ABORTION

[Ritafee]

My oldest child, who I gave up for adoption at birth, told me once that there had been periods in his life when he wished I had aborted him.

I imagine we have all had periods in our lives when we wished we had never been born and other times when we are so grateful to be alive. Not sure how that reflects on legalization of or criminalization of free choice. For you and your oldest child - why did you 'choose' adoption?

Hindsight is 20 20. I 'chose' abortion two times because it was the easiest most convenient choice afforded to me to get rid of a lifetime of accountability and consequences for my reckless and irresponsible choices prior to becoming pregnant in the first place. The plus side of that ... I do not have two grown children to accuse me one way or the other of whether or not I made the right or wrong choice for them.

The daughter that I chose to allow to be born ... that one she has accused me of many wrongs done to her because of my 'choices' around the parenting of her ... and she has lived long enough to forgive me for not being 'perfect' ... and she loves me anyway and knows that I love her ... more so now that she has a 16 year old of her own - to 'choose' how to parent and love.

Freedom of choice - comes with a lot of responsibility. Live and let live. Live and let die. Die and let live. To be or not to be. These are individual choices ... sometimes legal is wrong and illegal is right. Legalizing or criminalizing abortion - not a matter for the state to decide as far as I am concerned. How can you legalize or criminalize freedom of choice?

 

[Luce NDs]

My oldest child, who I gave up for adoption at birth, told me once that there had been periods in his life when he wished I had aborted him.

I know that feeling ... some ignore it and say it is just sensationalism and shouldn't think, feel, sense or intuit that way ... thus floods of walking dead ... because ... they don't as they are impressed than none cares.

No one really cares about senses? Most likely ... down here is a place to stash the fallout ... and those of us designated not to know ... catch it ...

Face it gives someone a reason to be ... even if it is psychopathic ... and they will project this onto the receiving objective!

The stuff one has to read into slowly and deeply ...

 

[Pinga]

The consequences of a lack of access to legal abortions, is access to illegal .

For the wealthy, they travel.
For the poor, they go to backwoods butchers. They die.

 

[Luce NDs]

Are there abortions of literature to get around authoritarian truths?

Demon -ish the thought!

 

[Ritafee]

The consequences of a lack of access to legal abortions, is access to illegal .

For the wealthy, they travel.
For the poor, they go to backwoods butchers. They die.

Legal Frontwoods Butcher's Clinical Workers Wanted ... Would you apply?

Abortionist, Don Sloan, described to abortion clinic workers how to put body parts back together to make sure everything was removed.

Following his instructions he commented:

• Want to do abortions? Pay the price. There is an old saying in medicine: if you want to work in the kitchen, you may have to break an egg. The stove gets hot. Prepare to get burned."

A study appearing in the Journal of Traumatic Stress found that 21% of abortion clinic workers showed PTSD symptoms

• because they were constantly witnessing violence.

These workers do everything from counseling women, to assisting with ultrasounds, to cleaning up the procedure rooms,

• to putting back together the body parts in the lab.

Trauma eventually begins to affect their everyday lives causing nightmares, inability to thrive in society, and resorting to alcohol and drugs.

Clinic workers do everything they can to survive the stress, even resorting to jokes about their work.

Norma McCorvey, the infamous Jane Roe in the Roe v. Wade case, told some - referring to putting the body parts back together, she said

• "if you ever want to humble a doctor, hide a leg so he thinks he has to go back in."

Norma McCorvey realized how she had been used and abused by the abortion lobby, she realized what working in an abortion clinic was doing to her as a person. She not only left, but she joined the pro-life movement and became one of the most vocal spokespersons opposing abortion.

The 'legal' abortionist doctors are leaving this profession as well, some after doing thousands of abortions.

They too became burned out, depressed, emotionally empty, with recurrent nightmares, and all the other symptoms of PTSD.

Perhaps the most well-known abortion doctor to leave the business was Dr. Bernard Nathanson who ran the largest abortion clinic in the country in New York City. Dr. Nathanson admitted to doing over 75,000 abortions before ...

• He too became a spokesperson for the pro-life movement, revealing many of the lies perpetrated to legalize abortion, the greed of the abortionists to pursue this lucrative business, and concluding that abortion is an act of deadly violence.

Abortions Often Have complications and Serious Long Term effects For Teens

Abortion Atrocities
Abortions Forced by Boyfriends
Planned Parenthood Sued for Selling Aborted Baby Body Parts
Did Students Dissect Brains From Aborted Babies?
Planned Parenthood Steam Cooks Aborted Babies and Dumps Them in Landfills
Grotesque Practices of Harvesting and Trafficking Baby Parts - Planned Parenthood
Planned Parenthood Caught Selling Baby Body Parts
Notorious Abortion Doctor Loses License Again
Have Late Term Abortions Allowed Parents to Rationalize Killing Newborns?
Teen Who Lost Parts of Both Legs in Failed Abortion Excels in High School Wrestling
Planned Parenthoods Expensive Botched Abortion
Sex Selection Abortion Reduces Female Baby Population
Late Term Abortions
Abortion Homicide
Abortion Clinic House Of Horrors
Abortion Doctor Charged With Murder
Gosnell Abortion Trial - Alive Babies Killed
Aborted Body Parts Kept in Freezer and Pet Food Containers

Beaten or Killed to Force Abortion
They Murdered Their Girlfriends Who Refused Abortion
8-Month Baby Stomped Out of Mother and Burned on Barbeque
He Used a Skewer to Cause His Girlfriend's Abortion
Execution Style Murder of Mother Who Refused an Abortion
Mother Brutally Murdered in Front of Her 3-Year-Old Daughter Because She Wouldn?t Have an Abortion
More Women and Children Beaten and Killed Because Mothers Refused to Have Abortion
Attempted Abortions By Beating the Pregnant Mothers
"Get Rid of the Baby Or I'll Kick It Out of You"
Man Tries To Kill Pregnant Wife By Punching Her In The Stomach
Couple On Trial For Beating Their Pregnant 17 Year Old Daughter
Abortion Drug Hidden in Pancakes Brings Murder Charge
Florida Man Given Prison Term for Causing His Girlfriend's Abortion
Domestic Violence Connected To Abortion
Girlfriend Executed Because She Refused To Have An Abortion
Woman Held Prisoner In Forced Abortion
Man Attempted To Abort Baby By Poisoning Pregnant Girlfriend
Man Threatens To Cut The Baby Out Of His Ex-Girlfriends Stomach
In Pennsylvania a mother allegedly attacks her own pregnant daughter for refusing to have an abortion
Boyfriend Hires A Hitman To Kill His Girlfriend For Refusing To Have An Abortion
Fourteen-year-old Who Refused Abortion Was Killed and Set On Fire
Woman Was Tricked By Her Boyfriend Into Taking An Abortion Causing Drug

Abortion In The News - Trending Topics Dealing With Pregnancy and Abortion

 

[Pinga]

I am not sure what you are getting at it Rita Fee. Would it be possible for you to add some of your own words?
*********************************

My post was stating that women will have abortions and people will do abortions.
It is a question of legal or illegal.
If illegal , it may take longer to get, so more probability of damage for the woman.

 

[Ritafee]

I am not sure what you are getting at it Rita Fee. Would it be possible for you to add some of your own words?*********************************
My post was stating that women will have abortions and people will do abortions.
It is a question of legal or illegal.
If illegal , it may take longer to get, so more probability of damage for the woman.

Legal Frontwoods Butcher's Clinical Workers Wanted ... Would you apply?

Those were my own words. Would you take a legal job as an abortionist or assist in performing abortions?

I have also related my personal experience with abortion as a teenager - - in my own words.

Now I am looking at the Abortion issue from the 'legal industry' perspective.

The legitimized abortion industry - according to the articles that I have quoted - does not seem to have changed the world for the better.

Sticking to your illegal backwoods butcher one liner scenario and ignoring the legal frontwoods butcher reality ... your choice.

My choice ... to offer up and listen to more than one side of the story. And this story is getting more and more bizarre by the day ...

The New York state Legislature passed one of the most sweeping abortion expansions in the country to mark the Roe and Doe U.S. Supreme Court decisions, which struck down abortion restrictions nationwide. To “celebrate” his signing the so-called Reproductive Health Act into law, Gov. Andrew Cuomo ordered multiple landmarks be set alight in pink, including One World Trade Center, presumably to honor (post-natal) women.

New York has long rejected the humanity of the unborn. Our abortion laws were loosened three years before Roe. But this law, which effectively expands abortion-on-demand from 24 weeks to birth, thanks to the new, ambiguous “health” exception for late-term abortions; allows non-doctors — including nurse practitioners, physician assistants, and midwives — to perform abortions; moves all abortion — including forced miscarriages — from the penal law to the public health law; declares abortion a “fundamental right,” imperiling conscience protections; and repeals protections for children born alive during botched abortions, sets the bar for disrespecting human life lower than ever before.

 

[Ritafee]

Abortion. Every woman’s right? A fundamental freedom? Or a reflection that we have not met the needs of women?

Feminists for Life is dedicated to systematically eliminating the root causes that drive women to abortion — primarily, the lack of practical resources and support — through holistic, woman-centered solutions. Women deserve better than abortion.

No woman should be forced to choose between sacrificing her education or career plans and suffering through a humiliating, invasive procedure and sacrificing her child. We refuse to choose®.

Abortion represents a failure to listen and respond to the unmet needs of women. Why perpetuate failure?

Pro-life feminists recognize abortion as a symptom of, not a solution to, the continuing struggles women face in the workplace, on campus, at home, and in the world at large.

Feminists for Life is a renaissance of the original American feminism. Like Susan B. Anthony and other early American suffragists, today’s pro-life feminists envision a better world in which no woman would be driven by desperation to abortion:

• A world in which pregnancy, motherhood, and birthmotherhood are accepted and supported.

• Campuses and workplaces that support mothers in practical ways and do not force them to choose between their education or career plans and their children.

• A society that supports the role of mothers, values the role of fathers, and helps parents provide both financial and emotional support for their children.

• A culture in which parents are respected, whether they decide to stay at home or return to work.

“Sweeter even than to have had the joy of caring for children of my own has it been to me to help bring about a better state of things for mothers generally, so that their unborn little ones could not be willed away from them.” – Susan B. Anthony

“Women Deserve Better” means before and after birth.

 

[DaisyJane]

Some of the ideas of feminists for life are interesting. I do note that the above shared bullet points do not include things like comprehensive sexual health education, free and easy access to contraception, clear education regarding safe and consensual sex, and so on. It isn't enough to create a society that supports motherhood - though I agree that is very important. We also need a society that acknowledges the sexual empowerment of women and ensures that women have the right to govern their sex lives without interference. This includes ensuring women have the resources to control when they become mothers, or not.

 

[Pinga]

I wouldn't take a job in any medical profession. I am not good at that kind of work. If; however, there was no one else, and it was just me, or no abortions happening, then, yes, I would take the job.

i see the banning of legal abortions as a horrendous decision.
I do see the addition of items to teach youth about pregnancy, to provide free & easy access to birth control for all, and sex education as ways to reduce rates of abortion.

What I find atrocious is men thinking that they have a right to say to women what to do with their bodies -- or more importantly, what not to do.

 

[DaisyJane]

Would I work in an abortion clinic. Yes, I would.

I agree with Pinga that the banning of abortions will never rid the world of abortions. It will only make people who are uncomfortable with abortion and/or the sexual empowerment of women feel better while forcing vulnerable women into dangerous situations.

I also agree that men do not have a place in the reproductive decision making of a woman unless invited into that conversation.

 

[Ritafee]

What in the world do you mean by the sexual empowerment of women? And ... men do not have a place in the reproductive decision making of a woman unless invited into that conversation? Should that conversation take place before a woman gets impregnated by a man or after?

 

[DaisyJane]

What do you think I mean by sexual empowerment of women? Women control when they have sex and with whom. Women decide what birth control is used and when it isn't used. While these seem obvious, many women for many reasons, do not yet have this level of influence on their sexual lives and/or bodies. Many women, even women in relationships, do not have autonomy over their bodies and reproductive health because of a misogynystic and patriarchal world that often strives to control sexual behaviour.

And ultimately a women decides what happens to her body. I agree that ideally the father is part of that conversation. But in the end it is the women's right to include the man in the conversation or not. If she chooses not to I would imagine there might be a very good reason.

 

[Ritafee]

Sexual empowerment of men then could read like this ...

Men control when they have sex and with whom. Men decide what birth control is used and when it isn't used. While these seem obvious, many men for many reasons, do not yet have this level of influence on their sexual lives and/or bodies. Many men, even men in relationships, do not have autonomy over their bodies and reproductive health because of a misandrous or feminist world that often strives to control their sexual behaviour.

And ultimately a man decides what happens to his body (sperm). I agree that ideally the mother is part of that conversation. But in the end it is the men's right to include the woman in the conversation or not. If he chooses not to I would imagine there might be a very good reason.

 

[BetteTheRed]

Sexual empowerment of men then could read like this ...

Men control when they have sex and with whom. Men decide what birth control is used and when it isn't used. While these seem obvious, many men for many reasons, do not yet have this level of influence on their sexual lives and/or bodies. Many men, even men in relationships, do not have autonomy over their bodies and reproductive health because of a misandrous or feminist world that often strives to control their sexual behaviour.

And ultimately a man decides what happens to his body (sperm). I agree that ideally the mother is part of that conversation. But in the end it is the men's right to include the woman in the conversation or not. If he chooses not to I would imagine there might be a very good reason.

Doesn't really work as a metaphor. For better or worse, sperm is an external activity, while eggs are more internal. And we need to 'hatch' them inside. I imagine this could all change, but for now, no.

 

[Ritafee]

This is a very long article, the longest ever written on The Futurist. As it is a guide to the next decade of social, political, and sexual strife, it is not meant to be read in one shot but rather digested slowly over an extended period, with all supporting links read as well. As the months and years of this decade progress, this article will seem all the more prophetic.

Executive Summary : The Western World has quietly become a civilization that has tainted the interaction between men and women, where the state forcibly transfers resources from men to women creating various perverse incentives for otherwise good women to inflict great harm onto their own families, and where male nature is vilified but female nature is celebrated. This is unfair to both genders, and is a recipe for a rapid civilizational decline and displacement, the costs of which will ultimately be borne by a subsequent generation of innocent women, rather than men, as soon as 2020.

Now, the basic premise of this article is that men and women are equally valuable, but have different strengths and weaknesses, and different priorities. A society is strongest when men and women have roles that are complementary to each other, rather than of an adverserial nature. Furthermore, when one gender (either one) is mistreated, the other ends up becoming disenfranchised as well. If you disagree with this premise, you may not wish to read further.

The Misandry Bubble

 

[DaisyJane]

Men control when they have sex and with whom. Men decide what birth control is used and when it isn't used

Like Bette, I don't see the translation working. While there are obvious exceptions, historically men HAVE been the ones who have greater power in terms of sexual health - both in terms of within intimate relationships, but more significantly within the broader context such as being the ones who set policy, manage the justice system, control health care, control finances, establish religious norms, and so on. While things are certainly shifting, and that is a good thing, there is lots of implicit and explicit baggage around sexual power dynamics that shift the balance of power toward men.

The current issues in the Catholic church provides an excellent illustration of men in control of sexual lives. Men decide when sex is permissible, and when it isn't, what kind of contraception can be practiced, and when, but even more worryingly, men decide who is held accountable and/or punished when those norms are violated (literally).

And ultimately a man decides what happens to his body (sperm). I agree that ideally the mother is part of that conversation. But in the end it is the men's right to include the woman in the conversation or not. If he chooses not to I would imagine there might be a very good reason.

Ideally the women is part of that conversation? Really? If she isn't then what you describe is starting to dance dangerously close to sexual assault and rape. Another sadly common fact of life for women.

 

[Ritafee]

1983: A Gallup poll finds that 72 per cent of Canadians think the decision about having an abortion should be decided between a woman and her doctor, without government intervention.

Since the existing criminal law against abortion was struck down in 1988, abortion in Canada is treated like any other medical procedure — which is to say it's governed by medical standards and not by political will.

The surgical procedure alternative, a medical abortion or "the abortion pill," is sometimes not covered by provincial healthcare.

Mifegymiso, the first approved abortion pill. The price of $300-450, if not covered by provincial health plans is a big barrier.

Abortion services have been deemed "medically required" by all provinces and territories.

This means that all abortions must be publicly funded, regardless of where they are performed, in hospitals or clinics.

Abortion clinics fall under the category of "hospitals" in the Canada Health Act because they deliver a medically-required hospital service.

Private clinics delivering a medically required service normally provided at hospitals must have that service fully funded by Medicare.

The difference between hospital care and private clinic care is moot, since it no longer results in "two-tier" medicine.

Private abortion clinics can become fully integrated into our public healthcare system simply by becoming publicly-funded.

Abortion rights advocates, are looking to combat the anti-abortion "Pregnancy Crisis Centres, which often purport to be politically neutral

• but actually try to discourage women against abortions, sometimes working with federal funding.

So ... In Canada ... as far as I can tell ... abortion is politically funded ... counseling against abortion is not ?

 

[Ritafee]

Trump has staked his position that late term abortions are going to end, while some states are trying to beat him to the punch by legalizing infanticide. Legalizing killing even after birth.(which is already common, just not legal)

Trump will not be able to end late term abortions by criminalizing them.
Nothing that is criminalized by man-made laws has succeeded in stopping man made 'criminals'.

New York has long rejected the humanity of the unborn. Our abortion laws were loosened three years before Roe. But this law, which effectively expands abortion-on-demand from 24 weeks to birth, thanks to the new, ambiguous “health” exception for late-term abortions; allows non-doctors — including nurse practitioners, physician assistants, and midwives — to perform abortions; moves all abortion — including forced miscarriages — from the penal law to the public health law; declares abortion a “fundamental right,” imperiling conscience protections; and repeals protections for children born alive during botched abortions, sets the bar for disrespecting human life lower than ever before.

State Legitimized or not ... Man (male & female) made in the image of their creator ... have free will to obey or not obey according to their own conscience.

I do think the decision about having an abortion should be decided between a willing woman and her willing provider of such a service, without any need for government intervention.

However, being that there are powers and principalities pretending authority on such matters here on earth ... criminalize nothing ... is my 'legal' perspective. I can 'afford' to make mistakes and be accountable to the restorative and merciful justice I expect from my 'higher power' - I cannot afford to break the laws of the land and be accountable to a penal system that distributes monetary justice according to your ability to pay up front to absolve you of your 'criminal' record on this planet.

With regards to who will win ...

Innocent babies will always find favor with the 'master of the universe' whether they are aborted or not.

 

[Ritafee]

What I find atrocious is men thinking that they have a right to say to women what to do with their bodies -- or more importantly, what not to do.

Again ... it works both ways does it not? Do women have a right to tell men what to do or not to do with their bodies? Does anyone have authority over anyone elses's body? My body my choice ... does this only apply in sexual/reproductive acts choice? Should it be mandated by legal authority or individual freedom of choice?