Luke 6: A Verse (or Two) at a Time

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Mendalla said:
I think it shows his humanity. He has a bad temper, or so it seems, that sometimes overrides his own moral sense and teaching. You'd think "God" would be better at checking his feelings and keeping this on point. OR, he does intend for things like "Do unto others..." to apply only within his community and not to those outside, which is basically favoritism or even elitism, also a sign of human failing, IMHO.
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Jesus is the light ... he can flame too ... why the spirit became human in transpiration ... just how it occ urred!
 
paradox3 said:
Here's another example.
Some people value direct, honest communication. Others prefer more conciliatory language along with the directness. Still others like to avoid confrontation at any cost.

Say three such people have a disagreement. Doing unto each other is going to get tricky.
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Something with come forth from that ... leaving the duo ... de Deus?
 
Mendalla said:
The key being that the ones with high self-esteem probably had parents, teachers, etc. who manifested love and kindness and those with low self-esteem likely came from cold, distant families or social scenes OR were bullied without getting support from adults. IOW, if we want children to have high self-esteem and a positive image of God, we ourselves need to manifest those values that we see in that positive image. We don't develop values on our own but learn them from what we see and experience around us.
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Gives reason for flawed denial ... and someone will run with that ... an astute study like Mary Trump's comments on the greatest of the man-Uncle ...
 
paradox3 said:
Good morning everyone. Thanks so much for your participation in this Lenten bible study.

Here is Luke 6: 32-34
www.biblegateway.com

Bible Gateway passage: Luke 6:32-34 - New Revised Standard Version Updated Edition

“If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them. If you do good to those who do good to you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners do the same. If you lend to those from whom you expect to receive payment, what credit is that to you...
www.biblegateway.com www.biblegateway.com

What is wrong with loving those who love us and doing good for each other? Jesus is quick to say that sinners do the same. It seems to me that He is missing something here. These are hallmarks of healthy relationships.

He is probably trying to say we are called to do more than this in our lives. Is He thinking of service to others & getting out of our comfort zones?

What is wrong with expecting to have a loan repaid? Maybe it is the aspect of receiving interest on the money (v.34) that bothers Jesus. Doesn't the Torah forbid God's people from charging each other interest?
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Imagine a sacred soul-spirit connection ... assuming humans are spiritually based in the essence ... it eliminates a purely physicist docketing ... a more expansive perspective must be assimilated! Yet we seem so limited as immortalized ... thus cut off!
 
paradox3 said:
He is probably trying to say we are called to do more than this in our lives. Is He thinking of service to others & getting out of our comfort zones?
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I agree. I think he's calling people out of passive acceptance. If you're lucky enough to have been born in comfortable circumstances, there's an irresistible temptation to try and be a nice person, hang out with your own cultural/social group, follow all the rules, and not rock the boat.

I think we're called into active questioning and challenging, meeting people who make us uncomfortable and trying to figure out how they got to where they are.
 
Yeah, and I think the opening question makes that clear. "If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you?" is basically asking if doing what's expected (loving those who love you, ya da ya da) is enough. And he then answers his own question by suggesting it is not because even sinner can do that much.
 
Mendalla said:
Yeah, and I think the opening question makes that clear. "If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you?" is basically asking if doing what's expected (loving those who love you, ya da ya da) is enough. And he then answers his own question by suggesting it is not because even sinner can do that much.
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Even though we're all sinners.
 
I get what He is saying about extending ourselves but these verses feel like Jesus is dismissing loving relationships. They still take effort and call for ethical behavior, do they not?
 
I think he was saying you do not get right with God by all the things he listed. Being nice to those with whom you have good mutual relationships does not mark you as a follower since everyone else does that too. You are not doing God any favours in those ways.
 
Jesus does have a way of over emphasizing a point & may we take him too literally sometimes. I am thinking of the parable of the unjust judge where the widow gets her request filled by being persistent.

The lesson is to persist in prayer but I don't think Jesus meant to imply that God is unjust.

So He probably didn't mean we should take mutually loving relationships for granted or dismiss them. But I still say the text can be read that way.
 
jimkenney12 said:
I think he was saying you do not get right with God by all the things he listed. Being nice to those with whom you have good mutual relationships does not mark you as a follower since everyone else does that too. You are not doing God any favours in those ways.
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Sort of like a good Samaritan jew helping another Jewish man that despises him because they don't believe the same way, not like the two who passed by and wouldn't help?
 
I think it means they are the minimum and absolutely should not be taken for granted, but God expects more. Which I guess points the way to things like "Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be children of your Father in heaven" (Matt 5:44-45), which would be going further than just loving those who love you.

www.biblegateway.com

Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 5:43-48 - New Revised Standard Version Updated Edition

Love for Enemies - “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be children of your Father in heaven, for he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good and sends...
www.biblegateway.com www.biblegateway.com
 
Waterfall said:
Sort of like a good Samaritan jew helping another Jewish man that despises him because they don't believe the same way, not like the two who passed by and wouldn't help?
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The parable of the Good Samaritan answers the question, "Who is my neighbor?" Definitely relevant to the lessons in Luke 6 and their parallels in Matthew.
 
Mendalla said:
I think it shows his humanity. He has a bad temper, or so it seems, that sometimes overrides his own moral sense and teaching. ''
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No temper tantrum in evidence here. Part of the prophet's self-understanding is to mediate a message of divine judgment.
Mendalla said:
You'd think "God" would be better at checking his feelings and keeping this on point.
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You don't seem to grasp the biblical understanding of the limits imposed by Jesus' total humanity:
(1) Consider the pre-Pauline Philippian hymn:
"Though He was of the same essential substance as God, He did not regard equality with God as something to cling to, BUT EMPTIED HIMSELF (Phil. 2:6-7)."
So Jesus temporarily gave up His equality with God by "emptying Himself" of all His divine prerogatives: omnipotence, omniscience, etc.

(2) "We do not have a High Priest (Jesus) who is unable to empathize with our weaknesses, bu one who in every respect has been tested in the same way that we are, yet without sin."
His self-emptying means He was totally human in the sense that He took on all our human limitations. Thus, prior to being empowered hy the Holy Spirit at
His baptism, He performs no miracles. No wonder His family is disillusioned with claims of His miraculous healing powers!

(3) "In the days of His flesh Jesus offered up prayers... with loud cries and tears to the one who was able to save Him from death; and He was heard because of His reverent submission (5:7)."
During His terror at facing His grim unknown future, His prayers are heard, not because He is the Son of God, but because of His reverent submission.

(5) "Although He was a Son, He learned obedience through the things He suffered (5:8)."
So He had to learn obedience through trial and error just like the rest of us. Remember, Jesus felt the need to receive John's baptism of repentance.

(6) "Jesus increased in wisdom... and in divine favor (Luke 2:52)."
The mere fact that Jesus increased in God's favor implies a prior period when He was less in divine favor.
Sin is a condition that separates one from God. Jesus was sinless only in the sense that His essential learning curve never separated Him from God.
 
paradox3 said:
I get what He is saying about extending ourselves but these verses feel like Jesus is dismissing loving relationships. They still take effort and call for ethical behavior, do they not?
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They have their own reward already. If people behave that way to receive recognition or praise or additional rewards, they are doing it for the wrong reason and definitely not aligned with the realm of heaven. It takes effort to prepare food. Should we be praised for preparing our meals?
 
jimkenney12 said:
They have their own reward already. If people behave that way to receive recognition or praise or additional rewards, they are doing it for the wrong reason and definitely not aligned with the realm of heaven. It takes effort to prepare food. Should we be praised for preparing our meals?
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I think you are misreading me, Jim. In my relationship with my husband I don't do anything to receive praise or additional rewards. I think he would say the same.

But we support each other and there is nothing wrong with being grateful that we are in each other's lives.

Nothing wrong with appreciation for the effort put into preparing dinner either.

I agree that Jesus is calling us out of these comfort zones.

Mother Teresa said something about peace in the world beginning with peace at our dinner tables. I will see if I can find it.
 
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