The Age of Unlimited Possibility. And yet another thought tangent

Welcome to Wondercafe2!

A community where we discuss, share, and have some fun together. Join today and become a part of it!

Register Log in
So am I. I’m likely not going to be here in 30 yrs and if it’s what the kids want, so be it, but I’m skeptical that it won’t turn out as envisioned like so much tech hasn’t already. I mean what if all the bots just get together and glitch out, obsessed with making paper clips until the whole world is buried in paper clips? (A scientist said that first sometime, not me.) Maybe we could stop it but would AI errors create more headaches?

I also worry that people won’t know the difference between an AI fact or error. What will people fact check with? It becomes a closed system.

I remember about 17 years ago - earlier GPS days - a young woman walked past my coworker and I while we were outside on our break, and commented that her GPS was telling her that the address she was looking for was supposed to be at our office building - which was a different address. We pointed her down the street but she kept insisting her GPS said it was where we were, seeming quite upset - with it and with us. She didn’t seem mentally ill just perplexed that her device was wrong or somehow the numbers right on the building door itself were deceiving her. It was really weird but also gave an early indication of the pitfalls of tech dependency. At the time, my coworker and I were both amused (“Lol. Seriously?” we said after she left), and concerned.
 
Last edited:
I have a lot of questions about Palantir

When in doubt ask AI ?
Palantir Technologies is undeniably a significant force in shaping the future, primarily through its advanced data integration and AI platforms that are deeply embedded in critical governmental, defense, and commercial operations. While it may not explicitly "shape a new world order" in a direct, political sense, its pervasive technological influence is redefining how institutions make decisions, how national security is managed, and how economies function. The company's strategic alignment with Western interests and its leadership's vision for AI-driven global dominance further underscore its pivotal role. However, this influence comes with substantial ethical considerations, particularly regarding privacy, surveillance, and the potential for misuse of powerful AI tools. Ultimately, Palantir's trajectory will continue to be a subject of intense scrutiny and debate as its technologies increasingly intertwine with the fabric of global governance and societal structures.

ithy.com

Ithy

Combine the best AIs for beautiful article-quality answers
ithy.com ithy.com
Click to expand...
 
Kimmio Laughterlove said:
Humans don’t like being directed by machines. I prefer flawed humans over utilitarian robots. As long as we’re not striving for perfection - we need imperfection - and the robots aren’t taking over, I accept AI.
Click to expand...
Humans have been directed by machines since the day the wheel was invented. It's part of being human to create machines that help and advance us.
You just gave perfect examples of artists using AI while maintaining creative control, your favorite musician directs the process, controls the outcome, and determines if it's what they want. That's not being controlled by a machine, that's using a machine as a tool.
Every time you stop at a red light, follow GPS directions, or use a clock to schedule your day, you're being 'directed by a machine.' The difference is whether those machines serve human purposes or not.
Why is it different when an artist uses AI to enhance their music versus other applications? The same principle applies, humans remain in control of the goals and decisions while AI handles the technical execution.
 
WhyCzar said:
I don't know how to use most tech, let alone understand how it works.

I get by with a little help from AI.

But the ground is shifting far faster than I am capable of processing.

Is AI going to empower us or replace us?

Will there be one clear "ring to rule them all" or many?

I am wary of AI becoming the master and not the servant.
Click to expand...
WhyCzar said:
I have a lot of questions about Palantir

When in doubt ask AI ?
Click to expand...
Kimmio Laughterlove said:
lol well you and I have that skepticism in common WhyCzar.
Click to expand...
WhyCzar and Kimmio. I totally get feeling overwhelmed by how fast things are moving, that's completely normal. Whenever there was change in human society, some people didn't like how fast it was happening. People felt the same way during the Industrial Revolution, when cars replaced horses, when computers started appearing in offices, even when the printing press was invented.
The pace always feels too fast when you're living through it. But humans have consistently adapted and found ways to shape these changes to serve our needs rather than control us.
On empowerment vs replacement, I think it comes down to who's making the decisions about how AI gets used. The examples we've been discussing show AI amplifying human capability, not replacing human judgment.
Your Palantir concerns are legitimate, that's exactly the kind of corporate power we should be watching. But that's more about surveillance and data collection than AI itself. The key is keeping human values and democratic oversight at the center as these systems develop.
 
One big question about "AI" an intellectual resource machine ... but can it care about its failures and flaws. Can emotions be programmed or are they indeterminant and erratic sufficiently to deserve the odic domain ... deserving a myth regarding motivation?

There's "the" thing that that presents a thorn or stigma in one side of the blurb ... the -ism of theist? Flat out different and unresolvable in mortal form ... thus it beats us to death ... apocalypse now? Some day we wake up and the enigma has vanished --- the Great ALONE? Autonomous at that ... a light peek in the dark ... at the Haggai ... different essences! The stingers ...
 
Even definition of stigma is an enigma as there are versions that folk would debate ...

A sign of disease ... at one or another level ... one attaching the sense of hubris ... and thus disgrace as not perfect?
 
Pavlos Maros said:
But humans have consistently adapted and found ways to shape these changes to serve our needs rather than control us.
Click to expand...

The Pentagon is racing to integrate AI into its weapons system to keep up with China and Russia.

Where will that lead?

“We’ve got to go faster, my friends,” President Donald Trump’s chairman of the Joint Chiefs, Gen. Dan “Razin” Caine, told a gathering of big private sector tech companies in Washington in June. The biggest challenge, Caine added, is to increase “our willingness to take risks, and we’re going to do that.” On July 23 the Trump administration issued an “AI Action Plan” that called for a removal of as much AI regulation as possible.
Click to expand...
 
Pavlos Maros said:
Humans have been directed by machines since the day the wheel was invented. It's part of being human to create machines that help and advance us.
You just gave perfect examples of artists using AI while maintaining creative control, your favorite musician directs the process, controls the outcome, and determines if it's what they want. That's not being controlled by a machine, that's using a machine as a tool.
Every time you stop at a red light, follow GPS directions, or use a clock to schedule your day, you're being 'directed by a machine.' The difference is whether those machines serve human purposes or not.
Why is it different when an artist uses AI to enhance their music versus other applications? The same principle applies, humans remain in control of the goals and decisions while AI handles the technical execution.
Click to expand...
It’s different because it’s about creativity which is freeing.

I personally don’t use GPS. I don’t drive, I take the bus or otherwise go short distances and take in the sights. Sometimes I cut down a different street for something to do and see “oh that garden looks nice”etc. Saw a brown squirrel chasing a bigger black squirrel around a tree yesterday. I’m a daydreamer. Sometimes someone drives me and they use GPS. I’m in my 50s. Most drivers I know, even older than me, use it but it’s like fingernails down a chalkboard annoying to me listening to it. A friend in their 30s used it one time and took a route that was counter intuitive to me because of GPS - so much so it was odd (I knew how to get there like the back of my hand) and stood out - but didn’t want to argue with her about how to drive. Debatable that we got there faster - maybe by a minute or two max - and it wasn’t as satisfying a view lol. Depends what your priorities are. If you’re in a rush it’s okay - but why are we constantly in more of a rush the more we have these tools to help us? So much is about efficiency but what are we ultimately rushing towards? People have stopped asking that. And it’s about surveillance, which is creepy. And tracking efficiency. Using it as a creative tool or to do basic tasks (if you’re disabled for example) could be freeing while the other reasons are more like bondage, increasingly, and I don’t know how we rein that in because it’s taken such a detour already and people are programmed by their dependency on it .
 
Last edited:
Kimmio, I've been lost at night in southern Pennsylvania trying to read tiny maps by moonlight. I eventually made it, many hours after I was expected to arrive. I would have killed for a GPS. I didn't even have a cell phone at the time.
 
BetteTheRed said:
Kimmio, I've been lost at night in southern Pennsylvania trying to read tiny maps by moonlight. I eventually made it, many hours after I was expected to arrive. I would have killed for a GPS. I didn't even have a cell phone at the time.
Click to expand...
I’m not disagreeing that it can be a helpful option when needed. It’s not always needed but people are now programmed to be in the habit of using it.

If you had GPS you wouldn’t have had that adventure to tell us about ;) (I realize it was stressful at the time - but there’s something cool about that and that you eventually figured it out. Nothing horrible happened it just took longer. Cool story. And there are piles of cool adventure stories people have about road trips that didn’t go as planned - prior to cell phones and GPS. What will people write about if everything is efficient? Tech manuals? Not even. AI will write those too. lol)
 
Last edited:
I wrote in another thread about an severely autistic client of a day program I did a practicum at. It was pre-GPS. He had a meltdown, physically reacted, in the vehicle because we had to take a detour on our way somewhere - he was distressed about not going the route that he was familiar with. If there had been GPS he could’ve been prepared for the detour before we got there. I reflected on how that could’ve been helpful. I’m not suggesting it can’t. I’m questioning our dependency on it.
 
Last edited:
My 80 year old (fierce feminist in her day and young spirited) relative likes to curse and swear at her GPS. It’s amusing. Calling it a b…and a st*p*d broad. She’s not going to let some young sexy robot give her bad instructions LOL.

If she could pick a Sean Connery style voice for it, it might be a bit less fraught to be in the car, I’m thinking. :giggle:There’s probably an app for that. That’s the sort of thing AI can do that’s fun.
 
Last edited:
WhyCzar said:
The Pentagon is racing to integrate AI into its weapons system to keep up with China and Russia.

Where will that lead?


Click to expand...
This is definitely one of the areas where we need to be most careful. Military AI is a legitimate concern, very different from using AI for music or government services.
The reality is this: if the US doesn't develop these systems, China and Russia will anyway, and they're less likely to build in safeguards or follow international agreements about their use. The Pentagon is already investing heavily in AI weapons systems partly because other nations are doing the same.
But here's what I think matters most: keeping humans in the decision-making loop for life and death choices. The goal should be AI that enhances military decision-making and defensive capabilities, not autonomous systems that decide who lives or dies without human oversight.
The arms race aspect is concerning, but it's not really optional at this point. The question becomes how we shape international agreements and ethical frameworks around these technologies while they're being developed, rather than trying to stop development entirely.
What specific aspects worry you most, the autonomous decision-making, the speed of development, or something else?
 
Kimmio Laughterlove said:
It’s different because it’s about creativity which is freeing.

I personally don’t use GPS. I don’t drive, I take the bus or otherwise go short distances and take in the sights. Sometimes I cut down a different street for something to do and see “oh that garden looks nice”etc. Saw a brown squirrel chasing a bigger black squirrel around a tree yesterday. I’m a daydreamer. Sometimes someone drives me and they use GPS. I’m in my 50s. Most drivers I know, even older than me, use it but it’s like fingernails down a chalkboard annoying to me listening to it. A friend in their 30s used it one time and took a route that was counter intuitive to me because of GPS - so much so it was odd (I knew how to get there like the back of my hand) and stood out - but didn’t want to argue with her about how to drive. Debatable that we got there faster - maybe by a minute or two max - and it wasn’t as satisfying a view lol. Depends what your priorities are. If you’re in a rush it’s okay - but why are we constantly in more of a rush the more we have these tools to help us? So much is about efficiency but what are we ultimately rushing towards? People have stopped asking that. And it’s about surveillance, which is creepy. And tracking efficiency. Using it as a creative tool or to do basic tasks (if you’re disabled for example) could be freeing while the other reasons are more like bondage, increasingly, and I don’t know how we rein that in because it’s taken such a detour already and people are programmed by their dependency on it .
Click to expand...
You've hit on something really important, there's a huge difference between AI that frees us up to be more creative and AI that makes us more efficient at the expense of everything else that makes life worth living.
Your GPS example is perfect. You're choosing to notice brown squirrels and nice gardens instead of shaving two minutes off a trip. That's a completely valid choice about what matters in life.
I think the key question you're raising is: are we using AI to do more of what we love (like your creative examples), or are we using it to optimize our lives into a series of efficient tasks? Because those lead to very different outcomes.
The surveillance and tracking aspect is definitely creepy when it's about monitoring and controlling people. But the same technology could theoretically help someone with mobility issues navigate the world more easily, or help an artist bring their vision to life.
Maybe the real issue isn't the AI itself, but that we've gotten into this mindset where efficiency and speed are automatically good, without asking what we're actually trying to accomplish. We're rushing toward... what exactly?
 
A lot of the prototypes of the technology we use (speech to text is a prime example), were once invented independently of profit motive, to help disabled people. And they were created by or consulted on by occupational therapists, with disabled people. But once profit gets involved, motive becomes questionable. Like Musk’s neuralink for example. It’s being promoted as something to help non verbal people communicate their thoughts. But the idea of one of the already richest men in the world controlling the means and profiting off of reading peoples’ thoughts is a huge Pandora’s box. It’s a science fiction nightmare. I don’t buy the idea that it’s about helping oppressed people one bit. It’s the opposite.
 
Last edited:
There should be moratoriums on what these things can be used for but powerful people with power and profit motives are just as likely to ignore that because they can and that’s why they discredit the institutions set up to help guide such decision making, like the UN ( wasn’t there a moritorium on killer robots, yet military drones are basically that) - so how do we (the regular people) rein it in and still benefit from the positive aspects?

More and more, we don’t have a choice not to use the technologies put before us.
 
Last edited:
AI looked this up for me, full disclosure. I already knew about this, just not specific details. In my own words:

Wayne Westerman was a student with carpal tunnel syndrome who, along with his professor, developed touch screen technology in the 90’s. Their organization, Fingerworks, was acquired by Apple in 2005 and the rest is history. Everybody loved the touch screens (except people who are blind. I personally sometimes miss the feel of the buttons and having memorized their positions by touch and I’m not blind.) Once Apple got us on the hook with touch screens they basically ramped up the technology that makes us slaves to our phones, and to their profits and power.
 
Weird that I remember the first person I knew to get a smart phone “Oh cool a tiny iPad!”… I don’t remember the first time I saw an iPad. Seems so long ago but also yesterday. Sometimes it’s like they always existed and that’s creepy.

Also begs the question “if Apple acquired Fingerworks, why did they need to? They already had touchscreen technology which I thought came from an earlier adaptive technology. Because isn’t the iPhone touch screen just a tiny iPad?” So I’m questioning the thoroughness of AI’s research on that right now.

Nevertheless, they still have us under their thumb in many ways, under the auspices of helping and efficiency. But I get tired of spending so much of my time learning new applications that are more superficial changes than helpful ones most of the time. And there’s so much to navigate to make our devices safer and only so much space in my brain and time in my day I want to devote to that every time I get a phone update. You have to memorize something new every time and it feels like a waste of time we’re forced into. I want to throw the thing out the window sometimes but I need it.

Smart phones are a blessing and a curse for people with ADHD. It’s a little pile of distraction. Could be helpful if simplified but it tends to be just another messy cupboard where you lose s**t.
 
Last edited:
Pavlos Maros said:
What specific aspects worry you most, the autonomous decision-making, the speed of development, or something else?
Click to expand...
The race to establish a global AI Technocracy.

Pre-crime pervasive surveillance, social credit scores, digital ID's, programmable money.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top