Jews or Jewish people?

[paradox3]

Which term would you use to refer to a couple of colleagues? Say it was relevant to a conversation. Maybe they are talking about a Purim party this weekend. So there's context.

I have been spending some time lurking on Jewish forums recently.
Someone wonders why Christians call them Jewish people instead of Jews. After all, we call ourselves Christians.

Are we thinking of the places in our NT that say 'The Jews"? It is often pejorative when it shows up.

Comments about two Jews at work are different than "The Jews" as used in the NT. But could this be the source of our custom to say Jewish people rather than Jews?

 

[Mendalla]

Hm. Not sure. I think that I have seen both used. Don't know any to ask, either.

 

[Mendalla]

Though I guess I usually see "Jews" as the plural and "Jewish people" as the collective for them as an ethnic/religious group.

 

[paradox3]

Would you say, "I know two Jews at work who are going to a Purim party this weekend."?

Or would you say 'I know two Jewish people at work who are going to a Purim party this weekend."?

 

[paradox3]

I think I would talk about my two Jewish colleagues rather than say "two Jews at work". Saying "two Jews" seems vaguely rude to me but it shouldn't be.

 

[Mendalla]

Would you say, "I know two Jews at work who are going to a Purim party this weekend."?

Or would you say 'I know two Jewish people at work who are going to a Purim party this weekend."?

As I said, could be "either" though when you put it that way, I might do the latter. Not sure that's for a good reason, though. Just how I am used to saying it.

 

[Mendalla]

I mean, would you say my son and d-i-l are "Muslims" or "Muslim people". I think you'd say "Muslims." Why would we do it different for Judaism?

 

[paradox3]

I mean, would you say my son and d-i-l are "Muslims" or "Muslim people". I think you'd say "Muslims." Why would we do it different for Judaism?

Exactly. We don't say Christian people either and I think this is why it was questioned in the Jewish forum.

But I know my usual thing is to use the adjective (Jewish) rather than the noun (Jew).

Jewess for Jewish woman is becoming offensive as I understand it. But it is also being reclaimed and used ironically in some circles.

 

[Mendalla]

Jewess for Jewish woman is becoming offensive as I understand it.

Yeah, I haven't heard that one in a long time. Mostly just see it in old books. Rather like "Mohammadan" for "Muslim" back when Christians seemed to think Muslims saw Muhammad the same way they see Christ, as a God to be worshipped. Which is absolutely quite incorrect.

 

[paradox3]

On a related note it is also wrong to think of Hanukkah as a Jewish Christmas. Or even to lump it in with other festivals of light & the winter solstice.

It is about victory in war.

 

[Mendalla]

Yeah, the association of Hannukah with Christmas is purely a calendar one. They don't exactly coincide either given their lunar calendar doesn't line up perfectly with our mostly solar one. While Muslims acknowledge Jesus' virgin birth (but don't attribute it to him being divine) they don't really celebrate it. Their big feast day is coming up soon, actually. Eid al-Fitr, then end of the Ramadan fast, starts the evening of April 9 this year. Again, the whole lunar calendar thing makes Ramadan and Eid float against our calendar. Ramadan runs from New Moon to New Moon, in fact.

 

[paradox3]

I read a very funny satirical piece by a Jewish blogger. She wondered how Christians were going to cope with Yom St. Valentines and Ash Fourth day both falling on February 14 this year.

One calls for fasting (although Christians don't fast by abstaining from all food and water). The other calls for rich food like chocolate.

What to do? They will need to consult their Christian rabbis. She also wondered why the Christian rabbIs didn't adjust the calendar.

 

[Mendalla]

Let's face it, most modern Christians don't take their fasting that seriously. Maybe just give up one indulgence for Lent or something. "Giving up for Lent" is almost a joke now.

Muslims don't eat or drink between sunrise and sunset for a month. Now that's fasting. And, yes, they really do it. I was talking to one last night (right after he broke fast after sunset).

 

[paradox3]

Let's face it, most modern Christians don't take their fasting that seriously. Maybe just give up one indulgence for Lent or something. "Giving up for Lent" is almost a joke now.

Muslims don't eat or drink between sunrise and sunset for a month. Now that's fasting. And, yes, they really do it. I was talking to one last night (right after he broke fast after sunset).

I know. It's especially grueling when Ramadan falls in the summer. The hot weather and longer days make the fast especially challenging.

 

[jimkenney12]

In 2017, Ramadan fell in June or early July. Our daughter, her Muslim husband, B and I were on a canoe trip on the Milk River in Southern Alberta. He would get up very early to eat a meal before sunrise, then prepare his own meal for after sunset. Longest days of the year. We had lots of rain the first evening through to the next morning.

I discovered he did not know how to canoe and our daughter had forgotten. It was a good thing the first part was mostly easy canoeing so they could develop skill.

I made two trips on the Churchill River. Two longish ones on the Bow River, many lakes, the Red Deer River. Sturgeon River, other rivers, and the ocean and the Milk River is my favourite. It is a sacred place.

 

[Mendalla]

He would get up very early to eat a meal before sunrise

Yeah, that's what Little M is doing. And he's starting work early and resting late in the afternoon. The VP of their division (and co-founder of the original startup) is Muslim as well so there's some support for it there.

 

[BetteTheRed]

I think I would always use Jewish people versus Jews, and I know that it's completely about the new testament translations that use "the Jews" rather indiscriminately.

 

[Pavlos Maros]

Would you say, "I know two Jews at work who are going to a Purim party this weekend."?

Or would you say 'I know two Jewish people at work who are going to a Purim party this weekend."?

I wouldn't specify whether my colleagues were Jewish or how many of them there were.

It would be "Some of my colleagues are going to a Purim festival this weekend.
It would not matter to me whether they were Jewish, Christian, Muslim, Hindus, or Pastafarian. There religion isn't relevant to the statement, unless you are showing a bias.
I would do the very same if they were going to a Diwali festival. Another person may ask after what a Purim/Diwali festival was or is that a religious festival. And then and only them would I need to specify what religion it is. The same thing applies to the colour of someones skin.
How we speak is how we show our biases.
So in answer to your question Jews or Jewish isn't really relevant unless they say it. And then it is only relevant to them.
If someones says to us "I'm Jewish I'm a Jew or I'm Christian, I'm a Muslim." we should say oh ok. It's not really relevant to our part of the conversation.
We are being divisive if we use their terms to refer to them. But sadly we all have to do it sometimes.

 

[paradox3]

I wouldn't specify whether my colleagues were Jewish or how many of them there were.

It would be "Some of my colleagues are going to a Purim festival this weekend.
It would not matter to me whether they were Jewish, Christian, Muslim, Hindus, or Pastafarian. There religion isn't relevant to the statement, unless you are showing a bias.

If the colleagues were heading out to a hockey game I would agree with you. Their faith perspective would be totally irrelevant

With the Purim festival, I have probably mentioned it it because it interests me from a religious or cultural point of view. To say the colleagues are Jewish provides context.

 

[Pavlos Maros]

If the colleagues were heading out to a hockey game I would agree with you. Their faith perspective would be totally irrelevant

With the Purim festival, I have probably mentioned it it because it interests me from a religious or cultural point of view. To say the colleagues are Jewish provides context.

Point is let the other person do that.
For instance how you reply to whomever you are speaking to, once they ask "What is a Purim festival" or if they already know "Are they Jewish".
Look at it this way. Americans have different names for their populous. I.E. African Americans, Latin Americans, Chinese Americans. by specifying there ethnicity they are segregating them, and showing a bias. Whereas they are all Americans.
You segregate them, when you specify their religion. So let the other person do that. and remain unbiased.