A preemptive counter to "(1) The Problem of Prayer: The Biblical Principles on How to Make Your Prayer Life Effective."

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Prayer changes us not God. Opening up about our worries, fears and hopes releases anxieties and can often help us to figure out how to help others and ourselves. Our friends may offer opinions, criticism, advice but God listens. One can say the most intimate things without fear or condemnation but alone with the spiritual part of us that is God, listening.....answers can become more apparent.

Prayer can offer relief, but it's likely due to psychological processes, like meditation. The peace or clarity that follows usually comes from introspection and self-reflection, not a higher power. The answers are all in your mind.
 
Please define what you mean by effective
Has god been proven yet. Because I don't consider it effective. I've said this three times now. Once god is proven then we can discuss how effective it is and what effective means. However, for now, I would assume it is very effective for a religious adherent.
 
Prayer can offer relief, but it's likely due to psychological processes, like meditation. The peace or clarity that follows usually comes from introspection and self-reflection, not a higher power. The answers are all in your mind.
I would agree except some answers I wonder how I would arrive at that conclusion, because it's too hard to go there. Like forgiveness or grace or acceptance. I wouldn't want to work that hard sometimes.
And I don't think being religious is mandatory.
 
Some powers will even use their prayer to physically remove the source of distasteful things as the comprehension of consequence!

Then others just darkly accept there are no consequences and just close their eyes to such vision ... is there a black out or a white washing? All gone under the bridge in a passionate instants ... instance?
 
I would agree except some answers I wonder how I would arrive at that conclusion, because it's too hard to go there. Like forgiveness or grace or acceptance. I wouldn't want to work that hard sometimes.
And I don't think being religious is mandatory.

Thus the examination goes on and on as an ultimate etude ... what the dark mystery utilized to keep the children occupied ... a democratic perspective? Democratease ...

Expect concrete and staunching words ... like a Bung in the wound caused by virtue ... truth is tough!
 
I would agree except some answers I wonder how I would arrive at that conclusion, because it's too hard to go there. Like forgiveness or grace or acceptance. I wouldn't want to work that hard sometimes.
And I don't think being religious is mandatory.
I know of nobody other than religious adherents who pray. But perhaps I've led a sheltered life.
 
I believe that God's accessible to everyone.
I agree Jae that God is accessible for all people ----but all people do not want to be accessible to God ---- it is humans who don't want God in their lives ------Who Rebel and disobey out of their own free will that God has given them ------God Agape's all people but it is humankind who Hate---mock and reject God -----

As far as Prayer goes -----unfortunately Sin and Iniquity lies as a barrier for humans to access God for anything and that includes Prayer -----Preach truth Jae ---don't give humans false hope ----God is Holy and cannot entertain sin or look upon Iniquity and will not answer unrighteous prayers as He clearly states in His word ----Don't sugar coat scripture -----it is bad for the soul ---this scripture still stands today ----God doesn't change His Mind back and forth and Scripture clearly says He does not Show Favoritism ---so if he does any of theses 2 things --he would be a liar ----

Now that being said God is God and can and does use unbelievers to bring about His plan to do His Will ---which is still playing out today -----

Even Born again Christians can block their Prayers from God hearing by praying with wrong motive ----and not verbally denouncing their sin when they miss the mark ------same as allowing Doubt --Fear ---worry ----anxiety --and anger ---to invade our thought life -----all blocks our prayers from being heard and answered -----


You should read all -of scripture below --I just posted some of it

Why should People who Rebel and Sin against God even think they should have their Prayers answered ----they don't give God the time of day yet expect God to be at their Beck and call ----this just baffles my Mind ---ego at play here in my view ---

-Isaiah 59 NIV

Sin, Confession and Redemption​

59 Surely the arm of the Lord is not too short to save,
nor his ear too dull to hear.


2 But your iniquities have separated
you from your God;
your sins have hidden his face from you,
so that he will not hear.


3 For your hands are stained with blood,
your fingers with guilt.
Your lips have spoken falsely,
and your tongue mutters wicked things.


4 No one calls for justice;
no one pleads a case with integrity.
They rely on empty arguments, they utter lies;
they conceive trouble and give birth to evil.

5 They hatch the eggs of vipers
and spin a spider’s web.
Whoever eats their eggs will die,
and when one is broken, an adder is hatched.

6 Their cobwebs are useless for clothing;
they cannot cover themselves with what they make.
Their deeds are evil deeds,
and acts of violence are in their hands.

7 Their feet rush into sin;
they are swift to shed innocent blood.
They pursue evil schemes;
acts of violence mark their ways.

8 The way of peace they do not know;
there is no justice in their paths.
They have turned them into crooked roads;
no one who walks along them will know peace.
 
Face it God is out there ... beyond us, space and time that's the persona of infinite! Some cram it in a stone box, declaring it reality when it hasn't gotten us far ...
 
Has god been proven yet. Because I don't consider it effective. I've said this three times now. Once god is proven then we can discuss how effective it is and what effective means. However, for now, I would assume it is very effective for a religious adherent.
In what way is it effective for a religious adherent, would you say?

I know you have answered three times. I have probably tried asking three times as well. Who's counting?

Often prayer is evaluated by outcome. Praying for healing and later throwing away the crutches
Praying for prosperity and later winning the lottery.
I would actually argue that such outcomes are coincidence.

As a person of faith, I might say prayer is effective when it brings me peace. (Impossibly subjective, I realize.)
 
As far as Prayer goes -----unfortunately Sin and Iniquity lies as a barrier for humans to access God for anything and that includes Prayer -----Preach truth Jae ---don't give humans false hope ----God is Holy and cannot entertain sin
Good grief, then God listens to no one.....
 
I agree Jae that God is accessible for all people ----but all people do not want to be accessible to God ---- it is humans who don't want God in their lives ------Who Rebel and disobey out of their own free will that God has given them ------God Agape's all people but it is humankind who Hate---mock and reject God -----

As far as Prayer goes -----unfortunately Sin and Iniquity lies as a barrier for humans to access God for anything and that includes Prayer -----Preach truth Jae ---don't give humans false hope ----God is Holy and cannot entertain sin or look upon Iniquity and will not answer unrighteous prayers as He clearly states in His word ----Don't sugar coat scripture -----it is bad for the soul ---this scripture still stands today ----God doesn't change His Mind back and forth and Scripture clearly says He does not Show Favoritism ---so if he does any of theses 2 things --he would be a liar ----

Now that being said God is God and can and does use unbelievers to bring about His plan to do His Will ---which is still playing out today -----

Even Born again Christians can block their Prayers from God hearing by praying with wrong motive ----and not verbally denouncing their sin when they miss the mark ------same as allowing Doubt --Fear ---worry ----anxiety --and anger ---to invade our thought life -----all blocks our prayers from being heard and answered -----


You should read all -of scripture below --I just posted some of it

Why should People who Rebel and Sin against God even think they should have their Prayers answered ----they don't give God the time of day yet expect God to be at their Beck and call ----this just baffles my Mind ---ego at play here in my view ---

-Isaiah 59 NIV

Sin, Confession and Redemption​

59 Surely the arm of the Lord is not too short to save,
nor his ear too dull to hear.


2 But your iniquities have separated
you from your God;
your sins have hidden his face from you,
so that he will not hear.


3 For your hands are stained with blood,
your fingers with guilt.
Your lips have spoken falsely,
and your tongue mutters wicked things.


4 No one calls for justice;
no one pleads a case with integrity.
They rely on empty arguments, they utter lies;
they conceive trouble and give birth to evil.

5 They hatch the eggs of vipers
and spin a spider’s web.
Whoever eats their eggs will die,
and when one is broken, an adder is hatched.

6 Their cobwebs are useless for clothing;
they cannot cover themselves with what they make.
Their deeds are evil deeds,
and acts of violence are in their hands.

7 Their feet rush into sin;
they are swift to shed innocent blood.
They pursue evil schemes;
acts of violence mark their ways.

8 The way of peace they do not know;
there is no justice in their paths.
They have turned them into crooked roads;
no one who walks along them will know peace.
You've some solid points there, unsafe. We humans are a bit stubborn, aren't we.

Some folks just don't want to show up at the best party ever given, even though they've been invited. The Good News is that God's love is a never-ending dance floor, always ready for us to step back on and boogie with him!

Prayer's such a powerful way to connect with God. Let's not forget that He's full of grace and mercy. He's always there, ready to forgive us and welcome us back with open arms. He's the ultimate dance partner who never gives up on us.

So, let's keep our hearts open, our prayers sincere, and our feet ready to dance with God. And remember, his love's always there, waiting for us to celebrate
 
In what way is it effective for a religious adherent, would you say?
Probably, because they believe it works.
Often prayer is evaluated by outcome. Praying for healing and later throwing away the crutches
Praying for prosperity and later winning the lottery.
I would actually argue that such outcomes are coincidence.
Most definitely.
As a person of faith, I might say prayer is effective when it brings me peace. (Impossibly subjective, I realize.)
Exactly, hence why it can't be controlled it means different things to different believers.
 
As a person of faith, I might say prayer is effective when it brings me peace. (Impossibly subjective, I realize.)
Could be evaluated with some kind of psychological testing, perhaps. Do before and after tests to see if there's change. Have a control group who don't pray to compare with. That sort of thing.

I suppose if you wanted to go harder, then functional MRI scans. I know that's been done with meditation, including by noted atheist Sam Harris for his doctoral thesis. He does accept that prayer has psychological and neurological effects but doesn't attribute those to "God", just our body's reaction to being in a meditative state.
 
You've some solid points there, unsafe. We humans are a bit stubborn, aren't we.
Sorry Jae the points in the Scripture are not my Points --they are God's ----I just believe what the Scripture Says about Prayer ----


Good grief, then God listens to no one.....
That is false ---God Listens to His Children who have accepted His Son into their hearts -----the righteous have their Sins forgiven ---Believers will still sin and should verbally acknowledge that sin for their own sake not because that sin is not forgiven by God ----by personally confessing the sin we remind ourselves that we need to not let that Mistake make us backslide ----we need to make sure we get back on the right road immediately and stay away from sin as much as possible calling on God's Grace to keep us free from sin -----

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Although Pavlos doesn't seem to realize it, this excellent thread is precisely the type of response (1) was intended to inspire.
I intended (1)-(10) to spark new threads even if their take differed from my suggestions.
 
We don't have to "call" for grace, it's offered freely....no conditions.
Again False ---but Nice try -----Grace is a person--- God is a person Full of Grace --Grace is not a thing or Doctrine ---

God's Common Grace is given to all people --God who is Full of Grace causes the rain to fall on the unjust and the just ----when you open your eyes in the Morning that is God's common Grace to all ----

Jesus is Grace ----john 1:17

Amplified Bible
For the Law was given through Moses, but grace [the unearned, undeserved favor of God] and truth came through Jesus Christ.

If you don't accept Jesus as your Lord and Saviour who is full of Grace then you can't call on Grace because you don't have Jesus to call on -----your SOL


Jesus is Saving Grace and does have a condition attached to receiving His Grace ----

IF YOU ---receive Jesus you have Grace to call on ---IF you Reject Jesus then you don't have Grace to call on -----

this word------ If ---makes it a condition ----


Strong's Concordance
ei: forasmuch as, if, that
Original Word: εἰ
Part of Speech: Conditional Particle Or Conjunction

Much to grasp and understand about what Grace is and isn't -----
 
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