The Status and Role of Women in Jesus' and Paul's Ministry

[Northwind]

So apparently Mystic is unable or unwilling to explain how current "Christians" can subjugate women in the name of Jesus.

I'm also curious why he would allegedly follow such a woke leader as Jesus.

 

[Waterfall]

History is written by the winners and the winner is late antiquity was patriarchy. that means that we must rely on sparse allusions to the massive contribution of female disciples and leaders to the growth of the Church. Indeed, the point of this thread is to flesh out that scattered sparce evidence.
So there is no explicit evidence of women serving Communion, performing baptisms or leading specific churches.

However, all churches are house churches in the first 2 centuries; and women were usually in charge of household affairs. So it seems likely that they led house church worship and served Communion as part of their agape meals. Baptism was by immersion in the early church. So it seems plausible that women would play an active role in immersing other women. For a more detailed response, read this article on the 5 ways women participated in the early church:

ttps://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/5-ways-women-participated-in-the-early-church/

Thanks.
(P.s. I couldn't access the article)

 

[unsafe]

Eve brought subjugation of women into play when she sinned against God -----that was part of Eve's Curse that God bestowed on her for her sin -----

Genesis 3:16
​

To the woman he said,

“I will make your pains in childbearing very severe;
with painful labor you will give birth to children.
Your desire will be for your husband,
and he will rule over you.”

Before Eve sinned ----they were of Equal status ----the man did not rule over the woman they were both to equally Love and support one another and equally help each other look after the earth ----

You need to understand that Jesus did what His Father told Him to do and say He did not come to remove the Curse over women that His Father put on Eve ----But Jesus did start challenging traditional gender roles and views on the status of women when He walked this earth --and showed men that women were valuable and deserved respect in God's eyes ----

The Curse Eve brought on all Females is wanting power and control over Males ---Eve's Curse brough Conflict and Division between male and female each wanting the power and control over the other and many Denominations will use Scripture to say that women are to be submit to their Husbands ---not understanding what the Scripture really means ---

This word submit in the Greek does not mean the men have power and control over women --
Strong's Lexicon

hupotagé: Submission​

Cultural and Historical Background: In the Greco-Roman world, the concept of submission was integral to societal structures, including family, military, and civic life. The idea of submission was not seen as demeaning but as a necessary component of order and harmony. In the early Christian context, submission was redefined through the lens of Christ's example, emphasizing humility, love, and mutual respect.

I say ----The feminist equality movement is still alive and well today and the conflict and discord over control and power between Males and Females continues ---Eve's Curse is still in play --- and will remain until Jesus comes back to rid this earth of all sin for 1,000 years

God has great respect for women ===and His word reflects that ----Mary Magdalene was the first commissioned woman ----Jesus trusted her to go and spread the word about His resurrection ----

So Women are still finding it hard to break into Church leadership roles and some denominations are still not for women in leadership roles in their Churches and so the Power struggle and conflict and division remains ------Jesus coming back will erase all that -----

Peace will reign

 

[Northwind]

So Jesus' message, teachings and behaviours mean nothing then @unsafe? The whole blaming Eve stuff is nonsense. Then revering Mary..... women can only be sinners or saints according to that theology.

 

[Mystic]

So apparently Mystic is unable or unwilling to explain how current "Christians" can subjugate women in the name of Jesus.

That question will be addressed in a timely fashion when I discuss 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 and 1 Timothy 2:11-15.

 

[unsafe]

women can only be sinners or saints according to that theology.

And your so right ---and this is for all people ----males included ---your either a Sinner or a Saint ---you choose what you want to be ---Eve Chose her fate and it it effected all females ---you can think it is foolish all you want to ---and as God says to the Natural human person his word is foolish to them ---

So to you it is foolish nonsense -----and that is fine by me --but that is where this comes from ====

 

[Northwind]

And your so right ---and this is for all people ----males included ---your either a Sinner or a Saint ---you choose what you want to be ---Eve Chose her fate and it it effected all females ---you can think it is foolish all you want to ---and as God says to the Natural human person his word is foolish to them ---

So to you it is foolish nonsense -----and that is fine by me --but that is where this comes from ====

View attachment 10694

That's toxic theology that has demonized women. It is more than foolish nonsense that you spew.

 

[Jaebius]

That question will be addressed in a timely fashion when I discuss 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 and 1 Timothy 2:11-15.

Which will be when?

And your so right ---and this is for all people ----males included ---your either a Sinner or a Saint ---you choose what you want to be ---Eve Chose her fate and it it effected all females ---you can think it is foolish all you want to ---and as God says to the Natural human person his word is foolish to them ---

So to you it is foolish nonsense -----and that is fine by me --but that is where this comes from ====

View attachment 10694

God's love is available to everyone. Eve's story is a story of hope. Jesus came to offer us forgiveness.

Let's all extend grace to one another, recognizing that we're all on a journey of growth. God's Word is a source of wisdom for all who seek it with an open heart

 

[Mystic]

(2) JESUS ON HOW AND HOW NOT TO ACT LIKE A FEMALE DISCIPLE:

38 As Jesus and his disciples were on their way, he came to a village where a woman named Martha opened her home to him. 39 She had a sister called Mary, who sat at the Lord’s feet listening to what he said. 4o But Martha was distracted by all the preparations that had to be made. She came to him and asked, “Lord, don’t you care that my sister has left me to do the work by myself? Tell her to help me!”
41 “Martha, Martha,” the Lord answered, “you are worried and upset about many things, 42 but few things are needed—or indeed only one. Mary has chosen what is better, and it will not be taken away from her (Luke 10:38-42).”

Sitting at the feet is a euphemism for a rabbinic student studying under a rabbi. Jesus is reacting to the rabbinic view that women should neither be taught the words of Torah nor pursue a deeper understanding of spirituality. Mary illustrates Jesus' point that a true female disciple must place her intellectual development as a higher priority than the obligations of housework and food preparation . Secondly, Jesus makes the point that women remain trapped in domestic roles by anxiety over possible criticism for failing to measure up to these patriarchiaclly imposed roles.

 

[Luce NDs]

Now if women are corrupted ... is there a bit of the mother in each man and a bit of the man in each woman? That could explain the binary code and Janus as a character that is just too determined about what he knows of the conflict between the Jew and the lesser power ... be gentile now even if you don't know how to be ...

So much duality it confuses the straight line vectors ... then the psi pops up with ephemeral support ... fey, huh? That's sometimes described as miasma, chaos or a circus ... as what we go through to learn about Ani MU's ... it is messy like many sects are ... its just tobe, because!

Initially we didn't wish to know ... and then we had second thoughts ... was the Pete Principle responsible for the prostitution of the support ring ... ding on!

 

[Northwind]

for failing to measure up to these patriarchiaclly imposed roles.

And yet The Church has been one of the biggest enforcer of patriarchially imposed roles.

 

[Luce NDs]

The trouble with Peder and that Principle ... could lead to howls, etc.

 

[Waterfall]

Do women need freedom from religion?
eg. Christianity

Why Women Need Freedom From Religion

Buy this nontract online. The nontracts below may be read online for personal viewing and reference. They are copyrighted and belong to FFRF. All rights reserved. This material may not be

ffrf.org

 

[Mendalla]

Do women need freedom from religion?
eg. Christianity

Is that what they need? Or do they need religion that is more aligned with them and that treats them equally and with respect, e.g. many schools of modern paganism? Arguably UU'ism, too, given the first principle.

 

[Waterfall]

Is that what they need? Or do they need religion that is more aligned with them and that treats them equally and with respect, e.g. many schools of modern paganism? Arguably UU'ism, too, given the first principle.

I'm just asking. I hear Hinduism is woman friendly but I really don't know that much about it
Seems to me it would be very hard to change Christianity to be more women friendly and a long slow process to change all the imbedded restrictions. I think even women would find it intimidating because if you are raised within the "rules" you would be accused of bastardizing Christianity and shamed.

 

[Mendalla]

I hear Hinduism is woman friendly but I really don't know that much about it

I hear mixed reports, actually. Hinduism is no more a monolith than Christianity and it's embedded in a culture that is very unfriendly to women in many sectors and ways. It might be moreso than the general run of the Abrahamic faiths, but likely less so that the progressive branches of those faiths.

 

[Waterfall]

(2) JESUS ON HOW AND HOW NOT TO ACT LIKE A FEMALE DISCIPLE:

38 As Jesus and his disciples were on their way, he came to a village where a woman named Martha opened her home to him. 39 She had a sister called Mary, who sat at the Lord’s feet listening to what he said. 4o But Martha was distracted by all the preparations that had to be made. She came to him and asked, “Lord, don’t you care that my sister has left me to do the work by myself? Tell her to help me!”
41 “Martha, Martha,” the Lord answered, “you are worried and upset about many things, 42 but few things are needed—or indeed only one. Mary has chosen what is better, and it will not be taken away from her (Luke 10:38-42).”

First of all, she needed Jesus to tell her this?
Why not ask Mary to help herself or ask anyone ....male or female?
Jesus' answer works for Mary....not so much for Martha.

 

[Luce NDs]

There is this light within the female essence (a kind of spirit) that can burn the other essence innet.

Sort of like the definition of anima vs animu's ... order of the Daze? Be very cautious and gentile ... like the Golem the heart may get up and run off ... and this works both ways ... demanding balance! Like the timing wheel in a watch!

 

[Mystic]

First of all, she needed Jesus to tell her this?
Jesus' answer works for Mary....not so much for Martha.

Oh yes, Martha desperately needs exposure to the new liberated woman that Jesus champions.
The rabbinic dictum to avoid teaching women and to speak to them as little as possible does not apply for Jesus. Jesus primarily agrees to be her guest not for dinner, but to disciple. Mary gets this and Martha does not.

But Martha learns what it means for the Son of God to be a unique teacher and healer; and so, it is Martha, not Mary, who races outside to greet Jesus and express her faith in His power after her brother dies and before Jesus raises him from the dead (John 11:20-27).

 

[Northwind]

Blah blah blah Mystic