Snoopy Examines Exodus
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GordW
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All L really know is that it would have be celebrated and the story of liberation would have been told. The meal may or may not look similar to a modern SEder but would not have been the same.
GordW
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THat is an interpretation. The 2nd and 3rd paragraphs are most certainly a Christian approach to the story, but are also not the only way to view the story from a Christian POV (and certianly not a Jewish POV).
I am not convinced the PAssover and Exodus story are about obedience. They are (IMO) about the God who is there for God's people leading them into freedom.
I'm thinking he would have preferred the lamb idea.
Let's recognize obedience's theme woven throughout these stories. I grasp that God’s acts of rescue call for a response of obedience from his people.
In Exodus, God tells the Israelites to observe the Passover with specific instructions. Their obedience to what God said was a show of their faith. Similarly, the journey through the desert and the giving of the Law at Sinai stress the friendship between God and his people, where obedience's a key component.
The Exodus story teaches us about the importance of responding to God’s grace with obedience. This dual stress on God’s initiative and our response's central to our grasping of the friendship
GordW
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Again Jae that is what you (and many others) see in the story. SOme strands of theology make too big a deal about obedience IMO. I suspect most of them are Christian. Judaism has a long tradition of following Torah and Talmud but also arguing about it with each other and even with G-d.
ANd the relationship shown between G-d and the people in Exodus is not friendship. Friendship does not call for obedience for one thing. Friendship is based on mutual standing for another. [Healthy] friendship does not have moments where one is terrified of the other. ki am not even sure I would use a familial metaphor for the relationship between G-d and people in Exodus, I different metaphor is needed. Possibly ruler and ruled?
ANd the relationship shown between G-d and the people in Exodus is not friendship. Friendship does not call for obedience for one thing. Friendship is based on mutual standing for another. [Healthy] friendship does not have moments where one is terrified of the other. ki am not even sure I would use a familial metaphor for the relationship between G-d and people in Exodus, I different metaphor is needed. Possibly ruler and ruled?
Would like to offer a perspective that aligns with my theological grasp. My feeling's that obedience to God's rooted in a relationship of covenant and grace. Pastoring here in Korea for the past three years or so, I've come to most commonly call said relationship friendship because friendship's a word easily grasped by my congregation, all of whom have English as their second language.
Covenant's concept's central to my faith, reflecting a mutual commitment between God and his people. This friendship's about love.
The friendship between God and the people in Exodus's much more than one of ruler and ruled. God's a loving friend. The fear of God mentioned in the Scriptures's a profound awe. This awe's born from recognizing God’s Kingship.
The God-human friendship's unique. This love-marked friendship doesn't negate the obedience due to God
GordW
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HOwever in the covenants GOd makes from Noah through to Sinai God offers and fulfills whether the people are obedient or faithful to their side of the agreement or not. It is all grace, obedience is not required (which feeds really well into the Christ-event and [some] Christian theology).
Only when we get to the Deuteronmistic Historian source will we get the idea of a conditional covenant. In that source (largely found in Deuteronomy through Kings IIRC) we get the idea of a conditional covenant, one where the gift of the land may be revoked if the people fail to live into the covenant. this theological position then surfaces in many of the Prophetic books as well.
Only when we get to the Deuteronmistic Historian source will we get the idea of a conditional covenant. In that source (largely found in Deuteronomy through Kings IIRC) we get the idea of a conditional covenant, one where the gift of the land may be revoked if the people fail to live into the covenant. this theological position then surfaces in many of the Prophetic books as well.
Thank you for sharing your reflection on the covenants in Scripture.
Let's recognize that while God’s grace's unconditional, his people's response's significant. For example, the covenant at Sinai includes the giving of the Law, which serves as a guide for holy living. The Law calls God's people to live in a way that reflects their friendship with Him.
As you said, the Deuteronomistic history introduces conditionality's concept. This is seen in passages like Deuteronomy 28, where blessings and curses are outlined based on Israel’s obedience or lack thereof. This conditional aspect emphasizes the seriousness of living in covenant faithfulness.
In the NT, we see the fulfillment of these covenants in Christ. Jesus embodies perfect obedience and fulfills the Law on our behalf. Through His life, death, and resurrection, we're brought into a new grace-marked friendship with God, one that's empowered by God the Spirit
Blessings to you as we continue to reflect on these profound truths
paradox3
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Bible Gateway passage: Exodus 12:29-32 - New Revised Standard Version Updated Edition
The Tenth Plague: Death of the Firstborn - At midnight the LORD struck down all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh who sat on his throne to the firstborn of the prisoner who was in the dungeon and all the firstborn of the livestock. Pharaoh arose in the night, he...
At midnight, God kills all the firstborn in Egypt. Death visits all households and a loud cry goes up.
Pharoah summons Aaron and Moses and tells them to leave with the Israelites, their flocks and their herds.
Pharoah requests a blessing.
paradox3
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Snoopy's Snappy Review: Exodus 12: 29-32
Snoopy still doesn't understand why God kept hardening Pharoah's heart.
Were 10 plagues desirable to God for some reason? Why didn't God persuade Pharoah to change his mind earlier???
Snoopy reads this tribal God as bent on destruction.
Snoopy still doesn't understand why God kept hardening Pharoah's heart.
Were 10 plagues desirable to God for some reason? Why didn't God persuade Pharoah to change his mind earlier???
Snoopy reads this tribal God as bent on destruction.
The hardening of Pharaoh’s heart shows God’s power. In Exodus, God states that he hardened Pharaoh’s heart to show his signs and wonders in Egypt. This was to ensure that both the Egyptians and the Israelites would recognize his power.Snoopy's Snappy Review: Exodus 12: 29-32
Snoopy still doesn't understand why God kept hardening Pharoah's heart.
Were 10 plagues desirable to God for some reason? Why didn't God persuade Pharoah to change his mind earlier???
Snoopy reads this tribal God as bent on destruction.
The ten plagues were needed to fulfill God’s purpose of rescuing the Israelites from bondage. Each plague was a direct challenge to Egypt's gods, showing that Israel's God was the one true God. Through these events, God showed his justice and mercy.
It’s also worth noting that Pharaoh chose to resist letting the Israelites go. This resistance let God’s plan unfold in a way that would leave no doubt about his power.
Grasping these events requires faith, even when God's ways are beyond our grasp.
Blessings to you
Redbaron
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It takes time to build up to a climax like this.Snoopy's Snappy Review: Exodus 12: 29-32
Snoopy still doesn't understand why God kept hardening Pharoah's heart.
Were 10 plagues desirable to God for some reason? Why didn't God persuade Pharoah to change his mind earlier???
Snoopy reads this tribal God as bent on destruction.
Besides, this way makes a great story for future generations.
What if it wasn't God hardening Pharaoh's heart through the plagues, but God trying to break through to remove the hardness from Pharoahs heart?Snoopy's Snappy Review: Exodus 12: 29-32
Snoopy still doesn't understand why God kept hardening Pharoah's heart.
Were 10 plagues desirable to God for some reason? Why didn't God persuade Pharoah to change his mind earlier???
Snoopy reads this tribal God as bent on destruction.
Pharoah finally sees the need to change his thinking.
Number 10 is the number of completeness and divine order in the Bible.
paradox3
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This is an appealing thought. But Exodus states in several places that God hardened Pharoah's heart throughout the plagues in Egypt.
Agreed.
Yes I took that into consideration, God's plagues certainly caused Pharoah to hunker down with his position and I was thinking it might be seen by the Israelites as God hardening Pharoahs heart and reported that way, but is that the God we worship? Isn't it we ourselves that hardens our own heart when we don't let God:s love in?
paradox3
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Bible Gateway passage: Exodus 12:33-42 - New Revised Standard Version Updated Edition
The Exodus: From Rameses to Succoth - The Egyptians urged the people to hasten their departure from the land, for they said, “We shall all be dead.” So the people took their dough before it was leavened, with their kneading bowls wrapped up in their cloaks on their shoulders. The Israelites had...
The Egyptians urge the Israelites to leave quickly. In their haste, the bread does not have time to rise. The Israelites plunder the people of Egypt. As God directed earlier, they ask for jewelry of gold and silver & clothing.
The exodus begins. 430 years have passed since the Israelites arrived in Egypt. God keeps vigil.
This is a night to be remembered for all time.
jimkenney12
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This happened at least 400 years before it was written down. The plundering is a strange event, especially considering what happens next. Maybe the plundering was a mistake though it might have happened much earlier in their history
Let's consider the context of Exodus 12:33-42. The passage describes the Israelites’ departure from Egypt after enduring years of slavery. The Egyptians willingly gave them articles of silver, gold, and clothing. This act must be seen as a reparation for the years of suffering the Israelites endured.Snoopy's Snappy Review: Exodus 12: 33-42
Interesting that God approves of plunder.
I grasp that God’s actions and commands are always just, even though they seem perplexing at times. The plundering must be viewed as God’s way of ensuring that his people were provided for as they embarked on their journey to the Promised Land. It also serves reminds us of God’s Kingship and his ability to turn people's hearts to fulfill his purposes.
In faith, I trust that God’s ways are higher than ours and his thoughts higher than ours. It’s through reflecting on these passages that we'll grow in our grasp of his justice
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