“God is the pain of the fear of death.”

[WhyCzar]

The thread title is a quote from one of the characters (Kirillov) in Dostoevsky’s book titled Devils.

Atheism, nihilism, and radical skepticism were spreading rapidly among Russian intellectuals at the time of it's writing.

At one point Krillov sits calmly drinking tea while explaining his philosophical theory of suicide.

Kirillov suggests two things stop most people from killing themselves.

The first is fear of pain. Even when a method of death would likely be painless, people still imagine suffering and pull back.

The second is fear of what comes after death.

Kirillov argues that human beings are enslaved by this fear.

He expresses it in this way: “God is the pain of the fear of death.”

The idea of God exists largely because people are terrified of dying?

But on the other hand:

When Dostoevsky was taken to Siberia as a political prisoner in 1850, a woman named Natalya Fonvizina gave him a copy of the New Testament.

It was the only book prisoners were allowed to keep.

It sustained him through years of hardship and led him to faith.

 

[Mendalla]

I think this is true to an extent. However, in my personal experience, I have also known people who found God a comfort, who could face death more easily because they believed there was something waiting after. Which fits with "The idea of God exists largely because people are terrified of dying" for sure but less easily with “God is the pain of the fear of death.” It suggests something more like "God is the Comfort beyond the fear of death." Still suggests that belief in God is about how we deal with Death, but puts God as the antidote to fear of death rather than the "pain" the comes from that fear. Though maybe that's what the sentence means. I'm a bit unclear on that, perhaps.

I tend to an Epicurean view of death myself. Death is the release from the suffering we have in life. It's the end and not to be feared, but accepted and even embraced. Yes, it's sad because we are separated from those around us, but that is for those around us to deal with. We have moved on.

 

[Luce NDs]

Might it have been the sense of the very enlightenment of what fear does to us ... sets us off from everything that someone once declared that we should know ... in the statement: "teach my children!"

Under the power (head) of belief we are in control (avarice) we assume some things way too early for our state of knowledge allows! Then we gain appreciation of just how little we know of the greater power (head). It is something that many don't even care to get their head about ... and thus fail to get to that goal ... as we failed the directive held in I Thessaloneans 5:21 while withholding the bit we were given.

Some even go as far to say I don't care about all those people forming that body that in consequence doesn't become your friend ... and thus they are as the expression goes about setting someone apart from the rest (sanction) when they might be set within some emptied space that was meant to be protective until some proper development ...

This came up in a discussion today about a special friend that recently passed and his feelings about illumination as a physical activity or something that as mortals we couldn't get our head about ... because what was ahead of us is an immortal expression ...

Some of us referred to this as the subject of Christ, others the object of the lamb while in the media it was simple transferrance of something critically imperitive ... it seems that there are more stories of thei experience than one can retain down here outside the sacre blue ... sometimes regarded and Mon Dieu! There is no way some folk can get this in their head ... no stretch whatsoever!

Then it is suggested that somewhere in time this thing is just upended ... like some kind of alphabet ... and the entire expression alters ...

You might get a hint of this if working with different letters ... ancient Syrilliac for instants ...

I do know people that would react badly ... maybe hit you with a stick ... and thus struck!

The stuff we don't know certainly overwhelms what we might believe that we know but don't ... and thus maybe explains our sanctioning that we believed was something else ... so we'd experience being without for a time. Then the return to the gut and the sacrial zone ... a gutsy return?

 

[unsafe]

It was never in God's plan for people to die ----We are first and foremost spirit beings ---we have a soul ----our Spirit and soul are housed in this Physical body which was made from the dust of the Ground --

God made this planet to house His beloved Human creation to live until He was ready to remove what He created Himself --

There was for God's Human Creation Adam then Eve ----no death ---only long life ---- no pain ---no suffering --no tears ---no separation --no poor ---no poverty ----no sickness --no disease ----no weakness and no hunger----no envy ---no shame ----no evil in the Garden of Eden that housed God's first Human creation -----there was only Bliss -----health ---wellness --peace --Joy --happiness and Blessings ---and personal fellowship with God ---in the beginning -----

There is nothing to fear in death if you submit yourself to God -----

The Fear of death comes from us Humans ourselves -----Fear of the UNKNOWN -and fear of Separation from loved ones here -----Fear of Self disappearing ------Fear of loss of control ----not understanding that your Spirit and Soul don't Die Ever ---it is only the Body that dies and decays and remains here ---

When Dostoevsky was taken to Siberia as a political prisoner in 1850, a woman named Natalya Fonvizina gave him a copy of the New Testament.

It was the only book prisoners were allowed to keep.

It sustained him through years of hardship and led him to faith.

Fyodor Dostoevsky died on February 9, 1881 (January 28 in the old Russian calendar) at the age of 59 in Saint Petersburg, Russia

So if this man truly came to and accepted True Faith in Jesus Christ -----then his Spirit and Soul are with God in Heaven -and he realizes that God is not the pain of the fear of Death in people ---it is their own fear that is the pain of death -----

God IS Agape ----and Agape drives out the pain of the fear of death -----it doesn't harbour it --

For True Believers Death is just a Blissful transition -----from this wicked world to a Peaceful Garden ----

the Scriptures describe both places where your Spirit and Soul goes after death -----so it should not Shock anyone to know where they will reside when they leave this world ----and we pick our place ----

Publilius Syrus Quote:

“The fear of death is more to be feared, than death itself.”​

 

[WhyCzar]

There is nothing to fear in death if you submit yourself to God

Is there anything to fear in death if you don't submit yourself to God?

 

[Mendalla]

It was never in God's plan for people to die ----We are first and foremost spirit beings ---we have a soul ----our Spirit and soul are housed in this Physical body which was made from the dust of the Ground --

This is one of the most damaging Greek ideas to make its way into Christian thought (yes, Plato and others the idea that the physical world is a poor reflection of a higher reality long before Jesus even lived). Why damaging? It devalues and denigrates the physical world, which is why we have so many Christians who care little for the Earth. They think it doesn't matter.. Heaven, or a new remade Earth, is what they are living for. Pollute the waters? Kill off whole species? f*** around with nature? As long as they get into Heaven, they don't give a s**t about the material world.

A view that sees our physical existence as integral to our being, vital to our existence is a far healthier one for the world and for us. And that includes accepting that our life is finite, something we share with all other beings. Science shows this to be true (in that it is an observation that can be easily replicated). Many other religions and philosophies accept it to be true.

Fortunately, there are schools of Christian thought that have broken with this sorry legacy of Greek thought and do embrace the idea that we are part of a vital, important physical reality and that metaphysics needs to support that connection, not dismiss or deny it. Too bad the idea lingers in so many others.

 

[unsafe]

Is there anything to fear in death if you don't submit yourself to God?

I would say to your Question here

Fear Jesus when your Spirit Bows before Him to accept your own Deserved Judgment for not submitting to Him ----

 

[WhyCzar]

I tend to an Epicurean view of death myself.

Death is “nothing to us,” because when it is present we no longer exist to experience it. - Epicurus

Epicurus is talking about being dead (the state of non-existence), not the process of dying.

I tend not to fear being dead as much as the process of dying.

I fear that it might involve a lot of pain and a loss of autonomy.

I have no fear of dying without submission to a judgmental God.

 

[WhyCzar]

Fear Jesus when your Spirit Bows before Him to accept your own Deserved Judgment for not submitting to Him

What does that even mean?

 

[unsafe]

Mendalla​

Did you know that Some Christians think that Plato may have made a Prophetic statement about the coming crucifixion of Jesus in his Book ----

I personally don't think that ----if you research it --it says this

Got this from Google
Plato—speaking through the character Glaucon—constructed a philosophical scenario to explore what true justice is versus the mere appearance of justice

From Facebook
In 375 BC, the philosopher Plato may have predicted the crucifixion of Jesus Christ.
“The perfectly just man will be considered unjust, while the unjust will appear just. […] The just man will be scourged, tortured, chained, his eyes will be burned out, and, after suffering all evils, he will be crucified.”
- Plato (The Republic Book II, 361e–362a)

 

[Luce NDs]

Then there is the possibility of a flip in our desire to be stupid about death when we are alive ... and we would be categorized as something else while among the living ... and guided not to think about much ... why? Because someone directed us that knowledge was evil ... can you comprehend following such a leader?

Then there are those that say attempting to avoid sickness and mental deficiencies are crazy ... so obviously I am crazy to be in this group ...

Such levels of intelligence draw people like Lenard Cohen to write about under-concerns as subtle song about a beautiful mind that is beyond the body of humanity as yet ...

Do not speak of clearer intelligence, but in code, because those that despise intellect will terrorize ... I find they come out after dark as dreams of the other kind ... virtual unseen!

There is even a faction that interprets d' ath as a following brighter day after the first part goes down in flames ... burning up like a dragon in love with its hind part ... a great tale? Thus the base of the reptilian brain is mythologized because few accept truth ... a myth was necessary ... once such an Eire takes flight ... it'll never become sanctimonious ... that hollower than thou ... emotionally draining!

Myself I'll go for the friend that is abstract as in reality people are mostly vicious and brutal ... just look about and you may wish to regress to a state of nothing as you are embarrassed to live in such state ...

It is a great pastime to write about impossible situations ... assists in getting through a life in the ruagh ... the way of ugh-lying dark shadows on the wall of the dwelling? There were no proper mire ... as everything was a bit fouled from a belching earth ...

Contemplating intellect and its opposed power is a fascinating volition ... in short quite a Job as it is hard to accept ... thus erupting pools ... palpitating waters? People actually believe in flying fertilizer when it is actually the bird's fault ...

If nothing else ... somewhat amusing to fall back and observe from beyond, you know out there! Arms length may be secure ... if draped somewhere ... grabbing for a ripe Khan ... like word play to mess up as in scrabble ... ever see the likes of letters with value?

 

[unsafe]

What does that even mean?

When you personally experience it ===you will know what it means in a hurry -----if your not saved ---

 

[Luce NDs]

Mendalla​

Did you know that Some Christians think that Plato may have made a Prophetic statement about the coming crucifixion of Jesus in his Book ----

I personally don't think that ----if you research it --it says this

Got this from Google
Plato—speaking through the character Glaucon—constructed a philosophical scenario to explore what true justice is versus the mere appearance of justice
From Facebook
In 375 BC, the philosopher Plato may have predicted the crucifixion of Jesus Christ.
“The perfectly just man will be considered unjust, while the unjust will appear just. […] The just man will be scourged, tortured, chained, his eyes will be burned out, and, after suffering all evils, he will be crucified.”
- Plato (The Republic Book II, 361e–362a)

You know if you hang around a bit the sun will go down and strange activities may be initiated when you can't see. This was profligate prior to the creation of lamps ... as secondary, b' lights!

 

[Mendalla]

Did you know that Some Christians think that Plato may have made a Prophetic statement about the coming crucifixion of Jesus in his Book ----

Christians have an irritating propensity for claiming classical literature a Christian prophecy even when there is no basis for doing so. Glad to hear you don't subscribe to this one.

Another example is Virgil's Fourth Eclogue, which references a "golden child". Christians tried to claim the "golden child" as being a prophecy of Christ. However, knowing that Virgil was part of the Imperial propaganda machine (the circle of artists around Maecenas who functioned as Augustus' culture minister), it is far more likely that the poem refers to Augustus or some other imperial figure.

 

[Luce NDs]

When you personally experience it ===you will know what it means in a hurry -----if your not saved ---


View attachment 12617

Always the chance of locked in your closet without a light because you wouldn't settle down ... just you all by yourself telling stories of hair raising content ... when there was nothing to it but the love of raising something ... from where there was nothing prior ...

 

[Luce NDs]

Christians have an irritating propensity for claiming classical literature a Christian prophecy even when there is no basis for doing so. Glad to hear you don't subscribe to this one.

Another example is Virgil's Fourth Eclogue, which references a "golden child". Christians tried to claim the "golden child" as being a prophecy of Christ. However, knowing that Virgil was part of the Imperial propaganda machine (the circle of artists around Maecenas who functioned as Augustus' culture minister), it is far more likely that the poem refers to Augustus or some other imperial figure.

Then out of the mystery arose ... what else after a long night? Don ... some feel he is the greatest ... without any decent basis ...

It raises some spirit of I Thessalonians 5:21 ... a dash ... someone run off ...

 

[Luce NDs]

The stories that people tell when nothing to do ... thus the mystery created volition ... a Job for will?

Can you abstract someone running off in parts to that extent? Maybe Susanne down by the water ... like song of watermelon grinding ... a slosh?

 

[unsafe]

Christians have an irritating propensity for claiming classical literature a Christian prophecy even when there is no basis for doing so

Most people just call themselves Christians there Mendalla ----True Christ-ians are Few ---in my view ---most just use the name --it makes them feel good ---I guess

 

[Luce NDs]

Christians are a set off bunch ... segregated by specific laws ... pious in fact ... really biased ... as they cannot see themselves as anything but perfect ...
hard to learn anything when having no mistakes ... rare CEO's recognize that ...

 

[WhyCzar]

True Christ-ians are Few ---in my view ---most just use the name --it makes them feel good ---I guess

In your view are you a true Chrit-ian?