using your own human reasoning to argue that human reasoning is a spiritual failing. By claiming that any practical effort is "from the Tree of Knowledge," you have essentially granted yourself a licence to ignore every part of the Bible that demands hard work or personal responsibility.

It is easy to claim "pure and undefiled religion" while dismissing the specific commands to be industrious and provide for one's own as "worldly pollution." If your "third option" requires you to ignore the Proverbs and the Epistles, then it is not a scriptural position; it is just a way to avoid being proved wrong. Addressing the group rather than my specific points only confirms that you have run out of actual arguments. You have failed on every post in this thread why do you continue to bother, it appears you are the devils advocate.
 
Pavlos Maros said:
Your "third option" is a convenient bit of circular logic. You are using your own human reasoning to argue that human reasoning is a spiritual failing. By claiming that any practical effort is "from the Tree of Knowledge," you have essentially granted yourself a licence to ignore every part of the Bible that demands hard work or personal responsibility.

It is easy to claim "pure and undefiled religion" while dismissing the specific commands to be industrious and provide for one's own as "worldly pollution." If your "third option" requires you to ignore the Proverbs and the Epistles, then it is not a scriptural position; it is just a way to avoid being proved wrong. Addressing the group rather than my specific points only confirms that you have run out of actual arguments. You have failed on every post in this thread why do you continue to bother, it appears you are the devils advocate.
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Vocational MS Take? That could get deep in the process of washing the item out ... once out ... what now?

Contemplate beyond borders ... extend oneself! Can you contemplate Eire? Why trumped up comments about fans and mills that grind away in deficit orders ... something missing? It is a complex solution ...
 
timothyu said:
Only if there is gain acquired by an unwilling loss of another.


I didn't know it was a contest.
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It is not a contest, but it is a matter of consistency. You have shifted from claiming that human systems and effort are "spiritual failings" to now suggesting they are only problematic if they cause "unwilling loss." That is a complete contradiction of your original point.

This constant moving of the goalposts confirms that your "third option" is nothing more than a convenient shield to avoid the actual text of the Bible. If you cannot maintain a coherent argument for more than two posts, it is clear that you are simply making up the rules as you go. You have failed to address the scriptural contradictions I raised, and your retreat into moral generalities only highlights the weakness of your position.
 
timothyu said:
No, there are two sides to the human coin... man's and God's
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Invoking the metaphor of a "human coin" does not resolve the contradiction; it simply avoids it. You previously labelled human effort and systems as "pollution" and "abomination" in the eyes of God. Now, you are attempting to treat them as two sides of a coin to excuse your own inconsistency.

If human systems are truly an "abomination," then you cannot simultaneously call for a global movement to work within them. You are trying to have it both ways: condemning the systems of man when it suits your narrative, and then treating them as a legitimate "side of the coin" when you want to propose a global initiative. It is not a profound theological distinction; it is a tactical retreat to escape the fact that your earlier arguments were incoherent.
 
If af'd, or af't was a front (masque) would it soon drop back given the opposition to knowledge? Thus binders are applied to the bottom lineage ...

This can soon get to a terse or pithy situation of few words and much poor understanding of some ancient words like porne ... in Greek allowing for cover of mystery in a cave or tunnel ... outer delight? Lacking in graphic content ... raw feelings?

The dash to get it over with is catastrophic ... tis fer slogging ...
 
timothyu said:
If humans continually thrive on their own wisdom and self-reliance and pride, why do they claim to follow God?
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Very good question ??????????---it blows my mind ----how people think that they are entitled to having access to God without any sacrifice in return -----live as they like --sin as they like --never acknowledge Him ----Trash His word ----and expect God to be there for them at their Beck and Call--again Mind Blowing -----
 
timothyu said:
There can be only one path.
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Amen to that -----there is only one truth ----all the rest are lies -----

The world's god ----Satan -----wants people to believe there are many paths to God ----and he has many believing his deception ---
 
unsafe said:
Amen to that -----there is only one truth ----all the rest are lies -----

The world's god ----Satan -----wants people to believe there are many paths to God ----and he has many believing his deception ---
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That sounds like quite a judgement ... I'd rather be humble about it and face the monster ...
 
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