Waterfall said:
@ revjohn, According to this passage and others, do we have to believe in Christ or just His teachings?
Good question.
I think that the relationship between Christ and his teachings is very much like the relationship between flesh and bone. You really don't want it to be either/or when it really works best as both/and.
That said there is nuance.
What do I believe about Jesus? Do I have to believe that he is God in human flesh? Can I believe that he is just as human as I am?
Obviously there will be all matter of disagreement on what I must believe to be a Christian. Does what I believe about Christ change who Christ was? Does it change what he said? Does it change how he lived or died or what he believed? No. It doesn't. What it does do is provide me with an excuse to not do the hard things that belief in Jesus may call for.
Me personally, I believe that Jesus the Christ was fully human and fully divine, that Jesus the Christ is God the Son, God in human flesh.
Do I need to believe any of that to believe that God should be loved with all of my heart, soul, mind and strength? Not actually. Though in tough times when there is temptation to turn back on belief (yes I have been tempted to return evil for evil--though technically it was a temptation to return violence for incompetence). I believe in the grace of God to such a degree that I believe I would have been forgiven for my violent plan, action and intent. As it turned out I only had to repent the violence planned. I never had to take the action and formalize the intent.
It would have been much easier for me if I held to the belief that Jesus, the Christ, is just a construct and not an actual person.
I still would have had to deal with personal integrity and a belief that I simply do not get to be evil and get away with it.
I believe Jesus the Christ is, more or less, what the Christian faith has claimed of him for centuries and particularly that branch of Christianity which is informed by Reformational thought.
Waterfall said:
Was Christ Divine or just someone that taught us how to love one another?
I believe the Christ is divine and that he is one of many who have taught us how we might love one another.
Waterfall said:
Are there other paths to God through different religions and belief systems according to John and Jesus?
That is a hotly debated answer and I am not confident that there is a definitive answer. I am aware that there are some seriously convinced and devoutly faithful to their answer believing it to be more correct than any possible different answer.
I believe the grace of God will assist us in discerning the best answer and not that we need the right answer to access the grace of God.
Traditionally the Christian faith has recognized Jesus the Christ as the direct revelation of God, the writings of the Old and New Testaments as special revelations of God and all of Creation as God's general revelation. Which means that there are a lot of avenues through which we may come to know God in deeper ways.
I am not convinced that all roads lead to God, some must lead away from God unless all traffic on the spiritual plane is one way. So I could step into any stream at any point and follow it in one way which might lead me to a deeper understanding of God or, I might follow it in one way which leads to a more obstructed image of who God is.
I know that water flows down hill. That is universal.
God's grace flows from God to those whom God is pleased to give that grace to. That is also universal.
What is not universal, or even always obvious is whether or not I am dealing with the grace of God or a human agent attempting to be gracious and if I am not altogether familiar with grace I still might not be able to follow it as well as a bloodhound follows the scent of something else.
Consider that some believe grace does not flow into their lives until they do the right thing. How do they identify grace?
Some will say unless an individual has Jesus the Christ they cannot have salvation. Which really means that if you do not have God the Son there is no way you can have God the Father or even God the Holy Spirit. Isn't that slightly myopic though? I mean as far as Trinitarians go is there ever a time when God is present that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit can be completely absent? Does the Father not hear when I pray to the Son? Does the Son not hear when I pray to the Father? Are both the Father and the Son ignorant of my prayers if I address the Holy Spirit?
So is the Jew who prays to Almighty God praying to a different God than the Christian who prays to Almighty God? Different perspectives on the Almighty certainly but different Almighties? What about the Muslim who also prays to Almighty God? Are there now three different perspectives or three different persons identified by the same title?
It seems that more important than how one names the divinity that one prays to there is fruit that comes out of a faithful relationship. I'm not sure how Jews or Muslims define that fruit. I know how that fruit is defined in Galatians.
The Epistle to the Galatians said:
By contrast, the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, generosity, faithfulness,gentleness, and self-control. There is no law against such things.
If I as a Christian demonstrate love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, generosity, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control then it should go without saying that the Holy Spirit within me is responsible for all of that happening.
Who gets the credit when Jews or Muslims demonstrate the same thing?
I would think that the faithfulness might be out of reach of the non-believer. What about the rest of it? If we came into contact with anyone who demonstrated love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, generosity, gentleness and self-control would we shake our heads sadly and say that they are completely bereft of the Holy Spirit?
