Aliens, Interstellar Travel: A Cosmic Reality Check Tangent

[Pavlos Maros]

I was told that aliens who would come to earth would be malevolent and only come for our resources that is pure fantasy and misses the point. Any species able to cross the stars would have mastered energy and extraction on a scale we can’t imagine. Asteroids and moons hold far more metals, water, and rare elements than our planet, without the drag of gravity.

For me another point is the development window. Since the Big Bang 13.8 billion years ago, evolution and technology have had roughly the same head start everywhere. It’s unlikely that alien civilizations are millions of years ahead of us. Far more probable, they’re only centuries apart, wrestling with the same challenges we face: energy, sustainability, and the crippling cost of spaceflight.

Also there is the distance problem at the moment light-speed defines the universe we see, and it also locks travel into near impossibility. Crossing the stars isn’t exploration, it’s an ordeal that curiosity alone can’t justify.
Given that the light we see from stars is ancient, alien species on the other side of the universe are dealing with the very same problems we are.

Why would we wish to go at all? Maybe desperation will force it one day, planetary collapse, stellar death, survival itself. But as a casual venture, the maths don’t work. Civilizations everywhere may dream of the stars, yet most reach the same sober conclusion. The distances are too vast, and the answers lie closer to home.

The stars maybe calling, but the maths are screaming “stay home” much louder.

What is your take on things?


("Maths." Not a spelling mistake, but maybe in Canada. Lol.)

 

[Luce NDs]

"Maths" is just another word ... until folk understand the implications of such a diverse item of concern ... they will not bother with such question!

Then word and "maths" just another dark mystery that shrouds our limitations ... i.e. Human Bondage in a deprived sense?

Is some opening something of a fringe desire? BPD as a forensic concern ... given the criminal activity that goes on in our unknown parts ...

Back to that grand old question ... what is this item called self ... are we self-aware or still not "WOKE" as the corrupt actions would prefer ... actors or Acton?

Shakespeare posed some potential facets ... multiple facia? Imagine 2- faced coinage ... a split in 'age ...

Trouble is you can't see it when right in the smoke 'n thing ... daemon? Self ID 'd ... thus disposed ... and we cast off our shells? Lordy, lower Dei the implications ... tis not simple ... like a myth, story or legend it is layered ... an expression of history laid out?

Few grasp things that are distasteful ... makes them uncomfortable so much about humanity is prodigal garbage ... wasted illumination? Try pall for a word fit ... may take several lifetimes to figure ... it may come round as retribution ... often misplaced because of the unknown factor! It is a great item ... even grand depending on the point of view: subjective or objective?

Get out with you to see it from the fringe ... borderline? Cliff-hanger ...

 

[Luce NDs]

Sometimes hard faces in the ranges ...

 

[Mendalla]

First off, I have very little doubt that there is life in the universe beyond this planet, and some of it is probably sentient. There are billions of galaxies holding trillions of stars and (based on what we have seen locally) most of those stars have planets and it is now becoming apparent that a significant percentage of those planets would be habitable by terrestrial life (and who knows about other possible forms of life). It simply seems highly improbable that life has only happened once. And, indeed, that intelligent life capable of building civilizations has only happened once. So the existence of extra-solar life is not really a problem for me. Probability says it should be there.

But, yeah, special relativity puts a huge barrier to any kind of interstellar space travel. Even at a significant percentage of the speed of light, many nearby planets are decades away. It's not impossible, just that it would take a huge effort. Most likely scenario is what has been termed a "generation ship", people building a single massive ship where their species can live for generations until they reach another system. And that would like require so much in terms of resources, that it would probably be a desperation move, perhaps to leave a system that is in extreme danger for some reason, rather than something someone would do just for casual exploration.

So I really do not think aliens are here or ever have been here. If they have, then they clearly have discovered something about the universe that we have not. As we know it now, even travelling at light speed generates a raft of impossibilities (the object moving at the speed of light becomes a point of infinite mass with 0 dimension, i.e. a singularity, and time stops). Photons are exempt because they have no rest mass. And beyond the speed of light means time reverses, creating potential paradoxes like returning home before you left (and that's one of the minor ones). Alleged workarounds like wormholes and Alcubierre drives have their problems, too, including paradoxes and the fact that the former have never been proven to exist while the latter requires massive amounts of energy, basically necessitating harnessing a black hole or similar.

For those wondering if there's any outs here like "its only a theory", special relativity has held up under scrutiny for over a century now. When we accelerate particles to near the speed of light in accelerators like the LHC, we do indeed see their mass increasing and their relative time slowing down in ways that exactly match Einstein's equations and those derived from them. So for now, our best, tested hypothesis tells us that we cannot reach, let alone exceed, the speed of light. Anyone traveling to other stars has to do so at a fraction of the speed of light, meaning ongoing, routine interstellar flight like see in Star Wars, Star Trek, and many other s-f franchises is not going to happen.

So yes to there being intelligent life beyond our solar system, no to us ever encountering it barring special cases like a generation ship stumbling into our solar system. WIthin the solar system, there could be microbial and simple multicellular life in certain places that we might eventually find. But no aliens, just "bugs" at most for lack of a better term.

 

[Mendalla]

("Maths." Not a spelling mistake, but maybe in Canada. Lol.)

I hang out with enough of you Brits online that I am fine with either singular or plural. I'm used to both now.

 

[Luce NDs]

First off, I have very little doubt that there is life in the universe beyond this planet, and some of it is probably sentient. There are billions of galaxies holding trillions of stars and (based on what we have seen locally) most of those stars have planets and it is now becoming apparent that a significant percentage of those planets would be habitable by terrestrial life (and who knows about other possible forms of life). It simply seems highly improbable that life has only happened once. And, indeed, that intelligent life capable of building civilizations has only happened once. So the existence of extra-solar life is not really a problem for me. Probability says it should be there.

But, yeah, special relativity puts a huge barrier to any kind of interstellar space travel. Even at a significant percentage of the speed of light, many nearby planets are decades away. It's not impossible, just that it would take a huge effort. Most likely scenario is what has been termed a "generation ship", people building a single massive ship where their species can live for generations until they reach another system. And that would like require so much in terms of resources, that it would probably be a desperation move, perhaps to leave a system that is in extreme danger for some reason, rather than something someone would do just for casual exploration.

So I really do not think aliens are here or ever have been here. If they have, then they clearly have discovered something about the universe that we have not. As we know it now, even travelling at light speed generates a raft of impossibilities (the object moving at the speed of light becomes a point of infinite mass with 0 dimension, i.e. a singularity, and time stops). Photons are exempt because they have no rest mass. And beyond the speed of light means time reverses, creating potential paradoxes like returning home before you left (and that's one of the minor ones). Alleged workarounds like wormholes and Alcubierre drives have their problems, too, including paradoxes and the fact that the former have never been proven to exist while the latter requires massive amounts of energy, basically necessitating harnessing a black hole or similar.

For those wondering if there's any outs here like "its only a theory", special relativity has held up under scrutiny for over a century now. When we accelerate particles to near the speed of light in accelerators like the LHC, we do indeed see their mass increasing and their relative time slowing down in ways that exactly match Einstein's equations and those derived from them. So for now, our best, tested hypothesis tells us that we cannot reach, let alone exceed, the speed of light. Anyone traveling to other stars has to do so at a fraction of the speed of light, meaning ongoing, routine interstellar flight like see in Star Wars, Star Trek, and many other s-f franchises is not going to happen.

So yes to there being intelligent life beyond our solar system, no to us ever encountering it barring special cases like a generation ship stumbling into our solar system. WIthin the solar system, there could be microbial and simple multicellular life in certain places that we might eventually find. But no aliens, just "bugs" at most for lack of a better term.

In a field where all things could be called theoretical ... it is interesting that you would hypothecas that way ... pseudonyms and all!

It is like a god particle that changes from energy to mass and also in reflection ... the alternate way ... creating in the process distinct enigma ...

Surely realists and existentialist would have difficulty with that hypothesis without and open duality of heart and soul! There is an image of that somewhere ...

Many deny such duos ... as it they were eliminated in a flaming departure ... there has got to be something to the fact that it started from nothing but one or the other then altered like energy ↔ mass equity! All in a sense of balance ... as the initial 3 come 4th ... if 2 + 3 come together quintessence ... accounting for n-1 in one formula! EN lightening?

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

I was told that aliens who would come to earth would be malevolent and only come for our resources that is pure fantasy and misses the point. Any species able to cross the stars would have mastered energy and extraction on a scale we can’t imagine. Asteroids and moons hold far more metals, water, and rare elements than our planet, without the drag of gravity.

For me another point is the development window. Since the Big Bang 13.8 billion years ago, evolution and technology have had roughly the same head start everywhere. It’s unlikely that alien civilizations are millions of years ahead of us. Far more probable, they’re only centuries apart, wrestling with the same challenges we face: energy, sustainability, and the crippling cost of spaceflight.

Also there is the distance problem at the moment light-speed defines the universe we see, and it also locks travel into near impossibility. Crossing the stars isn’t exploration, it’s an ordeal that curiosity alone can’t justify.
Given that the light we see from stars is ancient, alien species on the other side of the universe are dealing with the very same problems we are.

Why would we wish to go at all? Maybe desperation will force it one day, planetary collapse, stellar death, survival itself. But as a casual venture, the maths don’t work. Civilizations everywhere may dream of the stars, yet most reach the same sober conclusion. The distances are too vast, and the answers lie closer to home.

The stars maybe calling, but the maths are screaming “stay home” much louder.

What is your take on things?


("Maths." Not a spelling mistake, but maybe in Canada. Lol.)

If there are aliens on the other side of the universe, we don’t know if they are dealing with the same problems we are. They might be dinosaurs that never had an ice age (hello Land of the Lost - anyone remember that tv show? I wouldn’t want to visit a place similar to that!).

They might be humanoids who developed something other than a financial system like any we’ve had,, and have dedicated their resource extraction to interstellar exploration and otherwise live quite basically and cooperatively and haven’t exploited everyone and everything on their planet. Maybe they did that instead of making cell phones and they are way ahead of us. Maybe they dedicated their education almost entirely to that pursuit, they know we’re here and they’re coming to get us! To pick us up? Or maybe to destroy us? Maybe there are more than one set of aliens on different planets …maybe some got here a long time ago, already exist among us, and they are part of a secret society/ family that has kept their existence secret for many generations (lol movie idea - I said it here first).

Maybe they’re like no other species in existence here, their planetary conditions are much different and they have a way of life we just haven’t considered and can’t imagine because we have no reference point. Maybe the plants have brains and the animals need dirt and sunlight to grow.

Maybe they’re rainbow unicorns!

It’s likely there’s life out there, but maybe earth was the only fertile ground that thinking life evolved on. If so it’s pretty sad what we’ve done to it.

I don’t have interest in space travel and conquering new planets. We’ve screwed this one up, leave the others alone.

I am more intrigued by the multiverse idea than interstellar travel. We have no control of that. We should not aim to.

If the aliens are coming, they’ll probably be disappointed.

 

[Mendalla]

If the aliens are coming, they’ll probably be disappointed.

"Beam me up, Scotty. There's no intelligent life down here." (Star Trek joke)

"And pray that there's intelligent life somewhere up in space
'Cause there's bugger all down here on earth"

- The Galaxy Song, Monty Python's The Meaning of Life, written by Eric Idle

 

[Pavlos Maros]

If there are aliens on the other side of the universe, we don’t know if they are dealing with the same problems we are. They might be dinosaurs that never had an ice age (hello Land of the Lost - anyone remember that tv show? I wouldn’t want to visit a place similar to that!).

They might be humanoids who developed something other than a financial system like any we’ve had,, and have dedicated their resource extraction to interstellar exploration and otherwise live quite basically and cooperatively and haven’t exploited everyone and everything on their planet. Maybe they did that instead of making cell phones and they are way ahead of us. Maybe they dedicated their education almost entirely to that pursuit, they know we’re here and they’re coming to get us! To pick us up? Or maybe to destroy us? Maybe there are more than one set of aliens on different planets …maybe some got here a long time ago, already exist among us, and they are part of a secret society/ family that has kept their existence secret for many generations (lol movie idea - I said it here first).

Maybe they’re like no other species in existence here, their planetary conditions are much different and they have a way of life we just haven’t considered and can’t imagine because we have no reference point. Maybe the plants have brains and the animals need dirt and sunlight to grow.

Maybe they’re rainbow unicorns!

It’s likely there’s life out there, but maybe earth was the only fertile ground that thinking life evolved on. If so it’s pretty sad what we’ve done to it.

I don’t have interest in space travel and conquering new planets. We’ve screwed this one up, leave the others alone.

I am more intrigued by the multiverse idea than interstellar travel. We have no control of that. We should not aim to.

If the aliens are coming, they’ll probably be disappointed.

Too many maybe's.

Maybe they're green, maybe they're grey
Maybe they come here every day
Maybe they're dumb, maybe they're smart
Maybe all they do all day is fart

Maybe they're big, maybe they're small
Maybe they don't exist at all
Maybe they're nice, maybe they're mean
Maybe they're colours we've never seen

Maybe they're here, maybe they're there
Maybe they're floating in mid air
Maybe they laugh, maybe they cry
Maybe I think too much... I wonder why?

Lol.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

If you want a break from thinking too much, this is Land of the Lost (had to look it up of course, because I thought of it lol). The late 70s Sid and Marty Krofft version not the 2009 Will Farrell movie version. I loved this show. It’s ridiculous! My mom hated it. As a kid, I wanted to be there. Now, not so much lol. If not because of the dinosaurs, because of the insufferable staging.

Not interstellar though - more hole in the Earth/ quantum glitch?

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

Maybe the aliens will arrive in a flying dingy.

 

[Mendalla]

If you want a break from thinking too much, this is Land of the Lost (had to look it up of course, because I thought of it lol). The late 70s Sid and Marty Krofft version not the 2009 Will Farrell movie version. I loved this show. It’s ridiculous! My mom hated it. As a kid, I wanted to be there. Now, not so much lol. If not because of the dinosaurs, because of the insufferable staging.

Not interstellar though - more hole in the Earth/ quantum glitch?

I actually loved that show and was a bit sad that the movie played it for laughs. I loved that it combined the dinosaurs with a lost non-human civilization (the Sleestak) and did some decent world-building with it. A version done to Jurassic World standards of fx would be amazing.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

I actually loved that show and was a bit sad that the movie played it for laughs. I loved that it combined the dinosaurs with a lost non-human civilization (the Sleestak) and did some decent world-building with it. A version done to Jurassic World standards of fx would be amazing.

It was pretty cheesy though…I can see why the comedic angle was taken for adults who watched it as kids (I was pretty young and it was funny to me then) …and why some would want a more serious version.

Wasn’t it called Krofft Adventures or something like that along with the show title? Good nostalgia, anyway.

 

[Pavlos Maros]

If you want a break from thinking too much, this is Land of the Lost (had to look it up of course, because I thought of it lol). The late 70s Sid and Marty Krofft version not the 2009 Will Farrell movie version. I loved this show. It’s ridiculous! My mom hated it. As a kid, I wanted to be there. Now, not so much lol. If not because of the dinosaurs, because of the insufferable staging.

Not interstellar though - more hole in the Earth/ quantum glitch?

I'm glad I missed it. Ray Harryhausen would be turning over in his grave. And the Keystone studios want their sets back.

 

[Mendalla]

I'm glad I missed it. Ray Harryhausen would be turning over in his grave. And the Keystone studios want their sets back.

It was Saturday morning television, not exactly renowned for its massive budgets. But a version done by someone like Harryhausen would have been amazing. I still like some of the stop motion monster movies better than a lot of CGI ones (though the original Jurassic Park blew me away at the time) and most of those are either him or his mentor Willis O'Brien (who did the 1933 King Kong among others).

 

[Luce NDs]

Aliens are part of the Old Testament ... where they were known as the Great Unknown ... present mortals are in too much of a rush to see what is past ... thus the historical loss ... like the fall of empires ... won't the emperors ever learn?

It is just how equalized it is in reality ... form a great abstract and everything will be OK once you are out-there! Passing on is a bit of madness ...

Abstract virtue? Ever been there? It is said to be mysterious and entangling ... like some cats ...