BetteTheRed
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Apparently the more relaxed you are upon impact, the more likely to minimize damage. I mean, you are teaching kids who are going to fail. Because that is how sentient beings learn.
The Lord's Prayer
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Apparently the more relaxed you are upon impact, the more likely to minimize damage. I mean, you are teaching kids who are going to fail. Because that is how sentient beings learn.
Think the ones we use were created by our praise team. They're great at doing things like that
My understanding of the rosary is that it's just a memory aid device. So no harm no foul
BetteTheRed
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What an interesting statement. A heresy by tradition, is that deemed outside of the acceptable belief system of the catholic (universal) Christian church. Since this specific prayer pattern is Roman Catholic, it can't be heretical.
You can disagree with it. But it's not a heresy to pray the Rosary.
Have even heard of a few Baptists using it
Maybe, that's a good point. In either case, not heretical
Nancy
Well-Known Member
My Roman Catholic husband prays Hail Marys and Our Fathers. It is meaningful to him. And he is very devout. I can't pray out loud with him because he races through them at such a clip, I can hardly understand the words. But I acknowledge our different approaches to prayer, and I try not to judge. (Imperfect me finds other things to judge!!!)
unsafe
Well-Known Member
Just because you believe it is not Heresy ---that does not mean it is not heresy
That is just you believing it is not ---
Strong's Lexicon
hairesis: Sect, faction, heresy
a self-chosen opinion, a religious or philosophical sect, discord or contention.
Usage: In the New Testament, "hairesis" primarily refers to a group or faction that arises from a division or choice, often implying a departure from established doctrine or practice.
Better read this folks====Praying to Mary is a definite departure of from Established Doctrine and so it is heresy
Is prayer to saints / Mary biblical?
Is prayer to saints / Mary biblical? | GotQuestions.org
Is prayer to saints / Mary biblical? Why do Roman Catholics believe in the praying to the saints and Mary?
www.gotquestions.org
The Catechism of the Roman Catholic Church, second edition, seems clear enough that prayers on earth can indeed be directed to Mary:
“When we pray to [Mary], we are adhering with her to the plan of the Father, who sends his Son to save all men. Like the beloved disciple we welcome Jesus’ mother into our homes, for she has become the mother of all the living. We can pray with and to her” (part 4, § 1, ch. 2, art. 2, ¶ 2679, emphasis added)
There are many Catholic prayers to Mary.
I say ---you can read the prayers at the link provided above---
A famous one is the Memorare, which addresses Mary directly and encourages the petitioner to trust in her:
The same is true for another traditional Catholic prayer, “Hail, Holy Queen.” This prayer explicitly calls Mary a “most gracious advocate”:
Praying to Mary and the saints in such a way is unbiblical.
Even in cases in which Mary or a saint is simply being asked to pray on one’s behalf, the practice has no biblical basis.
The Bible nowhere instructs believers in Christ to pray to anyone other than God.
The Bible nowhere encourages, or even mentions, believers asking individuals in heaven for their prayers.
Why, then, do many Catholics pray to Mary and/or saints such as Gertrude, Rita, Sylvester, Vincent, Agnes, etc.? Why do they petition the dead and request their prayers?
Catholics view Mary and the saints as “intercessors” before God. They believe that a saint, who is glorified in heaven, has been perfected in love (including love for us) and has more “direct access” to God than do earthbound sinners. In Catholic thinking, prayers delivered by a saint are more effective than our praying to God directly. This concept is blatantly unbiblical. Hebrews 4:16 tells us that believers here on earth have direct access to God and can “approach the throne of grace with confidence.”
No saint can take Jesus’ place: “There is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus” (1 Timothy 2:5).
There is no one else who can mediate with God for us. Since Jesus is the only mediator, Mary and the saints cannot be mediators. Further, the Bible tells us that Jesus Christ Himself is interceding for us before the Father: “He is able to save completely those who come to God through Him, because He always lives to intercede for them” (Hebrews 7:25). With Jesus Himself interceding for us, why would we need Mary or the saints to intercede for us? Whom would God listen to more readily than His only begotten Son? Romans 8:26–27 says the Holy Spirit is also interceding for us. With the second and third Persons of the Trinity already interceding for us before the Father, why would we need to have Mary or the saints interceding for us?
Let us examine the claim that praying to Mary and the saints is no different than asking someone here on earth to pray for us:
1) Asking other believers (on earth) to pray for us is certainly biblical (2 Corinthians 1:11; Ephesians 1:16; Philippians 1:19; 2 Timothy 1:3). The apostle Paul asks other Christians to pray for him in Ephesians 6:19.
2) The Bible nowhere mentions anyone asking someone in heaven to pray for him or her. The Bible nowhere describes anyone in heaven praying for anyone on earth.
3) The Bible gives absolutely no indication that Mary or the saints can hear our prayers. Mary and the saints are not omniscient. Even glorified in heaven, they are still finite beings with limitations. How could they possibly hear the prayers of millions of people?
4) Whenever the Bible mentions praying to or speaking with the dead, it is in a negative context involving activities the Bible strongly condemns (Leviticus 20:27; Deuteronomy 18:10–13; 1 Samuel 28:7–19).
Praying to Mary or the saints is completely different from asking a friend here on earth to pray for us. Asking people on earth to pray for us has a strong biblical basis; asking the heavenly saints or Mary to pray has no biblical basis whatsoever.
It is wrong to think that God will hear and answer the prayers of St. Jude, for example, over ours.
Scripture teaches that prayer offered to God in faith, according to God’s will, from a redeemed heart will be heard. As an example, “Elijah was a human being, even as we are. He prayed earnestly that it would not rain, and it did not rain on the land for three and a half years. Again he prayed, and the heavens gave rain, and the earth produced its crops” (James 5:17–18).
There is absolutely no scriptural basis to pray to anyone other than God alone. There is no need to, either. Jesus, our Intercessor, has it covered. No one in heaven can mediate on our behalf except for Jesus Christ. Only God can hear and answer prayer. The temple veil was torn in two (Hebrews 10:19–20); the child of God on earth has just as much access to God’s throne of grace, in Jesus’ name, as anyone in heaven (Hebrews 4:16).
paradox3
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Interesting paraphrase of Matthew's version of the Lord's Prayer from The Message.
www.biblegateway.com
Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 6:9-13 - The Message
“The world is full of so-called prayer warriors who are prayer-ignorant. They’re full of formulas and programs and advice, peddling techniques for getting what you want from God. Don’t fall for that nonsense. This is your Father you are dealing with, and he knows better than you what you need...
BetteTheRed
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There's much to love about The Message, but it has slants. What if it said, "This is your parent you are dealing with, and they know better..."
One can use the rosary without praying to Mary, without praying to the saints in heavenJust because you believe it is not Heresy ---that does not mean it is not heresy
That is just you believing it is not ---
Strong's Lexicon
hairesis: Sect, faction, heresy
a self-chosen opinion, a religious or philosophical sect, discord or contention.
Usage: In the New Testament, "hairesis" primarily refers to a group or faction that arises from a division or choice, often implying a departure from established doctrine or practice.
Better read this folks====Praying to Mary is a definite departure of from Established Doctrine and so it is heresy
Is prayer to saints / Mary biblical?
Some Roman Catholics draw a fine line between praying to Mary—which they deny doing—and praying with her. They maintain that a prayer addressed to Mary or the saints is simply a way of asking people in heaven to pray for people on earth and is no different from asking someone here on earth to pray on one’s behalf. Other Catholics readily admit that they pray to Mary and the saints.Is prayer to saints / Mary biblical? | GotQuestions.org
Is prayer to saints / Mary biblical? Why do Roman Catholics believe in the praying to the saints and Mary?www.gotquestions.org
The Catechism of the Roman Catholic Church, second edition, seems clear enough that prayers on earth can indeed be directed to Mary:
“When we pray to [Mary], we are adhering with her to the plan of the Father, who sends his Son to save all men. Like the beloved disciple we welcome Jesus’ mother into our homes, for she has become the mother of all the living. We can pray with and to her” (part 4, § 1, ch. 2, art. 2, ¶ 2679, emphasis added)
There are many Catholic prayers to Mary.
I say ---you can read the prayers at the link provided above---
A famous one is the Memorare, which addresses Mary directly and encourages the petitioner to trust in her:
The same is true for another traditional Catholic prayer, “Hail, Holy Queen.” This prayer explicitly calls Mary a “most gracious advocate”:
Praying to Mary and the saints in such a way is unbiblical.
Even in cases in which Mary or a saint is simply being asked to pray on one’s behalf, the practice has no biblical basis.
The Bible nowhere instructs believers in Christ to pray to anyone other than God.
The Bible nowhere encourages, or even mentions, believers asking individuals in heaven for their prayers.
Why, then, do many Catholics pray to Mary and/or saints such as Gertrude, Rita, Sylvester, Vincent, Agnes, etc.? Why do they petition the dead and request their prayers?
Catholics view Mary and the saints as “intercessors” before God. They believe that a saint, who is glorified in heaven, has been perfected in love (including love for us) and has more “direct access” to God than do earthbound sinners. In Catholic thinking, prayers delivered by a saint are more effective than our praying to God directly. This concept is blatantly unbiblical. Hebrews 4:16 tells us that believers here on earth have direct access to God and can “approach the throne of grace with confidence.”
No saint can take Jesus’ place: “There is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus” (1 Timothy 2:5).
There is no one else who can mediate with God for us. Since Jesus is the only mediator, Mary and the saints cannot be mediators. Further, the Bible tells us that Jesus Christ Himself is interceding for us before the Father: “He is able to save completely those who come to God through Him, because He always lives to intercede for them” (Hebrews 7:25). With Jesus Himself interceding for us, why would we need Mary or the saints to intercede for us? Whom would God listen to more readily than His only begotten Son? Romans 8:26–27 says the Holy Spirit is also interceding for us. With the second and third Persons of the Trinity already interceding for us before the Father, why would we need to have Mary or the saints interceding for us?
Let us examine the claim that praying to Mary and the saints is no different than asking someone here on earth to pray for us:
1) Asking other believers (on earth) to pray for us is certainly biblical (2 Corinthians 1:11; Ephesians 1:16; Philippians 1:19; 2 Timothy 1:3). The apostle Paul asks other Christians to pray for him in Ephesians 6:19.
2) The Bible nowhere mentions anyone asking someone in heaven to pray for him or her. The Bible nowhere describes anyone in heaven praying for anyone on earth.
3) The Bible gives absolutely no indication that Mary or the saints can hear our prayers. Mary and the saints are not omniscient. Even glorified in heaven, they are still finite beings with limitations. How could they possibly hear the prayers of millions of people?
4) Whenever the Bible mentions praying to or speaking with the dead, it is in a negative context involving activities the Bible strongly condemns (Leviticus 20:27; Deuteronomy 18:10–13; 1 Samuel 28:7–19).
Praying to Mary or the saints is completely different from asking a friend here on earth to pray for us. Asking people on earth to pray for us has a strong biblical basis; asking the heavenly saints or Mary to pray has no biblical basis whatsoever.
It is wrong to think that God will hear and answer the prayers of St. Jude, for example, over ours.
Scripture teaches that prayer offered to God in faith, according to God’s will, from a redeemed heart will be heard. As an example, “Elijah was a human being, even as we are. He prayed earnestly that it would not rain, and it did not rain on the land for three and a half years. Again he prayed, and the heavens gave rain, and the earth produced its crops” (James 5:17–18).
There is absolutely no scriptural basis to pray to anyone other than God alone. There is no need to, either. Jesus, our Intercessor, has it covered. No one in heaven can mediate on our behalf except for Jesus Christ. Only God can hear and answer prayer. The temple veil was torn in two (Hebrews 10:19–20); the child of God on earth has just as much access to God’s throne of grace, in Jesus’ name, as anyone in heaven (Hebrews 4:16).
unsafe
Well-Known Member
Jae ---why would you ask God every Sunday to forgive your sins in the Lords Prayer --when your sins have already been forgiven ----that makes no sense ----Unbelievers need to Receive Jesus as their Lord and Saviour to have their sins forgiven --so praying the Lords Prayer does the unbelieving person no good either ----as they need Jesus to be forgiven ---just saying forgive our sins as we forgive others who sin against us ---will not remove their sins ---so it is fruitless and pointless for them to pray that in their prayer -----
An if your a True Christian saying this every Sunday ---then what your saying to God is --I don't believe that Jesus who shed His blood to cover my sins is true ---so you pray every Sunday asking for God to forgive your sins ----Crazy -----in my view --makes absolutely no sense for a true believer to pray this Prayer ----God will not answer a pray on forgiving sin as He has already accomplished forgiveness of sins by and through His Son ---just saying
Jesus is still alive here when He gives this Example of Praying to His Disciples ----No where from Acts on does this prayer get said in Scripture ---just saying
You don't go to hell now for the sins you commit ---you go to hell now for rejecting Jesus who paid the price to deliver you from your sins ----
You can keep saying it all you want to but it is still fruitless and pointless
An if your a True Christian saying this every Sunday ---then what your saying to God is --I don't believe that Jesus who shed His blood to cover my sins is true ---so you pray every Sunday asking for God to forgive your sins ----Crazy -----in my view --makes absolutely no sense for a true believer to pray this Prayer ----God will not answer a pray on forgiving sin as He has already accomplished forgiveness of sins by and through His Son ---just saying
Jesus is still alive here when He gives this Example of Praying to His Disciples ----No where from Acts on does this prayer get said in Scripture ---just saying
You don't go to hell now for the sins you commit ---you go to hell now for rejecting Jesus who paid the price to deliver you from your sins ----
You can keep saying it all you want to but it is still fruitless and pointless
And yet Jesus quotes Psalm 22 on the cross.....one of the 150 Psalms which were memorized and repeated often by ancient Jews and caused them to use a string of beads so they wouldn't miss any......the original rosary?
chansen
Had a point all along
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Okay, but is it more or less heretical than I am?
BetteTheRed
Resident Heretic
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Yes, a rosary is a set of beads, as far as I know the same pattern of large and small beads and knots. The Rosary (and there are several variants according to individual sub-traditions - Dominican vs Benedictine, e.g.) is a set of prescribed prayers.