1 John: A Journey

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1 John 3:11-24
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Bible Gateway passage: 1 John 3:11-24 - New English Translation

God Is Love, So We Must Love One Another - For this is the gospel message that you have heard from the beginning: that we should love one another, not like Cain who was of the evil one and brutally murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his deeds were evil, but his brother’s...
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John continues to write about Christians loving fellow Christians. They are not to be surprised if the world hates them.

They should love in deed and truth & have confidence in the presence of God. If they keep God's commandments they will receive what they ask for from God.

Here is the commandment from God. To believe in Jesus Christ and love one another. Then they will reside in God and God in them. They will know this by the Spirit God has given them.
 
This is certainly looking like the precursor to Trinitarian thought which the Church will later develop.

This reading is beautiful and inspiring if we set aside its exclusive nature.
 
paradox3 said:
John continues to write about Christians loving fellow Christians. They are not to be surprised if the world hates them.
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Just to Clarify -------I think if you do some research on what Agaping one another means ---you will see that it is not meaning just Christians loving other Christians ----it means all people -

Agape which is the Love here is a fruit of the Spirit and a sacrificial Love ---it is not ruled by by our emotions ---

This is from ---read all yourselves --I just posted this part
www.gotquestions.org

What is agape love? | GotQuestions.org

What is agape love? How is agape love different from other types of love?
www.gotquestions.org

We are to love others with agape love, whether they are fellow believers (John 13:34) or bitter enemies (Matthew 5:44). Jesus gave the parable of the Good Samaritan as an example of sacrifice for the sake of others, even for those who may care nothing at all for us. Agape love as modeled by Christ is not based on a feeling; rather, it is a determined act of the will, a joyful resolve to put the welfare of others above our own.
 
@unsafe
Yes, I am aware of the alternate scriptures (gospels) you suggest. And I am acquainted with the explanation you provide for Agape love.

However, what I am attempting to do here is consider John's epistles at face value. And look at what they are, in fact, saying.

@BetteTheRed up thread identified inconsistency between these epistles and the parable of the good Samaritan.

In my view, John's theology is exclusionary towards non-christians. The focus is on high Christology and I am finding him more and more apocalyptic all the time. If he did actually write Revelation, his apocalyptic theology is full blown by then.

Jesus and John the Baptist were apocalyptic preachers as well. But Jesus painted with a wider brush than John the Evangelist.
 
Well your certainly entitled to your worldly opinion of this Love mentioned here and who it is directed to that is for sure -----but Spiritually it means all people ----that is all I am pointing out here --

2 different lens of viewing here -----
 
unsafe said:
Well your certainly entitled to your worldly opinion of this Love mentioned here and who it is directed to that is for sure -----but Spiritually it means all people ----that is all I am pointing out here --

2 different lens of viewing here
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What you are doing @unsafe is conflating various parts of the bible. John says one thing. The other gospels and letters quite often say something different.

Please quit judging my discussion points as Worldly opinions. All I am attempting to do is zero in on the actual topic (1John) of this thread.
 
MY Take on this Scripture

So here you can't separate these 2 verses 11-12 as they really go together to Describe ----True Believers from False Believers ----So it is not talking directly to True Believers to True Believers ----John here Mentions Cain ---who is a child of the devil ---and evil ---He killed his Brother ----who he should have loved ----

Verse 15 now tells you ---that not all who call themselves True Believers are really True Believers ==they ars False Believers ----and don't have eternal life in them ---

AMP B verses

11 For this is the message which you [believers] have heard from the beginning [of your relationship with Christ], that we should [unselfishly] love and seek the best for one another; and not be like Cain, who was of the evil one and murdered his brother [Abel]. And why did he murder him? Because Cain’s deeds were evil, and his brother’s were righteous.

Verse 15
15 Everyone who hates (works against) his brother [in Christ] is [at heart] a murderer [by God’s standards]; and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.

False Believer described here -----So He is telling True Believers to be wary of their False counterpart--

verses 16 and 17 ---Giving heads up here on how to tell if one is a True or False believer

This is speaking of Jesus here in 16 --and what He did for us ---and True Believers should do the same for other Believers ---

16 By this we know [and have come to understand the depth and essence of His precious] love: that He [willingly] laid down His life for us [because He loved us]. And we ought to lay down our lives for the believers.

17 But whoever has the world’s goods (adequate resources), and sees his brother in need, but has no compassion for him, how does the love of God live in him?

Verse 18 --is saying ---if your a true believer --don't just give lip service ---put your Agape into action and by acting they show they are of the truth ----which assures or heart and quiets the conscience

verses 19 and 20 ---Believers know by the assurance of the heart and quiet conscience that they belong to the way of the truth ----and even if they are convicted of guilt in their heart they still have the assurance that they can come to God and be in His presents and confess their guilt and maintain that assured heart and quiet conscience

Last part --Verses 23-24 ===True believers are to believe and trust in the name of God's Son Jesus Christ and that they Agape and seek the best for another as commanded ---and constantly obey His word and instructions that is proof that He really abides in us by the Spirit whom He sent to dwell in us
 
"not like Cainwho was of the evil one and brutally murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his deeds were evil, but his brother’s were righteous."

This bit particularly makes me upset. The parable of Cain and Abel clearly describes the transition of humanity from hunter-gatherer to farmer. It appears that Godde prefers hunter-gatherers to farmers, for very good environmental reasons, it turns out, but we never read it like that.
 
1 John 4

John cautions against false prophets and stresses the importance of declaring Jesus to be the Christ.

Christians loving Christians continues as a major theme in this chapter. Perfect love drives out fear and we can have confidence in the day of judgement.

John contrasts the worldly with the spiritual.
 
Snoopy is finding John to be quite repetitive in his Epistles. John never got the memo that less can be more in communication. :)

He has a few key points to drive home and he makes these points over and over.
 
paradox3 said:
Snoopy is finding John to be quite repetitive in his Epistles. :)

He has a few key points to drive home and he makes these points over and over.
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I agree with this ---and I think for the Spiritual person these points are very crucial to drive home over and over until the spiritual person realizes who they are in Christ and the power and authority they have being a heir of all spiritual blessings and Character that is there for them -----it takes much work and steadfast rooted Faith in Christ to obtain that status ----and John knows this and is driving it home over and over again -----

Testing the Spirits
The first line in 1 John 4 ---is about Spiritual Discernment which comes by way of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit to know the difference between good and bad spirits -----

I say --------Discernment of Spirits is one of the 9 gifts of the Holy Spirit which is not given to everyone ----


AI
The 9 gifts of the Holy Spirit, as described in 1 Corinthians 12:8-10, are: the word of wisdom, the word of knowledge, faith, gifts of healing, working of miracles, prophecy, discerning of spirits, various kinds of tongues, and interpretation of tongues.
These gifts are supernatural abilities that the Holy Spirit gives to believers to serve God and build up the church.


I say

It is so important for Christians to know the Scriptures very well so they know whether what is being preached is the truth or is in error ------

Verse 5 --gives a description of a False Prophet ----

5 They [who teach twisted doctrine] are of the world and belong to it; therefore they speak from the [viewpoint of the] world [with its immoral freedom and baseless theories—demanding compliance with their opinions and ridiculing the values of the upright], and the [gullible one of the] world listens closely and pays attention to them.


I say ----today in many Churches there are many Ministers who fall under verse 5 -----


Verse 6 gives a description a true Prophet -----

6 We [who teach God’s word] are from God [energized by the Holy Spirit], and whoever knows God [through personal experience] listens to us [and has a deeper understanding of Him].

also in verse 6 ---John says unbelievers do not listen to the truth ----so this indicates who is motivated by each spirit
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verse 6 ---- Whoever is not of God does not listen to us. By this we know [without any doubt] the spirit of truth [motivated by God] and the spirit of error [motivated by Satan].


I say -----This goes with the world hates believers -----as was posted in John 3 -----


The last part of this Chapter is about who God is ----God Is Agape

It describes the person who is of God and the person who is not of God ----this is showing the difference between true believers and unbelievers ----or False believers however one wants to frame it ----

The Footnote here is for verse 19 ---From AMP B

1 John 4:19 Because God bestowed on humanity a free will, man is not forced to love Him, but rather consciously and freely chooses the response he makes to God’s love.

Verse 19 says this -------posting as is ------

19 We love, because He first loved us.

20 If anyone says, “I love God,” and hates (works against) his [Christian] brother he is a liar; for the one who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen.

21 And this commandment we have from Him, that the one who loves God should also [unselfishly] love his brother and seek the best for him.


I say ---again showing here the warning to true believers to be weary of all who claim to be true Christians ---know your Scripture well so you know the Truth from Error when you decide to go hear a person Preach ----or be with a group who claim to be true christians ----

The people setting in the pews every Sunday are only being fed what their Minister is feeding them ---so their knowledge of the Scripture is only as good as what is being preached to them ----the people trust their Minister to be honest and upright in the pulpit -and preach Truth ----and so many can be deceived and misled through their ignorance of not knowing the truth of the Scriptures --

We are to rightly divide the Word ----and if you can rightly divide the Word of truth---you certainly can wrongly divide it -----by twisting scripture ---preaching half truths and sugarcoating the real truth -----all bad for the Soul


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1 John 5
The themes of the previous chapters are summed up in chapter 5. But John gives us a few more key points:

Faith is the conquering power of the world.

Jesus Christ is the one who came by water and the blood. The Spirit is the one who testifies because the Spirit is the truth. The Spirit, the water and the blood are in agreement.

John concludes his letter with the promise of eternal life for those who have the Son.
 
I really like 1 John 4 and the Johannine insistence on love/the power of love that carries forward from the Gospel. The idea that fear is the opposite of love is one I first actually ran into during a therapy session 30 years ago (and given how much of my life has been ruled by fear over the years it struck home). ALso the idea that we can only know GOd if we love is very powerful. While many might see that John is talking about loving those who are part of the community I read the commandment to love each other as quite logically reaching beyond the community, probably in part shaped by passages like love your enemy and Matthew 25's parable of the sheep and the goats, and Luke's Good Samaritan.
 
Fear is said by some to be the source of most anger. We usually view anger as the more powerful emotion, but according to this framework, fear is often behind it.
 
paradox3 said:
Fear is said by some to be the source of most anger. We usually view anger as the more powerful emotion, but according to this framework, fear is often behind it.
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I do think that anger is most often a secondary response but we have to remember that it is a response that can be borne out of love or a sense of justice as well. There has been a tendency to say anger is a negative when really that is because it is enacted in a negative way
 
GordW said:
I do think that anger is most often a secondary response but we have to remember that it is a response that can be borne out of love or a sense of justice as well.
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I agree here with GordW -----

There is certainly righteous anger ----God is Agape and shows his Just anger many times in the Old testament and Jesus shows it with the money changers in the temple yard ---

This anger keeps you out of sin and bring you to a right outcome in line with God's will ==
 
Part of the difficulty with the topic of anger is that a single word (anger) is used for a huge range of emotion.

Everything from disappointment/ irritation/ frustration through to rage. And the subject is complicated by questions of justified and/ or righteous anger.

To say nothing of the difficulty discerning appropriate and inappropriate ways to express anger.

It's quite a topic.
 
Question ---is it OK to comment on 2 and 3 John -----or do you want it to end with your postings ---- :angel:
 
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