The Doctrine of Christ

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Setting aside the fact that the Bible is wrong about Christians having sin (as airclean taught us all recently in his discussion about James' error in wording) the real problem with using Matthew 7:5 in this context is that Jesus isn't speaking about judgement in that passage, he's speaking about sin - and basically he's saying that we shouldn't focus on the sins of others, we should be more concerned about our own sins. In any event, even if airclean can convince me that he has no sin (I doubt that he can) and therefore can focus on the sins of others more than on his own, pointing out someone's sins is not the same as judging them, since judging them is declaring their eternal fate, while pointing out their sin is focusing on this life. So, I'd still be waiting for a chapter and verse where Jesus actually says that judging others is acceptable behaviour. Unless, of course, airclean feels that, like James, Jesus simply chose the wrong word
--Good day Rev -- I am still kind of busy . But stop to read this thread.. Please Rev don't put words into my mouth. I believe it to be Childish and just plain attacking the other person with a falsehood. If you wish to call me a liar , then that is your opinion . I will ask whoever, why do you think so?


2Co 2:10




Any one whom you forgive, I also forgive. What I have forgiven, if I have forgiven anything, has been for your sake in the presence of Christ,


I was wondering how do you do this . With out Judging another person?
 
I seems there is a right way to judge -----verse 24 according to Jesus -----

Jesus Teaches at the Festival
14 Not until halfway through the festival did Jesus go up to the temple courts and begin to teach.(D)15 The Jews(E)there were amazed and asked, “How did this man get such learning(F)without having been taught?”(G)
16 Jesus answered,“My teaching is not my own. It comes from the one who sent me.(H)17 Anyone who chooses to do the will of God will find out(I)whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own.18 Whoever speaks on their own does so to gain personal glory,(J)but he who seeks the glory of the one who sent him is a man of truth; there is nothing false about him.19 Has not Moses given you the law?(K)Yet not one of you keeps the law. Why are you trying to kill me?”(L)
20 “You are demon-possessed,”(M)the crowd answered. “Who is trying to kill you?”
21 Jesus said to them,“I did one miracle,(N)and you are all amazed.22 Yet, because Moses gave you circumcision(O)(though actually it did not come from Moses, but from the patriarchs),(P)you circumcise a boy on the Sabbath.23 Now if a boy can be circumcised on the Sabbath so that the law of Moses may not be broken, why are you angry with me for healing a man’s whole body on the Sabbath?24 Stop judging by mere appearances, but instead judge correctly.”)



Is it right to judge -----Read all here -----http://www.biblebelievers.com/jmelton/Judging.html

God Expects Us to Judge -----The mouth of the righteous speaketh wisdom, and his tongue talketh of judgment." (Psa. 37:30) A righteous person will talk of judgment. He will not REFUSE to judge. He will talk judgment.
 
So, why unsafe, do you choose to believe this particular piece of scripture (this one's a bit dicey, as it's clearly directed to Jesus' disciples and their actions while he was still living), ignoring Jesus' direct instruction to "Judge not, lest you may be judged" in Matthew 7? How do you decide which verse to cherry-pick to support your position?
 
So, why unsafe, do you choose to believe this particular piece of scripture (this one's a bit dicey, as it's clearly directed to Jesus' disciples and their actions while he was still living), ignoring Jesus' direct instruction to "Judge not, lest you may be judged" in Matthew 7? How do you decide which verse to cherry-pick to support your position?

When cherry-picking one always picks the cherry that supports one's position. Did you miss Introduction to Cherry Picking 101? :D
 
So, why unsafe, do you choose to believe this particular piece of scripture (this one's a bit dicey, as it's clearly directed to Jesus' disciples and their actions while he was still living), ignoring Jesus' direct instruction to "Judge not, lest you may be judged" in Matthew 7? How do you decide which verse to cherry-pick to support your position?
-- Well BetteThe Red -I would say unsafe no I have a log in our eyes . Can not vouch others though. By the way we do not pick GOD dose.
 
Waterfall your quote ---And who are the righteous? ------


God's Children by adoption -----

Ephesians 4:17-24New International Version (NIV)

Instructions for Christian Living

17 So I tell you this, and insist on it in the Lord, that you must no longer(A)live as the Gentiles do, in the futility of their thinking.(B)18 They are darkened in their understanding(C)and separated from the life of God(D)because of the ignorance that is in them due to the hardening of their hearts.(E)19 Having lost all sensitivity,(F)they have given themselves over(G)to sensuality(H)so as to indulge in every kind of impurity, and they are full of greed.
20 That, however, is not the way of life you learned21 when you heard about Christ and were taught in him in accordance with the truth that is in Jesus.22 You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off(I)your old self,(J)which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires;(K)23 to be made new in the attitude of your minds;(L)24 and to put on(M)the new self,(N)created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness.
 
--Good day Rev -- I am still kind of busy . But stop to read this thread.. Please Rev don't put words into my mouth. I believe it to be Childish and just plain attacking the other person with a falsehood. If you wish to call me a liar , then that is your opinion . I will ask whoever, why do you think so?


2Co 2:10




Any one whom you forgive, I also forgive. What I have forgiven, if I have forgiven anything, has been for your sake in the presence of Christ,


I was wondering how do you do this . With out Judging another person?

Actually I haven't put any words in your mouth, nor have I called you a liar. You're the one who said James chose the wrong word. Otherwise, I simply said "unless airclean feels that Jesus chose the wrong word also." Unless is an important qualifier. It says that I don't know if you believe something or not. Why you feel I've called you a liar is a mystery to me.

I forgive many people without having "judged" them. I'm not sure why you feel 2 Corinthians 2:10 has anything to do with judgement. It's Paul speaking to the Corinthians about forgiveeness.

Otherwise, I'm going to pass on the discussion, simply because we won't resolve this and I don't have the time to start going round and round the circle again with you. If you feel I'm copping out by saying that, well, generally speaking on my list of day to day concerns the question of whether you think I'm copping out ranks somewhere below whatever happened to Mike Lookinland (who played Bobby on the Brady Bunch) and whether a zombie apocalypse is in any way a possibility.
 
-- Well BetteThe Red -I would say unsafe no I have a log in our eyes . Can not vouch others though. By the way we do not pick GOD dose.

Airclean, if you're going to discuss, you're going to have to try to communicate a bit better. Your words and ideas are not clear.

I'm not sure why you're answering for unsafe, as you have enough difficulty getting your own thoughts out without parsing anothers.

What are you trying to say here? That neither you nor unsafe have a log in your eyes, so you're allowed to judge? I honestly can't tell from your words, so please clarify.

Clearly someone is picking scripture here. Unsafe has picked one that looks like it says it's okay to judge. I'd like to know what she does with Jesus' clear instructions in Matthew 7 to "judge not, lest ye be judged by the same measure"?
 
--This Rev ,I see as a false teaching. We who accepted Jesus as Lord , have been Judged . We have no sin, after we come through Christ Jesus so put on Jesus, an Jesus has given us the power to Judge all things.Rev nothing I bring to your attention has been hidden from you perhaps someone has told you not to look. I SAY LOOK.
1 Cor-6: 2-3-- Is this a secret of some kind?
John 20: 23--Shell we not hide this
Have we lost our way in understanding who we are? We are Children of the most high .
Mark 16: 15-18---There is work for all.
I wonder if Jesus was alive today if he would say please don't put me on anymore because it takes me forever to iron out all those wrinkles you put in me.:rolleyes:
 
Give me chapter and verse where Jesus tells us to judge others.

I suspect you're referring to Paul's words in 1 Corinthians 6 that the saints will judge the world and even angels. How that works I'm not sure. I would point out, however, that Paul's words are clearly future oriented. Paul is speaking of the final judgement, not to judgement now. You have neither the
authority or the capacity right now to judge anyone.

Tsk, tsk! "If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him (Luke 17:3)."
 
Tsk, tsk! "If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him (Luke 17:3)."

"Tsk, tsk?" Who are you, my grandma?

Anyway. Wow. Thanks for sharing. All these years and Luke 17 has been off my radar screen. Don't know how I missed that one.

The point of your post, which is a proof text, ripped out of its surrounding context, and which doesn't even prove the thing that I think (?) you're trying to prove with the proof text, is?

In Luke 17 Jesus is speaking of how important it is for us to seek and offer forgiveness to each other. Without my willingness to offer forgiveness when it is asked for, not only does unforgiveness become a cycle, it can lead to greater and greater acts which need but do not receive forgiveness, if only because my unwillingness to offer forgiveness to begin with may not only lead to more sin on the part of the other person, it discourages them from seeking my forgiveness. Why bother if it's not going to be offered. Thus, my unforgiveness toward another is an act that may actually cause them to continue to sin without repenting. If I won't forgive, why should they repent of their behaviour? Since I'm not forgiving when asked to, I'm holding on to bitterness and I am myself engaging in sinful behaviour, directly contradicting the clear teaching of Jesus to forgive the repentant sinner repeatedly. By refusing to forgive and leading them into more sinful behaviour, I'm tying a millstone around their neck (possibly my own as well) because they are discouraged from even repenting.

The power of Jesus' argument may in fact be that his story is not so much about forgiveness/unforgiveness as that it can be applied specifically to relations within the body of disciples (in today's language - the church.) The reference in v.3 to "your brother" implies that this is an "in-family" problem. Jesus has already seen arguments within his small band of disciples which may have led to hurt feelings and unforgiveness. The dispute over who was the greatest had taken place in Luke 9, for example. Arguments within a family are often the worst and most passionate and hurts inflicted within a family are often the hardest to forgive. Thus, Jesus has evidence that this will be an ongoing problem I've seen that played out within the church over and over again. His teaching on the importance of forgiveness within the family context rather than allowing unforgiveness to become a plague is very relevant, since an unforgiving church is not a very good witness.

Now, what does any of that has to do with me acting as someone's judge? In this context according to Jesus I'm making a decision on whether to forgive a repentant sinner or not to forgive them. Since their repentance comes before my forgiveness (it is their repentance and forgiveness by God that seems to motivate them to seek my forgiveness) I'm not judging them in any way - they're judging themselves, and since they've repented they're presumably forgiven by God. Frankly, I rarely have any need to forgive anyone, since I generally don't hold grudges against anyone. I am always willing to acknowledge my wrongdoing and ask forgiveness. Life's too short to hold on obsessively to either grudges or guilt and to be weighed down by the things others have done to me or by the things I may have done to others - whether advertently or inadvertently in either case.

Broadly speaking, the passage reminds us of the nature of God - God's ongoing willingness to forgive repentant sinners - and to forgive over and over again.

This passage might actually be of use in establishing whether Christians (disciples of Jesus) can still sin, of course, since clearly Jesus says to his disciples "if your brother sins ..." and "if he sins against you seven times in a day ..." Apparently my "brothers" (my fellow disciples) can sin.
 
What if it doesn't repent according to the social God ... are there isolated bits of God that are wiser in the darkness ... Mac Hiavelian humus as an elite flighty stink ... when the social maas goes ABBA'd from inadequate role models ... of quanta of flighty bits .. wee chits?

If there is no such thing as rational sociology can there be a social psyche ... or just the incarnation thereof as a transient manifestation that is there and then gone ... like thoughts don't stick well as forerunners to wisdom ...

God should test this concept ... see if it is humanly comprehensive ... considering the aforesaid flaws ...
 
--I asked God your question . Just as you posted it. Here is His answer.

Mar 2:17 And when Jesus heard it, he said to them, "Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick; I came not to call the righteous, but sinners."


Just another elite group that are not that humble in the light of the buried god ...
 
--I asked God your question . Just as you posted it. Here is His answer.

Mar 2:17 And when Jesus heard it, he said to them, "Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick; I came not to call the righteous, but sinners."
Are you a sinner airclean?
 
If one is perfectly healed will we be out of this flawed Zoan ... a spectre of Zionism of the other kind?
 
revsdd your quote ------This passage might actually be of use in establishing whether Christians (disciples of Jesus) can still sin, of course, since clearly Jesus says to his disciples "if your brother sins ..." and "if he sins against you seven times in a day ..." Apparently my "brothers" (my fellow disciples) can sin.

Here is the thing ----Jesus is still alive ----the Holy Spirit hadn't come yet ----so the sin you speak of here is still of the Law -----Jesus came to fulfill the Law and brought in Grace -----Here is the thing -------God sent His Son to free us from SIN and Death --------after Jesus dies ---God only sees HIS CHILDREN Spiritually THROUGH HIS SON -------SO here is the thing -------Did Jesus SIN -----NO ----is Jesus Righteous ---Yes -----Is Jesus Holy --YES ----So Now when anyone Accepts Jesus as there Lord and Savior ------the Question becomes -----How does God View that Person ----according to SCRIPTURE we are viewed by God Spiritually ----THROUGH HIS SON --------ALL BLEMISHED ARE GONE IN God's EYES ----we are Sinless ---we are Righteous ---we are Holy in our Spirit -----so Spiritually we are Dead to Sin in God's eyes --AS HIS SON WAS DEAD TO SIN SO ARE WE DEAD TO SIN IN GOD'S EYES -------

This is the thing --------as humans we still have our flesh which is worldly thinking --- After we accept Christ ----so we still have some residue of our OLD SIN NATURE -----WILL We Sin -----YES ------Does God hold that sin against us ------NO ------Do we hold that Sin against ourselves ----Most Do -----as we still see ourselves as ---NOT HOLY ---NOT RIGHTEOUS ----NOT WORTHY ----when God sees us Spiritually through His Son who is Worthy ----Sin free ----Holy ---Righteous ---------etc ------

We need to acknowledge that we still have that old sin residue so we can stay humble and know we need to stay fixed on God and do His will and work to grow in our walk with Christ ----- but should be be calling ourselves Sinners ---unholy ---unrighteous --not worthy ---I personally don't think so ------as scripture says ----what a man thinks in his heart so is he --------

Until we realize who we are In Christ and what He accomplished on the Cross for us and accept the New Spiritual Creation we have become ---we will not see ourselves as God sees us Spiritually ----- Viewing us TRHROUGH THE EYES OF HIS SON ---SINLEES ---HOLY --RIGHTEOUS AND WORTHY ----this is the only way we get into Heaven ---sinless ------nothing unclean can enter God's holy place ---so if we continue to see ourselves as Sinners ----unholy ---not worthy and unrighteous then why should we conceive that we should enter God's Holy place after we die being ---fitly dirty rags ----
 
Revsdd--
This passage might actually be of use in establishing whether Christians (disciples of Jesus) can still sin, of course, since clearly Jesus says to his disciples "if your brother sins ..." and "if he sins against you seven times in a day ..." Apparently my "brothers" (my fellow disciples) can sin.

[/QUOTE]-Airclean-Good morning Steve , I have some time this morning. I just read your post here. It seems your some what mixed up Steve. You see I find to forgive others, is not for there sake . It is for mine.We who walk with GOD are to show Love not hate. For me or you to show all the Love you can. You must have nothing but that Love in your mind. What they think or feel" has no bearing. It is not they who is to show GOD , it is us. If they do show Love there is nothing wrong with that.

You have said that we , that is those who are saved . Can sin, I would wonder by what Law can one sin , who has but one Law" they live under? That of course taken GODS Holy Spirit in vain. Now here again you and I may talk about this.What is taken GODS Holy Spirit in Vain.
I believe all Mankind have sinned , an deserve anger and punishment from GOD. Is this what GOD gives? No instead He shows us His Love, GOD So Loved The World". I use a passage here , that I" have hardly ever heard said by Christians. If your slapped" in the face , Turn the other cheek. His" ways, really are not mans. Given time rev, say" a thousand years or so, could be we can learn.
 
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