Snoopy Examines Exodus
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It's true that the Bible doesn't explicitly mention Pharaoh's daughter receiving the Holy Spirit. However, her actions in Exodus 2 show God's mercy. By rescuing Moses, she played a crucial role in God's plan for the Israelites' rescue.
Her story reminds us that God can use anyone to fulfill his purposes. As Christians, we must celebrate God's work in unexpected people. Let's be open to seeing God at work in the lives of those around us, even if they don't fit our expectations.
Blessings.
paradox3
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There are many things that can block us from hearing God's word. I am not convinced all of those things are sinful. YMMV.
Let's consider rabbinic Judaism for a moment. Since the destruction of the second Temple, prayer has replaced animal sacrifice in Judaism.
paradox3
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@Jae
About the Wesley Quadrilateral. You asked me which of the four elements lead me to believe God is at work in others by the spirit.
1. Reason.
2. Experience. Not my personal experience but when I learn about other world faiths and see them practiced.
3. Tradition. The New Creed of the United Church. The inclusive nature of my denomination.
4. Scripture. Jesus would have considered the Samaritans to be "other" would he not?
About the Wesley Quadrilateral. You asked me which of the four elements lead me to believe God is at work in others by the spirit.
1. Reason.
2. Experience. Not my personal experience but when I learn about other world faiths and see them practiced.
3. Tradition. The New Creed of the United Church. The inclusive nature of my denomination.
4. Scripture. Jesus would have considered the Samaritans to be "other" would he not?
paradox3
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Bible Gateway passage: Exodus 14:1-4 - New Revised Standard Version Updated Edition
Crossing the Red Sea - Then the LORD said to Moses, “Tell the Israelites to turn back and camp in front of Pi-hahiroth, between Migdol and the sea, in front of Baal-zephon; you shall camp opposite it, by the sea. Pharaoh will say of the Israelites, ‘They are wandering aimlessly in the land; the...
God hardens Pharoah's heart so that the Egyptians will pursue the Israelites.
Then God will gain glory over Pharoah' and the armies. This the Egyptians will know that the Lord is God.
wow!Thank you for sharing your answer with me, P3.
God has given us the ability to reason, which helps us discern His presence. It’s through reason that we can grasp faith's complexities.
Learning about other world faiths can indeed reveal the Spirit at work. Witnessing others' faith journeys can broaden our grasp of God’s action.
The New Creed reflects the heart of Christ’s message - love. Tradition helps us stay rooted in the faith while also embracing the evolving grasping of God’s work in the world.
Jesus’ interaction with the Samaritans is a great example of breaking down barriers. He showed that God’s love transcends cultural boundaries, inviting us to do the same.
In all these elements, we see a call to love others, reflecting the Good News' inclusive nature. May we continue to seek the Spirit’s guidance in all aspects of our lives, sharing Christ’s love with respect.
Blessings to you on your journey
Redbaron
Pirate fan since the dark ages
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One of the themes of this entire Exodus story is that God takes the side of the oppressed, like the mistreated Israelite slaves in Egypt; and that God works for justice for them. This may reflect a story of a promise to Abraham, as well. But the freeing of slaves likely felt like a huge injustice to the enslavers. (NOW what are we going to do? Who is going to make our bricks!?) Justice for the oppressed usually feels like injustice to the oppressor. Witness, for example, the Civil Rights Movement of the 40's-60's in the US, and the ongoing struggle for the LBGQ2S of today.Bible Gateway passage: Exodus 14:1-4 - New Revised Standard Version Updated Edition
Crossing the Red Sea - Then the LORD said to Moses, “Tell the Israelites to turn back and camp in front of Pi-hahiroth, between Migdol and the sea, in front of Baal-zephon; you shall camp opposite it, by the sea. Pharaoh will say of the Israelites, ‘They are wandering aimlessly in the land; the...www.biblegateway.com
God hardens Pharoah's heart so that the Egyptians will pursue the Israelites.
Then God will gain glory over Pharoah' and the armies. This the Egyptians will know that the Lord is God.
unsafe
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Exactly ---and God will use who He wants to bring about His Plan -----but in the Old Testament the role of the Holy Spirit was to go ahead of people to prepare the way for God's plan to play out and to either lay upon people or to indwell for a short time to give strength or power to the person for to preform a miracle or task that God the Father was trying to bring into manifestation in this physical world ----
For instance -----in 2nd Kings 6 ---- Elisha threw a stick in the river and the Axe Head floated up from the bottom of the Jordan River to the top so it could be retrieved ====Elisha was filled with the Holy Spirit who gave him the Power to preform this -----Now does that mean Elisha was indwelled with the Holy Spirit ---not necessarily ----it could mean that tongues of fire came upon Elijah -----like what happened to the disciples at Pentecost -----when they spoke in different languages to preach the Gospel -----
Thank you for sharing your thoughtful reflection on the Holy Spirit's role in the Old Testament and its connection to the New Testament events. It’s inspiring to see how God’s Spirit has been at work throughout history, preparing the way for his plans.
In the Old Testament, we indeed see the Holy Spirit coming upon individuals for specific tasks, as you mentioned with Elisha in 2 Kings 6. This event shows God’s power. The Spirit’s role was often to equip people for particular moments, showing God’s presence.
In the New Testament, the Holy Spirit’s work expands, especially after Pentecost. The disciples were filled with the Spirit, enabling them to speak in different languages and boldly proclaim the Good News. This event marked a new era where the Spirit indwells believers permanently, guiding us to live out our faith.
As Christians today, we're blessed to have the Holy Spirit dwelling within us, continually working in us to fulfill God’s mission. Let’s remain open to the Spirit’s leading, trusting that she'll equip us for whatever tasks God has prepared for us.
May we always be vessels of God's love, sharing the Good News with those around us. God bless you
GordW
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HOwever we have to remember that Wesley did not envision a square. Scripture was the longest side always. Here is what the UMC has to say:
$name
Wesleyan Quadrilateral Glossary: Defines terms key to Wesleyan theological method, aiding comprehension of its fourfold approach to faith and belief.
www.umc.org
Mendalla
Happy headbanging ape!!
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If he had, he probably would have said "square" not "quadrilateral", which encompasses all four-sided shapes. So maybe a trapezoid with the base being a long side encompassing "Scripture"?
Reason and experience as the sides and tradition as the top, held up by all the others? Or should "reason" be the top, held up/informed by all the others? Probably need to do some reading, eh. 
Thank you, @unsafe, for your question. My feeling's that learning about other faiths and witnessing the faith journeys of non-Christians reveals the Holy Spirit at work in several ways.
First, the Spirit's a guide. When we engage with people of different faiths, we can see her work in fostering respect. This engagement will help us grow in our own faith.
Second, the Spirit's at work in the lives of those who aren't yet Christians, drawing them closer to God. For example, someone might experience a deep love during a difficult time, which they later recognise as the Spirit's presence. These experiences are stepping stones on their journey towards faith in Christ.
Third, by learning about other faiths, we'll better grasp the common human longing for connection with God. This grasping will inspire us to share the message of Christ’s love more effectively. An example of this is a Christian who befriends a person of another faith and through their genuine friendship, both people grow in their respect for each other. The Christian might see the Spirit at work in the way their friend seeks truth, which's a powerful testimony of God’s presence in all lives.
I hope this helps clarify how I feel the Spirit can be revealed through these interactions
That’s a great question, @Waterfall. As a Christian, I believe that the Holy Spirit's indeed active in the world, guiding people towards Christ's truth. The Christian faith holds that the Spirit’s primary role's to point people to Jesus.
In Christianity, the Trinity's concept's unique in that it describes one God in three persons, co-equal and co-eternal. This is different from the Hindu concept of a trinity, which involves three distinct gods with different roles.
Let's approach these discussions with respect, recognising that people from different backgrounds have deeply held beliefs. We Christians are called to share Christ's love with respect, trusting that the Spirit's at work in ways we may not fully grasp
unsafe
Well-Known Member
Question here --what faith are you referring to ----how do you define Faith in a non christian ---do you believe they already have God's faith -----cause there are 3 types of Faith ----so which Faith do you see a Non Christian having ---
I agree the Spirit is a guide--for Born Again People ---- into the Truth of the Scripture and Guides us into the Spiritual knowledge and wisdom of the Scripture and also Guides us to do God's will ---and does give us the gift of Agape to love God and then our neighbour so respect for others is born out of Agape which is a gift of the Holy Spirit to believers but discernment is needed in delivering respect to other Faiths ----
Example ---
Jesus Loved the Pharisees but he certainly didn't respect their belief and actions at times and told them so in no uncertain terms ------and they were classed by Jesus as False Christians --making up their own Doctrine and adding to God's laws
Now Jae --your off the rails here with this Statement ------the Holy Spirit does not and cannot draw non christians closer to God ----this is just False Doctrine -----God the Father has to change their Hardened heart to a Soft heart -----The Holy Spirit cannot do that ------
the holy Spirit does not go around randomly working with non christians -----there is a process to getting the Holy Spirit to work in ones life -----
John 6:44---
AMP
No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him [giving him the desire to come to Me]; and I will raise him up [from the dead] on the last day.
Well you can think that ---
But our longing connection for God does not come from human longing ---it comes from God the Father pulling on our hardened heart to have Him change our heart to a soft heart of acceptance and repentance ----
Jae it is not the grasping that inspires us to share the Gospel it is our Love for God and obeying His Command to go and share the Gospel and His Love ------
the non Christian is called the Natural man in scripture -----and this is what God says about them ---
2 Corinthians 2:14
AMPC
But the natural, nonspiritual man does not accept or welcome or admit into his heart the gifts and teachings and revelations of the Spirit of God, for they are folly (meaningless nonsense) to him; and he is incapable of knowing them [of progressively recognizing, understanding, and becoming better acquainted with them] because they are spiritually discerned and estimated and appreciated.
I Ask ----------Provide the Scriptures showing your beliefs below here -------I don't think you will fine any Scripture to back up your belief ----this is what you want to believe ---but the Scripture says different -----and if your preaching this your giving people false hope -----you need to preach the Truth of the Scripture -----
False belief here Jae ----there is only one God ---one truth --and one way to have the Holy Spirit and that is by accepting Jesus Christ as your Lord and Saviour ------and having the indwelling of the Holy Spirit -----
The Holy Spirit is Holy and is the 3rd person of the Trinity and He cannot be involves with Sinful people ----if God the Father turns His Face from Sinners then so does the Holy Spirit ---as they are one God ---
Jae anyone who rejects Jesus ---rejects the Father and the Holy Spirit as they are one God --
If you reject one you reject them all ----
John 10:30
30 I and the Father are one.”Blessings to you Brother and my hope for you is you rely on Scripture not on your personal thinking -----
paradox3
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Bible Gateway passage: Exodus 14:5-14 - New Revised Standard Version Updated Edition
When the king of Egypt was told that the people had fled, the minds of Pharaoh and his officials were changed toward the people, and they said, “What have we done, letting Israel leave our service?” So he had his chariot made ready and took his army with him; he took six hundred elite chariots...
Pharoah's army and all his chariots (over 600) pursue the Israelites and overtake them. The people are afraid and question Moses's leadership.
Stand firm, Moses tells them. Moses foresees their deliverance from the Egyptians.
"The Lord will fight for you, and you have only to keep still." (v 14)
Thank you, @unsafe, for your thoughts and concerns. It's clear that you've a deep commitment to grasping Scripture's truth. I appreciate your dedication to ensuring that our beliefs and teachings align with God's Word.
Faith's '...being sure about the things that we hope for. ...being sure in our minds about things that we cannot even see. ' - Hebrews 11:1 (EASY). For non-Christians, faith manifests as a belief in something greater, thought it wouldn't be rooted in God's knowledge as revealed in Christ. The journey to faith in Christ begins with God drawing individuals to himself, as you rightly pointed out in John 6:44.
The Holy Spirit indeed plays a crucial role in guiding us Christians into all truth (John 16:13) and empowering us to live out God's will. We also see God's prevenient grace at work in non-Christians' lives, preparing their hearts to receive the Good News.
Let's approach these discussions with love, recognising that God's ways are higher than ours (Isaiah 55:8-9). Our role's to faithfully share the Good News and trust God to work in those who hear it.
Let's continue to seek God's wisdom as we share his love with others. Blessings to you, as we walk faith's journey together
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