What Legacy Does Trump Leave?

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WhyCzar said:
Someone a few thousand years ago wrote that there is nothing new under the sun.

"Both Mussolini and Hitler arose from the left, both were considered progressive, and both had strong support from the health establishment, the wealthy, the Economist, and the New York Times."
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Who was quoted here? Since when do industrialists pick leftists? This quote seems like a fantasy or delusion to me. Health establishments are almost always very conservative. How was left defined here?
 
WhyCzar said:
I agree with @Mendalla that the right-left spectrum (almost*) needs to be left out of the discussion.

It is important to note that many scholars do not regard fascism to be a solely right-wing or left-wing affliction. It may have elements of both sides of the spectrum.

Mussolini himself described fascism as a movement that would strike “against the backwardness of the right and the destructiveness of the left”.

*almost ( "real potential fascists in the US, try the right wing thinktanks, many of whom are hoping to gain influence in a Trump government." )
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There is one expression that says corruption, evil or power is among us ... is it a mule of something alternate? Consider the roots of the word Sam ...

In essence what can we say we know of this understanding when a popular expression is that understanding, knowledge and all that crap is foul ... and then we get overly emotion in our responses ... disconnection? That blew it ... maybe the Ra fuse ... is it all God's creation of some from the darker side?

Reconsider whether the dark shades are mysterious ... needing enlightenment in the down hole ... ever consider those mine ponies ...
 
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WhyCzar said:
Sadly, people have conflated "fascism" with the political right.

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I am not conflating fascism with the political right. Moderate conservatives tend to be ardent defenders of democracy and freedom for everyone. Fascism goes with the kind of nationalism which defines the kind of people who are true citizens of the nation. In North America, extreme nationalism usually defines true citizens as white Anglophone males with white women as almost citizens except... It is authoritarianism which puts the survival and well being of the collective of true citizens above all else.

Sadly some people have confused authoritarianism with the left.
 
jimkenney12 said:
I am not conflating fascism with the political right. Moderate conservatives tend to be ardent defenders of democracy and freedom for everyone. Fascism goes with the kind of nationalism which defines the kind of people who are true citizens of the nation. In North America, extreme nationalism usually defines true citizens as white Anglophone males with white women as almost citizens except... It is authoritarianism which puts the survival and well being of the collective of true citizens above all else.

Sadly some people have confused authoritarianism with the left.
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In short without balanced desire to know and be reasonable ... all is chaos! Now one might guess at what deficient ... thus fuzzy holes in the wholly system!

Has anyone noted any human flaws?
 
jimkenney12 said:
Who was quoted here? Since when do industrialists pick leftists? This quote seems like a fantasy or delusion to me. Health establishments are almost always very conservative. How was left defined here?
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I think the emphasis needs to be on "rose from the left". They presented as socialists and got the support of groups like workers (white gentile ones, anyhow), but were certainly not traditional leftists once in power, especially Hitler. Even in the modern situation, you have Trump presenting as both a classic right-wing corporatist GOP candidate and a supporter of the working class, which became part of his base in some swing states.
 
@jimkenney12

Authoritarians on both sides of the political divide tended to score higher on measures of dogmatism and prejudice against political rivals.

New research points to several important differences between left-wing and right-wing authoritarians. For instance, left-wing authoritarians consistently scored higher than their right-wing counterparts on measures of neuroticism, belief in science, and willingness to ban opposing views.

Those who scored higher on the measure of left-wing authoritarianism were also more likely to have used force on behalf of a political cause within the last five years and to have participated in violent protests during the summer of 2020.

“Our study doesn’t mean that left-wing authoritarianism and right-wing authoritarianism are equally prevalent or equally dangerous (in the U.S. or elsewhere),” Costello said. “It doesn’t mean that there is a moral equivalence across the far-left and far-right. We simply show that (1) left-wing authoritarianism exists and (2) left-wing authoritarianism and right-wing authoritarianism seem to overlap quite a bit. Readers should not use our paper to score political points (though, sadly, they almost certainly will). ”


The study, “Clarifying the Structure and Nature of Left-wing Authoritarianism“, was authored by Thomas H. Costello, Shauna M. Bowes, Sean T. Stevens, Irwin D. Waldman, Arber Tasimi, and Scott O. Lilienfeld.
 
How did they find, identify, and analyse their subjects? I am curious about which higher scoring left wing authoritarians had the opportunity to use force in the last five years on behalf of a political cause.
 
I’m going to say that hoping a third party candidate wins in a democratic election isn’t irrational, but it is improbable. There are no good choices. Trump apologists defecting to RFK might be a good thing. And Biden is a terrible choice - he’s not a safe leader by any rational measure. It’s just that he’s less like Hitler than Trump. He’s still a war hawk. He still supports extreme neoliberal capitalism (what we’ve had since Reagan/ Thatcher) and all the environmental dangers, poverty, and injustices wrought by it. He’s as bad as RayGun and Thatcher - which at one time, lots of those pulling for Biden now, thought were dangerous. The public’s memory is short.

I have similar feelings about Trudeau/ Pollievre. I’d rather vote no confidence than vote Liberal. There are other choices - but the NDP is also awful. So are the Greens. Because I believe Bill C7 is genocidal and no parties have really put much effort into listening to me and many thousands sound the alarm. Any party that supports or ignores the genocidal nature of Bill C7 is dangerous.

But the idea that, in the US, Trump’s personality does not present a particularly acute and different type of danger, is just naive.
 
With the simple trashing of empathy (sentient to pain) we have become suicidal as Sam Aryan! T many uncle Sam ... as we give up dah soul ... blind following ... the Shadow?
 
@Kimmio Laughterlove

“In principle, the Conservative Party opposes euthanasia and assisted suicide,” said the policy motion approved by delegates. “Furthermore, we oppose the extension of euthanasia and assisted suicide (MAiD) to minors, to people who are not competent and people who live with psychological suffering.”

The policy reaffirms what has been on the books for the Conservatives since 2018
 
In the theory of 2's ... there is the eye for the eye ... without that depth perception is impossible ... put a pair of these out there and you might see both ways ... and thus the past might make sense of not rushing into an excessive economy ...

This later item may test the future of what is ... the presence of intelligence? Nah do as you will ...
 
WhyCzar said:
@Kimmio Laughterlove

“In principle, the Conservative Party opposes euthanasia and assisted suicide,” said the policy motion approved by delegates. “Furthermore, we oppose the extension of euthanasia and assisted suicide (MAiD) to minors, to people who are not competent and people who live with psychological suffering.”

The policy reaffirms what has been on the books for the Conservatives since 2018
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Uh huh

They also have a habit of opposing funding to all the services that people need - including universal healthcare and better social welfare funding. So the rich who can buy their supports get them, and fk everyone else - such policies work for the 1% corporate class nicely but they bait the lower classes of their electorate with simple memes and tropes about religion and family so they’ll vote against their own interests and those who also struggle but who are different from them (not white let’s say) - and are baited into blaming those “outsiders”…they are a very conformist traditionalist party at heart - and they share that with fascists - harkening back to the good old days and white European norms . How people can’t see through Pollievre since he ditched his glasses makes no sense. And I’ll hedge my bets that they will dance around changing the law back to pre bill C7 if they get in. They’ll stick with the budget sheet that shows it saves money and covertly ramp it up. The Conservatives also are dangerous to women’s rights. Being anti-C7 doesn’t have to be antiabortion. Now the liberals and cons have set up that false dichotomy on each side.
 
Human rights…many that people take for granted and will be regretful if they disappear, arose from the left. Opposition to fascism arose from the left. The Cons love to conflate Hitler’s National Socialist Party (because fascism is socialism for nationalists, especially white nationalists - they get the good stuff, fk everybody else) - with democratic socialism. And their electorate buys it with no thought - they buy the spin and give the fascists votes. It’s a political tactic, to hide behind a name and hope those who are undereducated or unaware buy into it. It’s why there’s been such an emphasis from the far right to encourage the phrase “but I’m a classical liberal”.

Using the very long played tactic… It’s how the BC Liberals adopted the word liberal in name only when they’re actually Conservative, when the voting public was more apt to define as liberal and assumed that was a safe home for some progressives. And they changed their name recently to BC United hoping to absorb or bring back into their party those who were Alliance Party type federal conservatives and Danielle Smith style Wild Rose Party style conservatives now that conservatism is seeing an upswing.

Last time they had power here they absolutely gutted the health and social welfare systems by selling them out to private enterprise, and sold the province out to wealthy investors - and in large part caused the housing crisis and all that stems from that. The federal liberals are pretty much on par now with what the BC Liberals were 10-20 years ago - they’ve moved further right - they are a moderate tinge fascist themselves. And the Conservatives are a full colour block fascist.

Fascism does not stem from the left. Antifascism does. And Trudeau is not left, if we ever thought so, he either changed or we were fooled - but currently there’s no rational justification for saying he has truly left wing values. And since this thread is for US politics - the same goes for Biden.

…the world is in a mighty pickle.
 
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Because Trump so much worse than that because not only is he narcissistic and fascist, he’s a careless nincompoop with an inexplicable manipulative “charm” for lack of a better word - some see charm some see snake oil - and the world will collapse on itself if he gets back in, and many of those who voted for him will be wailing in misery a year or two after he gets in and still join him in scapegoating somebody or something else en masse.

The apocalyptic minded religious folks want their dark fantasy to come true @Luce NDs they may think they control God.

I would be so happy if he was sentenced to life in any golfing resort(s) of his choice. He can even have expensive sheets, tacky gold leaf furniture, a pool and servants, women in bikinis (who must freely apply for the job with fair terms and conditions and decent pay - no p**** grabbing) who feed him grapes, fan him and serve Big Macs and bottomless cokes with little drink umbrellas, for all I care - just not be president.
 
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