Expansion of MAID delayed until after next election

jimkenney12 said:

Thank you for posting these links. The budget decisions governments make suggest they really want troublesome people with health issues to just go quietly away in the night. Disgusting.

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Denial of problems are much easier than facing them head on ... especially if the head is missing hedonist leading on to something with horses that we do not comprehend! Its that stupid or thoughtless as we enjoy loss of the bother ... sometimes a vernacular expression ... like phoque raised to a heavenly position as they no longer have to think about it ... creating a psyche void ...

I recall when the Maritime Premiers decided to cut admissions to medical school because of the profusion of doctors in the late 80's ... they couldn't perceive retirement patterns escalating ... due to seized standards and nothing was expected to evolve ... its complex for the simple foresight!

Imagine evolving nothing! My grandpappy would be awed ... something coming out of a hollow tube ... like a worm or viper disease ...

It takes a ridiculous story to explain such myths as disbelieve able to the body of humanity! The folk need a good caning ... just to beat the enigma out ...

JayneWonders said:

I live with pain. I am unsure when/if it will go away.
The pain I live with does not make me wish to choose MAID.

What we are talking about here is not being forced to live with unacceptable pain levels.

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No, Track 2 is about disability, what is interpreted as advanced state of decline, and intolerable suffering (not necessarily “pain” or discomfort that cannot be relieved and - you know, is just part of a spectrum of life.) That can and has been broadly interpreted to mean suffering from social stigma. It has been interpreted to mean lack of access and opportunity and therefore feeling like a burden. It means also that disabled people’s bodies age faster so even if not dying, may need extra care for longer. Somehow our society thinks not having the means or social support to adapt to disability and feeling like a burden is an okay reason for MAiD to be administered. Ultimately it’s about inconvenient people. The Nazis called disabled people “useless eaters” and that’s the social engineering goal of Track 2.

Before you reply watch the film Ich Klage An (c.1941), and you’ll see the problem with the laws I hope. Know that the position the film - which was commissioned by Goebbels - takes is basically the same pattern our court and public opinion took after big lobby persuasion. It’s subtle but seeing as it’s an historical fact that Nazi eugenics targeted disabled people and they used the same tactics to get mainstream upper middle class buy in. The same concern is present again, and very valid. Current Canadian opinion on this - especially from our legislators - is the same as theirs - and the same thing is playing out. Again, get back to me when you’ve watched it. If you can still defend it we have nothing to talk about.

Kimmio Laughterlove said:

No, Track 2 is about disability, what is interpreted as advanced state of decline, and intolerable suffering (not necessarily “pain” or discomfort that cannot be relieved and - you know, is just part of a spectrum of life.) That can and has been broadly interpreted to mean suffering from social stigma. It has been interpreted to mean lack of access and opportunity and therefore feeling like a burden. It means also that disabled people’s bodies age faster so even if not dying, may need extra care for longer. Somehow our society thinks not having the means or social support to adapt to disability and feeling like a burden is an okay reason for MAiD to be administered. Ultimately it’s about inconvenient people. The Nazis called disabled people “useless eaters” and that’s the social engineering goal of Track 2.

Before you reply watch the film Ich Klage An (c.1941), and you’ll see the problem with the laws I hope. Know that the position the film - which was commissioned by Goebbels takes is basically the same pattern our court and public opinion took after big lobby persuasion. It’s obviously the case. I feel your opinion on this is the same as theirs - and the same thing is playing out. Again, get back to me when you’ve watched it. If you can still defend it we have nothing to talk about.

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i was responding to @jimkenney12 's comment re pain in his post, @Kimmio Laughterlove .

Re-read his post, and what i responded to, please
It was quoted in my post. I will put it here for your ease in reading.
from JimKenney12 "I am concerned by the general attitude in our society that we should be able to live without pain."

Unacceptable pain levels are subjective. Say someone gets disabled to my level. If they go around saying “I’d rather die.” That is an affront to me. Because I know the suffering and disabling factors, even more than being physical, are societal and systemic. I know social attitudes and barriers account for much of the “pain” and suffering. It’s like saying if I woke up as a different ethnicity I’d rather die. That’s how it feels to be a disabled person who lives with external attitudes about disabling conditions. And the supports won’t be there the more people opt for MAiD.

Please watch that film. Nobody here argue that you’re certain all intentions of our courts and government are good and there’s no repeat of history unless you’ve seen it.

@Kimmio Laughterlove -- i was responding specifically to Jim's comment re pain.
Can you let him respond?

jimkenney12 said:

I understand what you are saying and I understand what you fear. I understand Bette the Red's position. I am bothered by your attacks on her for stating her position. I believe kust responding to her position would be more responsible.
She lives with a great deal of pain at times and maybe sees renal failure, for now, as the last straw for her.
I am concerned by the general attitude in our society that we should be able to live without pain. I am opposed to Track 2 MAiD without a tougher qualifying process for sure and, maybe, in general..

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I live with - I don’t know many who don’t live with - a great deal of pain at times. I also know that renal failure is not just something that happens with seniors. As I said, a friends brother was diagnosed as a teenager and he’s still alive today. He must be close to 50. You don’t want to 1. Diminish the value of people living with conditions by suggesting that someone with their condition might be better off dead. Even if that person suggesting and diminishing is oneself. It’s a social contagion and is intended to be. Validated by the Track 2 policy itself. 2. Create conditions where the government sees $ value in cutting life saving treatments of several types as expansion progresses. Those are my reasons for getting upset and I think they’re valid reasons but I should have waited to calm down and say this instead.

Watch the film everybody. It’s not ok to be “a little bit Nazi” just so you know. You may be surprised at how “normal” the film is now that our laws have been in practice for several years. Too bad everybody who claims to be progressive and a proponent didn’t see it 11 years ago. It spells it out. It’s too bad if it takes that to make people reconsider - they should’ve known already.

My previous post was #666. Should I be superstitious lol. Well, here’s #667. I think I’ve met the devil - as Jesse Welles would say - and it’s disability discrimination rolled into MAiD expansion. It’s the silent pivot to worse things for more and people, masquerading as social progress - if people don’t start waking up. They are happening already and the point Welles is making is don’t wait for some magical time where we’re all going to hold hands in a war - the time to speak up and change minds and change course is now or it’ll only get worse.

How could winners succeed without knocking the resources out from the surrounding support forces ... and then it goes down imbalanced ...

It is how winners see an improved economy from their side alone ... thus one gets stuck in one shoe wile the other is a winning shoe --- Ed Sullivan on the medium ...

This waste is beyond us ... bringing us down in our own systemic disorder ... because we do not have well developed double vision from a singular point ... the pride and vanity of an isolated pit eh? No support network ... thus the entire thing collapses from avarice ... virtually unseen!

Although someone did warn us that corruption was within ... demanding inverse visions ... deep into the word!

Many prefer the superficial form of facetiae ... being as a masque on the cosmological Thora's pot ... Thor? How'd we get in here ...

JayneWonders said:

I live with pain. I am unsure when/if it will go away.
The pain I live with does not make me wish to choose MAID.

What we are talking about here is not being forced to live with unacceptable pain levels.

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I do not want people forced to live with unacceptable pain. I believe governments need to provide reasonable supports.that can reduce. Intense pain, such as for the woman in this article and the man who chose MAiD because he did not have access to allergen free housing snf the hundreds of others who did not have access to supports for their basic needs. People should not be pressured into choosing MAiD because of poverty. When the ten richest Canadians have wealth equal to $261 billion, we can afford to provide more hospice care and more support for people living with poverty.

jimkenney12 said:

I do not want people forced to live with unacceptable pain. I believe governments need to provide reasonable supports.that can reduce. Intense pain, such as for the woman in this article and the man who chose MAiD because he did not have access to allergen free housing snf the hundreds of others who did not have access to supports for their basic needs. People should not be pressured into choosing MAiD because of poverty. When the ten richest Canadians have wealth equal to $261 billion, we can afford to provide more hospice care and more support for people living with poverty.

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If they would sacrifice a bit more that the neighbor's body ... blood, sweat and tiers ... allowing distributed ups and downs ... OH!

Economic dependency (poverty due to receiving inadequate benefits?) was not measured for those under 65. That’s a glaring gap. I doubt they want to highlight those receiving track 2 MAiD who were in poverty due to inadequate govt benefits. Especially when that’s the thing everybody’s shouting about. They did highlight “lower income neighbourhoods” but that’s not always accurate if a person is living in low income housing situated in a neighborhood with average income, or behind on rent, or in a shared housing arrangement etc. Financial poverty can still be a factor in suffering.

Physical disability, women, and living alone, are not track 2 trends I like to see but somehow I knew. And I also know intrinsically that that is due to systemic barriers. The Canada Disability Act they mentioned won’t be fully implemented until 2040. It’s misleading to mention it as a positive change until it is fully implemented. Track 2 is expanding to “include” mental health disability long before that. People will die in the meantime.

jimkenney12 said:

I do not want people forced to live with unacceptable pain. I believe governments need to provide reasonable supports.that can reduce. Intense pain, such as for the woman in this article and the man who chose MAiD because he did not have access to allergen free housing snf the hundreds of others who did not have access to supports for their basic needs. People should not be pressured into choosing MAiD because of poverty. When the ten richest Canadians have wealth equal to $261 billion, we can afford to provide more hospice care and more support for people living with poverty.

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How long should track 2 just go ahead before these problems are addressed, though? They got it backwards and I don’t see that turning around anytime soon. It’s one thing to say they “should”, another to say track 2 shouldn’t be legal until… however, they don’t want to put those necessary supports in place and remove systemic barriers. Track 2 wouldn’t exist if they’d put those things first. They know that. Musing about “they should” (not just you but anybody who does so) doesn’t bring back the people who died because they “didn’t”.

Kimmio Laughterlove said:

however, they don’t want to put those necessary supports in place and remove systemic barriers.

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Why is that do you think? If poverty leads to mental health issues and mental health issues are next on the docket to be legally euthanized - where there is a will there is a way?

WhyCzar said:

Why is that do you think? If poverty leads to mental health issues and mental health issues are next on the docket to be legally euthanized - where there is a will there is a way?

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In a world on conflicting adversaries and no cooperation ... is it a wonder such empires fall? Always someone chewing away the support bones ... as if the bones were the only thing they were parasitizing ... the rest of the feast was out of sight ... as*spiting ... despite themselves ... so it goes down!

Co opts are dangerous as threatening to winners ... they must be monopolized ... thus singular items ... "singularities" are weird concepts ... they can be zero or infinite ... a stretch difficult to grasp ...

Luce NDs said:

Co opts are dangerous as threatening to winners ... they must be monopolized ... thus singular items ... "singularities" are weird concepts ... they can be zero or infinite ... a stretch difficult to grasp ...

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As Upton Sinclair said “it’s difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it.” Instead of speaking against what is happening and losing their careers and fat salaries, politicians, bureaucrats, medical and judicial workers, and even the police to name a few, become Judas Goats.

WhyCzar said:

As Upton Sinclair said “it’s difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it.” Instead of speaking against what has happened and losing their careers and fat salaries, politicians, bureaucrats, medical and judicial workers, and even the police to name a few, all become Judas Goats.

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Guess no one can argue with that concept ... right? As an old late friend would say: "everything is for sale" ... even life itself as all try and get some return on what they thought they believed ... you know what they say thought, thought ... and thus no one believed that the mechanism of thought was worth crap ... explaining the flush! It is convoluted as a motive ... poly MS Understood ...

WhyCzar said:

Why is that do you think? If poverty leads to mental health issues and mental health issues are next on the docket to be legally euthanized - where there is a will there is a way?

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The will isn’t there to help those who aren’t benefitting capitalism - and they’ve made many believe it’s not necessary for it to be there - so cutting from the bottom is normalized.