Toward 2035

[jimkenney12]

One weakness of the UCCAN for the plus 35 years I have served the church is a fear of losing control by the people with power. Afraid to give power to the Indigenous church to seek out their own path. Afraid to let experienced lay leaders preside over the sacraments. Afraid to let stewardship beyond raising money for M&S become a priority. Afraid to give younger generations freedom to rethink church. Afraid to see what is true.

 

[Mendalla]

Afraid to let experienced lay leaders preside over the sacraments.

That's the real contrast I saw once I got into UU'ism. Anyone can do anything, the minister is really a guide and teacher, not an authority figure and not every congregation even chooses to have one.

 

[chansen]

One weakness of the UCCAN for the plus 35 years I have served the church is a fear of losing control by the people with power. Afraid to give power to the Indigenous church to seek out their own path. Afraid to let experienced lay leaders preside over the sacraments. Afraid to let stewardship beyond raising money for M&S become a priority. Afraid to give younger generations freedom to rethink church. Afraid to see what is true.

If they are afraid of those things, they are terrified of atheism taking root inside churches. Never mind that, besides belief in God, atheists and United Church members are more alike in how they think, what they value and how they vote, than the United Church and most other Christian denominations.

And in some cases, that similarity extends to belief as well.

 

[chansen]

That's the real contrast I saw once I got into UU'ism. Anyone can do anything, the minister is really a guide and teacher, not an authority figure and not every congregation even chooses to have one.

That's it, I'm becoming a UU member. But only if I can lead.

 

[WhyCzar]

Probably a good time to get a group together to go to other churches to see what kind of services bring the younger adults in.....just for ideas,

A major ongoing commitment tied to Toward 2035's youth focus is Collective 2026: (em)brace for Impact, the ecumenical national gathering co-hosted with the Presbyterian Church in Canada (August 12–15, 2026, Brock University, St. Catharines, ON). Registration opened January 15, 2026, and it's promoted as a spirit-filled space to grow in faith, dream boldly, build community, and equip young people—directly supporting invitation/growth and leadership objectives. Dedicated tracks for youth (ages 14–18), young adults (19–25), and youth leaders (clergy/lay).

 

[Luce NDs]

Everything is connected to the tale ... of us?

Imagine just being part and not the entire wagging's ...

 

[WhyCzar]

I asked AI:

Did Jesus entrust his transformative message to a group of relatively inexperienced youth and empower them to carry it forward?"

This is what I got.

In first-century Jewish culture, a young rabbi like Jesus—who began his public ministry at about age 30 (Luke 3:23)—would typically select and intensively train disciples (talmidim) who were younger than himself, often teenagers or young adults in their mid-teens to early 20s, to follow him closely, imitate his teachings and lifestyle, and eventually become teachers themselves; this apprenticeship emphasized not just learning Scripture but living out the rabbi's interpretation through total submission, daily observation, and bold commitment.

The Twelve apostles (disciples chosen by Jesus) fit this pattern, with most estimated to be under 30 (likely 13–25 or so), unmarried except for Peter (who was married and possibly one of the oldest, around late 20s), and including the very young John (perhaps 15–18).

This youthfulness adds a fascinating layer: Jesus entrusted his revolutionary message and the future of the movement to a group of mostly young, relatively inexperienced people—fishermen, a tax collector, etc.—who left everything to follow him. It shows how God often uses young people for bold purposes (think David, Jeremiah, or Timothy in Scripture).

I then asked AI:

If Jesus as a 30-year-old starting something new - empowered his teen/young adult disciples to carry his lessons forward perhaps churches today (like the UCC and PCC with Collective 2026) could recapture that by authentically empowering younger generations like Jesus did?

This is what I got.

The UCC's emphasis on multigenerational and diverse discipleship (echoing how Jesus called young followers) does invite parallels in empowering marginalized or younger voices today—including Indigenous youth and leaders—in shaping the church's future. The disciples' story highlights how God uses everyday, often young people from their own cultural contexts to spread transformative messages, which resonates with the UCC's calls for authentic inclusion and Indigenous self-determination.

 

[unsafe]

It seems to me that all these spiritually dead churches are intellectually striving from their Human effort to figure out how to keep the people interested in going ---------this must be so mentally exhausting for the people trying to conjure up all the new ideas ---for the next 9 years to 2035 ---

Such a shame that People can't Rest their self Effort and Let God take the Helm ---

AI

The Danger of Striving

Performance-Driven Ministry: Many believers wrongly assume that constant, frenetic activity is a sign of spirituality, treating the church like a machine that will break down if they stop working.

"Running on Empty": Constantly giving out without refilling through prayer, worship, and rest leads to being "worn out".

Operating in the Flesh: When work causes inner striving, turmoil, and a lack of peace, it is often a sign that the labor is being done in personal energy rather than the "energy of grace".

Neglecting the Sabbath: Failing to take a day of rest—a commandment and gift from God—is a failure to trust that God can maintain the church without human help.

The Meaning of "Resting in God"

Finished Work: Resting in God means believing that Jesus has already completed the essential work of salvation and redemption, and we are working from a position of already being loved, not striving to earn approval.

Trusting in God's Sovereignty: It is the confidence that God is in control, allowing one to step back, knowing that the church is ultimately His.

"Work from Rest, Not For It": This is a profound spiritual state where obedience flows naturally from a place of peace, rather than anxious,, "do-it-all" effort.

I say Very Important to Note this -----Active Abiding: Resting in God does not mean doing nothing; rather, it is "active abiding"—staying close to Him so that service is empowered by His strength.

Moving from Striving to Resting

Shift Focus: Change the focus from what you are doing to what Jesus has done.

Prioritize Intimacy: Spend time in prayer and meditation, "stocking the pond" to prevent spiritual emptiness.

Set Boundaries: Recognize that you are a finite creature, not the Almighty, and embrace the need for regular, uninterrupted rest.

Trust God with the Outcome: Stop trying to "fix" or "deliver" what only God can do, and instead trust Him to act in His perfect timing.
"Resting in God" is not about laziness, but about "sacred stillness" and "giving over" control to Him.

I say --if people did what AI is spouting out here -----the church would grow by God's effort ---it is called
Sweatless Victory ---- triumph achieved effortlessly through God's grace and power, not personal struggle, by relying on Jesus' finished work on the cross, resulting in victory over sin, trials, and worldly challenges without human exertion

 

[Waterfall]

It seems to me that all these spiritually dead churches are intellectually striving from their Human effort to figure out how to keep the people interested in going ---------this must be so mentally exhausting for the people trying to conjure up all the new ideas ---for the next 9 years to 2035 ---

Such a shame that People can't Rest their self Effort and Let God take the Helm ---

AI

The Danger of Striving

Performance-Driven Ministry: Many believers wrongly assume that constant, frenetic activity is a sign of spirituality, treating the church like a machine that will break down if they stop working.

"Running on Empty": Constantly giving out without refilling through prayer, worship, and rest leads to being "worn out".

Operating in the Flesh: When work causes inner striving, turmoil, and a lack of peace, it is often a sign that the labor is being done in personal energy rather than the "energy of grace".

Neglecting the Sabbath: Failing to take a day of rest—a commandment and gift from God—is a failure to trust that God can maintain the church without human help.

The Meaning of "Resting in God"

Finished Work: Resting in God means believing that Jesus has already completed the essential work of salvation and redemption, and we are working from a position of already being loved, not striving to earn approval.

Trusting in God's Sovereignty: It is the confidence that God is in control, allowing one to step back, knowing that the church is ultimately His.

"Work from Rest, Not For It": This is a profound spiritual state where obedience flows naturally from a place of peace, rather than anxious,, "do-it-all" effort.

I say Very Important to Note this -----Active Abiding: Resting in God does not mean doing nothing; rather, it is "active abiding"—staying close to Him so that service is empowered by His strength.

Moving from Striving to Resting

Shift Focus: Change the focus from what you are doing to what Jesus has done.

Prioritize Intimacy: Spend time in prayer and meditation, "stocking the pond" to prevent spiritual emptiness.

Set Boundaries: Recognize that you are a finite creature, not the Almighty, and embrace the need for regular, uninterrupted rest.

Trust God with the Outcome: Stop trying to "fix" or "deliver" what only God can do, and instead trust Him to act in His perfect timing.
"Resting in God" is not about laziness, but about "sacred stillness" and "giving over" control to Him.

I say --if people did what AI is spouting out here -----the church would grow by God's effort ---it is called
Sweatless Victory ---- triumph achieved effortlessly through God's grace and power, not personal struggle, by relying on Jesus' finished work on the cross, resulting in victory over sin, trials, and worldly challenges without human exertion

Was there never any correction to be made towards churches from the beginning of Christianity that required discipleship, corrections or addendums?

 

[unsafe]

Was there never any correction to be made towards churches from the beginning of Christianity

Christianity is a man made Religion ------The early Church -followed the WAY ---not Christianity and had one goal ---preach the Gospel and save souls ---and help the poor -----and Paul relied on God's effort to o bring people to Christ -----He never had to change his ministry year after year to appease people nor did he intellectually strive to get people to accept Christ ----He proclaimed the Gospel with power by and through the Holy Spirit and rested in God power to do the rest ---Grow the Church -----

A lot of Churches today are trying to appease People by using human Gimmicks-- to attend their Church ----Movie nights for the kids ----games after church outside ----Coffee times through the week etc ----more of a social club than a Church today ----it is all about the numbers in attendance than it is about Preaching God's word and saving souls -----


AI Overview


In the New Testament, the Apostle Paul did not rely on his own effort to bring people to Christ; rather, he viewed his missionary work as a "grace-driven effort" that depended entirely on God's power.

 

[Waterfall]

Christianity is a man made Religion ------The early Church -followed the WAY ---not Christianity and had one goal ---preach the Gospel and save souls ---and help the poor -----and Paul relied on God's effort to o bring people to Christ -----He never had to change his ministry year after year to appease people nor did he intellectually strive to get people to accept Christ ----He proclaimed the Gospel with power by and through the Holy Spirit and rested in God power to do the rest ---Grow the Church -----

A lot of Churches today are trying to appease People by using human Gimmicks-- to attend their Church ----Movie nights for the kids ----games after church outside ----Coffee times through the week etc ----more of a social club than a Church today ----it is all about the numbers in attendance than it is about Preaching God's word and saving souls -----


AI Overview


In the New Testament, the Apostle Paul did not rely on his own effort to bring people to Christ; rather, he viewed his missionary work as a "grace-driven effort" that depended entirely on God's power.

I'm hoping the early church had fun and social time together and laughed.

 

[paradox3]

Looking ahead to 2035, our goal is to become a multicultural and a multigenerational church. The study materials certainly reflect this.

Is it also our goal to become more open to atheists? Our new minister likes to say that although we are a Christian community, we are open to people of all faiths and people of no faith.

 

[Luce NDs]

Just what should be expelled or eliminated without waste (prodigal)? Lord there's a challenge in a conflicted folk ... the love-hate paradigm ... swell curve! Alien bump ...

 

[jimkenney12]

Looking ahead to 2035, our goal is to become a multicultural and a multigenerational church. The study materials certainly reflect this.

Is it also our goal to become more open to atheists? Our new minister likes to say that although we are a Christian community, we are open to people of all faiths and people of no faith.

We already have atheists in our congregations. The tough fight still is about ministers who are openly atheists.

 

[chansen]

We already have atheists in our congregations. The tough fight still is about ministers who are openly atheists.

The part that really got to me was how passionate United types are over an atheist minister who wasn't their minister. Nothing else elicited such a response at, say, Broadview Magazine or the UCCan FB group. That's what people chose as their rallying point.

You can't get that many United Church members to rise out of their Laz-y-boys in frustration and solidarity for any other cause.

A denomination in decline, arguing over who they can exclude and therefore which members they can alienate.

(Also, and this is an aside so if you're offended by Cruxifusion references just skip along, the review of Rev. Vosper was initiated by two members of the Toronto Council Executive, one of which is the host minister for Crux 2026. I always found that connection fascinating.)

 

[Mendalla]

We already have atheists in our congregations.

Indeed. I remember meeting one who sang in the choir at a local United Church that I attended. I think we initially met somewhere online, maybe even the original WC.

The tough fight still is about ministers who are openly atheists.

And that's going to remain a tough fight as long as "essential agreement" with the various founding documents is required. Almost of them have a theistic element to them, ranging from hard classical Trinitarianism in the Basis to a more expansive understanding with room for something like panentheism in the Song of Faith. Atheism is hard to fit well with any of them, really, though I am sure a good, thoughtful theologian/philosopher could finesse it in some way. And even if there is room in "essential agreement", as chansen suggests, getting the buy-in to actually call an atheist minister from congregants, boards, other clergy, and so on is another whole battle.

If I was a UCCan member of an atheistic bent seeking ordination, the CUC would likely be getting a phone call. Of course, we UUs used to have the opposite problem; dominance by humanists in a certain generation of congregations led to theistic ministers facing struggles. Which is, IMHO, no better. That's fading now as the WWII-generation and boomers who led that humanist movement in Unitarianism and later in UU'ism are aging out. Things are becoming more diverse, or so I am seeing in my occasional interactions with the local fellowship.

 

[unsafe]

I'm hoping the early church had fun and social time together and laughed.

I am sure the True Followers did among themselves but it wasn't a Gimmick to bring people to to hear the Gospel or to bring them to Christ as it as used today ---the main focus for the True Church back then was to save souls by bringing them to Christ through Preaching God's word ----

The Church today is far from God in my view -----------today it is all about getting the numbers in the Church Building so they hopefully get the funds to keep the Church building from falling down and to pay all their expenses and have some to help the poor ----so they need a lot of People in the churches today to keep it open -----it is really not about Saving Souls -----it is all about Numbers and Money coming in today ----Just my View

 

[unsafe]

The Church I attend right now has a Full Gym attached to it ---where they hold all kinds of social activities ---and events --and that alone is pulling more people to attend the church ---they come?? cause they get free use of the big Gym ----basketball nets and a wide space to hang around ------wrong motive -----just my view ----

 

[chansen]

I am sure the True Followers did among themselves but it wasn't a Gimmick to bring people to to hear the Gospel or to bring them to Christ as it as used today ---the main focus for the True Church back then was to save souls by bringing them to Christ through Preaching God's word ----

We took a group of 15 ski cross racers and by working with them and helping raise their abilities and showing interest in them, and yes having fun with them, I helped recruit 4 more in 8 days.

Having fun is part of the formula for success with young people. They have to want to be around you. Then you won't have to force them - they'll want to join.

I'm asking kids to throw themselves off jumps and be painfully uncomfortable in tucks. It's heavy work to just get through the start section of a course - look at any ski cross footage. It's not all fun and games over here. Last week, one kid overcooked a jump and landed on the flats from about 20ft up and badly bruised both his feet. He can't wait to get back to us. It's hard, what we do, and they are there every Saturday and Sunday morning.

If I was a Sunday School leader, I would absolutely kick ass. Kids would love me. The problem is, I want to send kids anywhere but Sunday School.

Literally, I'm one of your problems. Me, and people like me. Parents who send their kids to me get back kids with skills in a sport, sure. More importantly, they come back home with more confidence, more energy, more empathy and more stories. They will stay outside in a literal blizzard to work with people like me.

The Church I attend right now has a Full Gym attached to it ---where they hold all kinds of social activities ---and events --and that alone is pulling more people to attend the church ---they come?? cause they get free use of the big Gym ----basketball nets and a wide space to hang around ------wrong motive -----just my view ----

A gym in a church is a great idea. There are lots of sports you can do in a gym. You don't need a ski hill. And a gym is an all year thing. You won't attract or keep young people with your ideas or your beliefs. Not a significant number of them. You need them hanging around, to hear things, to maybe be open to spending more time upstairs. Mostly, they need great coaches who take an interest in them and motivate them.

But you're not interested in them. You're a salesperson, not a coach. And you care about the product more than the customer. If your God is real, do you think he would really be upset with me for being there for a kid who was disappointed in their performance? For making sure every athlete feels included in the team? Because I'm not talking about God on a Sunday? Well, I may let slip an occasional, "Goddamn that was awesome!"

That gym may be the best thing you have in your church. Now, who is staffing it? Are they fun? Do they motivate young people? Do they give a damn about their lives? Do they drone on about Jesus, or the perfect jump shot?

 

[paradox3]

My childhood church was a beautiful historic building which added a connecting auditorium/ gym in the 1960's. I grew up attending many activities there.

But you know what? It's long gone. Replaced with rent geared to income housing as part of a strategic direction decades ago.

We have a United Church on the Danforth in Toronto that boasts a gymnasium and a (now antique/ manual setup) bowling alley in the basement.

What goes around comes around. I think it's fair to say that the physical fitness aspect has been tried. Could be time to try it again. Who knows?

There are evangelical churches around here with wonderful facilities, great programming and youth pastors. I hear that they attract youth no problem. But when the young people age out of youth group, a lot of them are gone.

Some of these churches also have College & Careers for young adults. Not sure how well they do.