UCCan Talk Emerging Spirit initiative including Wondercafe

JayneWonders said:

Actually, maybe there still is a disconnect?

I'm not sure how much has changed in some churches.

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My experiences is that the disconnect (schism) is far larger than many could imagine ... vast limitations of the mortal?

Some things are just way out ... OBI? Thus we have to get beyond ourselves ... an enigmatic puzzle!

Hi Jayne - yes, I remember Emerging Spirit & participated in one of its weekend conferences (with others from my congregation, as was required), which I thought was actually quite well done. Material was printed in full colour, coil bound books - which I only recently culled from my bookcase! Wish you'd asked a month earlier & I would have dropped them off to you! I imagine there are still some sitting in various church libraries.

I also attended an early Wondercafe gathering in Toronto, got the 'god in the search line' t-shirt, and marvelled at the huge street art collage mural that was being painted on a downtown building by notable graffiti artists. Was a lot of fun and got good press coverage.

Gord is correct - Living Spirit in Calgary is a campus of Hillhurst United, arising from an amalgamation some years ago. It is a primary home of a contemplative worship & several spiritually focused arts groups that serve their neighbourhood well.

@Carolla isn't that often the way. You don't use something, you finally dispose of it, and whoosh, the next week you need it.

Forget how I was first invited to join Wondercafe. I wasn't in the United Church at the time, and had never heard of Emerging Spirit. Still, someone on the Net found me and asked me to join. This can be done again with others if we're serious about increasing WC2's membership

Jaebius said:

Forget how I was first invited to join Wondercafe. I wasn't in the United Church at the time, and had never heard of Emerging Spirit. Still, someone on the Net found me and asked me to join. This can be done again with others if we're serious about increasing WC2's membership

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If you inquire about strange things ... you can expect something different!

Such powers are denied ... only secular powers are real ... that lets out the brae'n essence ... so not words allowed as thought, or anything similar!

Word thus gets allusive like Lucile ... something that just can't be nailed down ... get the allegory? Word is dangerous because of its power ... especially the dark and quiet ones ... virtue all unknown ... the great unknown myth?

Imagine what can be drawn from it as indicated by Joseph Campbell ... a reclusive power?

People commanding great misunderstanding and chaos ... might get a grip on what this means ... thus certain types of leaders will try and keep you in confusion while other teach understanding ... try and balance the difference ... a sort of schism in sol ... may cause white and black lines in a spectrum (cosmological sourced ripples and wrinkles)! I.E. from out there ... others may use it for the base of conflict about learning anything about the forth said!

Luce NDs said:

If you inquire about strange things ... you can expect something different!

Such powers are denied ... only secular powers are real ... that lets out the brae'n essence ... so not words allowed as thought, or anything similar!

Word thus gets allusive like Lucile ... something that just can't be nailed down ... get the allegory? Word is dangerous because of its power ... especially the dark and quiet ones ... virtue all unknown ... the great unknown myth?

Imagine what can be drawn from it as indicated by Joseph Campbell ... a reclusive power?

People commanding great misunderstanding and chaos ... might get a grip on what this means ... thus certain types of leaders will try and keep you in confusion while other teach understanding ... try and balance the difference ... a sort of schism in sol ... may cause white and black lines in a spectrum (cosmological sourced ripples and wrinkles)! I.E. from out there ... others may use it for the base of conflict about learning anything about the forth said!

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Wow, Luce. That's like me saying I forget where my car keys are and you then giving a lecture on the nature of destiny, language, and the hidden structure of reality

Jaebius said:

Wow, Luce. That's like me saying I forget where my car keys are and you then giving a lecture on the nature of destiny, language, and the hidden structure of reality

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Remember you started this with a comment about what you forgot? leads to the displacement of many assemblies and constructs ... until we get around to the other side of virtue ... that part obscured and occulted ... mysterious huh?

I find a lot of texts like that ... few answers as to why the writ ... thus asking and digging like scratching at history ... closed door!

People just don't want to know and will not ask! It is believed to be improper ... silence and blindness is best ... with considerable implications like Deny's ... engenderment? There we get into it ... the tensions of sects ... secularly! Secretly it has its uses ... seeps of particular enzymes ... cat a' list!

May arrive as a howl or moan in the dark ... reclusive needs? It is in there somewhere in humanity ... lost?

Look, my view of Emerging Spirit is going to be clouded by multiple events leading up the fiasco of 2014. I have never deciphered a plan for the work put in or money spent. I did not see the efforts at the grassroots level because, admittedly, I was not there. I did hear, through Wondercafe members, of confusion and apathy, so I was not without sources.

I have seen the work of some of the people tasked with implementing aspects of "Emerging Spirit", but only one sticks out in my mind because that was my only real point of contact with head office, and that was handled exceptionally poorly.

I have also been around some absolute gems of the UCCan like Rev. Bott, whom I hold in the highest esteem for both his sense of humour and ability to diffuse situations without anger or extreme actions.

Before this place closes, it is my hope that we can clear the air over the biased acts by the United Church staff and mistakes made by WC2 council, and my angry reactions to both.

chansen said:

Look, my view of Emerging Spirit is going to be clouded by multiple events leading up the fiasco of 2014. I have never deciphered a plan for the work put in or money spent. I did not see the efforts at the grassroots level because, admittedly, I was not there. I did hear, through Wondercafe members, of confusion and apathy, so I was not without sources.

I have seen the work of some of the people tasked with implementing aspects of "Emerging Spirit", but only one sticks out in my mind because that was my only real point of contact with head office, and that was handled exceptionally poorly.

I have also been around some absolute gems of the UCCan like Rev. Bott, whom I hold in the highest esteem for both his sense of humour and ability to diffuse situations without anger or extreme actions.

Before this place closes, it is my hope that we can clear the air over the biased acts by the United Church staff and mistakes made by WC2 council, and my angry reactions to both.

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The phat lady will say something about a _____ chance! That is Phixed is stoned ... no variation is acceptable ... that would suggest alteration ... too much potential for change! Spin of the wheel ...

Rev Bott, if I remember correctly, was very active in the training portion of Emerging Spirit. I remember chatting with him at an event. @Carolla may remember better.

I'm not confident the right people were in on that training.

chansen said:

I'm not confident the right people were in on that training.

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Well there's something for reinforcing ... like my visit with a late Dick C! Back about 1995 ... my demise started ... it continues as I was not supposed to be allowed here ... just wasn't to be according to the oli g' arches ... and stone walls!

GordW said:

NOt a terrible summary, talks more about the later Embracing the SPirit, and makes significant error as there is no congregation named "Emerging SPirit United Church" in Calgary

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Thst was Living Spirit, a merger of three churches that went wrong. I served an appointment tbere from July of 2007 when they moved into a building new to them to August of 2008. They kept all their ministers and one played a game of survivor until all the other original ministers were gone. Their goal of combining a new sanctuary with an affordable housing project died when the city councillor did not want "those people" living close to him. The failure started when the congregation of the fourth church that was to be part of the merger did not have a large enough majority to join. The third church wanted to have another vote because they voted for a four church merger, but were not given the option. Many of them went to another united church in the area, saving it from closing for a few more years. Many went other places. Those two churches had the most people and money. The cultures of the three churches were quite different.

They lost many old members when their ministry staff was revealed as a lesbian couple, but they gained many new members as well. When the couple split, it hurt the congregation. They had interim ministry for a few years and closed. It saddened me as many of the members became friends or were already friends through my mother in law. One of them was the first person I knew to die from Covid. In the end, it was the loss of committed lay members that led to closing.

GordW said:

Hillhurst (according to Google) has a campus called Living Spirit. Really the AI just made a big error (and possibly others) in the link @WhyCzar shared

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I moved to Ontario when LSUC was approaching closing. It is now Living Spirit Centre as a campus for Hillhurst. Good news for me. I am glad Hillhurst took it over. It would be a good fit as Hillhurst is north of downtown Calgary and Living Spirit is in the south between Mcleod Trail and Elbow Drive and close to Glenmore Trail.

In the 37 years since I was ordained, I learned that having a small team from a congregation attend a training event usually results in most of the team members giving up after discovering the inertia present in their congregation, feeling devalued by the congregation.

The people most willing to attend a training event are people unhappy with their church in some way. They are often not in tune with the leadership of the congregation.

An exception is when a congregation discovers it needs to change and sends a team of trusted members for training to lead them.

JayneWonders said:

Rev Bott, if I remember correctly, was very active in the training portion of Emerging Spirit. I remember chatting with him at an event. @Carolla may remember better.

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Rev. Dr. Keith Howard was the primary leader with Emerging Spirit initiative. Maybe Michael Kooiman also. I think Richard was more involved with the "More Franchises than Tim Horton's" conferences. I do recall some conversations with him at that event, but not ES.

jimkenney12 said:

In the 37 years since I was ordained, I learned that having a small team from a congregation attend a training event usually results in most of the team members giving up after discovering the inertia present in their congregation, feeling devalued by the congregation.

The people most willing to attend a training event are people unhappy with their church in some way. They are often not in tune with the leadership of the congregation.

An exception is when a congregation discovers it needs to change and sends a team of trusted members for training to lead them.

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Unhappiness of the unenlightened personas strikes me as significant ... but the language I use would lose many ... but then if I wasn't to say anything primarily (in the first place)! In church guidance I find many feel they are left in the dark ... Magi occurs when they find the way out ... like Maci, the edge ...

My full apologies as I wasn't supposed to speak in a normal scheme ... a dead man!