The Messianic Age
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Mendalla
Happy headbanging ape!!
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This gets into the whole premillennial-amillennial-postmillennial theological controversy. That is, does Jesus return to kick off a thousand year reign, already reign in Heaven, return after the thousand years. And it really all comes down to how central you make Revelation to your faith and how you interpret the often wild imagery. In my experience, mainstream and liberal Christians tend to amillennialism (Christ reigns already in Heaven) so the pre- vs. post- millennialism debate tends to be more of a conservative/fundamentalist debate.
The problem is, what theory are you referring to, because there are many. The theories are different based on different religious groups based on Revelation 20:4-6.
Supposedly it's said that all of the teachings are incorrect due to added imagination that produces a fictional account.
Revelation is not to be taken literally but symbolically. The message hidden behind the words.
And the time frame for the message is supposed to be soon after the prophecies were written according to Revelation 1:1,3 and John? is not to seal these prophesies because the time is at hand..Revelation 22:10.
unsafe
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Scripture tells you -----verse 3 below
Revelation 20 NIV
The Thousand Years
20 And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain. 2 He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years.3 He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time.
paradox3
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It seems to me that the future Messianic Age and heaven must get conflated.
When Brother Jae posted here, he told us that heaven was a temporary state to hold people until the Second Coming of Christ. At that time a new heaven and a new earth would be established
What did Jesus mean when he told the thief on the cross beside him that he would see him in Paradise that day?
And what about all the deceased who came out of their graves after the resurrection? Only Matthew recounts this AFAIK
When Brother Jae posted here, he told us that heaven was a temporary state to hold people until the Second Coming of Christ. At that time a new heaven and a new earth would be established
What did Jesus mean when he told the thief on the cross beside him that he would see him in Paradise that day?
And what about all the deceased who came out of their graves after the resurrection? Only Matthew recounts this AFAIK
unsafe
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Who Says ---don't you think the Symbols mean something and describe what is happening in the end times -----
Just because you believe that it is not to be taken literally --does not mean that it shouldn't be ----better read Daniel and Ezekiel ----
This is why the Old Testament is a Foreshadowing of the New Testament ----a lot of the end times is Prophesied in the Old Testament ---and some symbols are brought to light in the Old Testament
Who are the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse? | GotQuestions.org
Who are the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse? What do the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse represent?
www.gotquestions.org
The first Horseman likely refers to the Antichrist. He is the false imitator of the true Christ, who is also associated with a white horse (Revelation 19:11–16). At the beginning of the tribulation, the Antichrist will be given authority (“a crown”), and he will wage war (“a bow”), conquering all who oppose him. This description agrees with Daniel’s vision of the “little horn” that rises to power and is bent on conquest: “This horn was waging war against the holy people and defeating them” (Daniel 7:21; cf. Revelation 13:7).
When the Lamb opens the second seal, the second living creature says, “Come!” (Revelation 6:3). John looks and dutifully records what he sees: “Then another horse came out, a fiery red one. Its rider was given power to take peace from the earth and to make men slay each other. To him was given a large sword” (Revelation 6:4). The second Horseman refers to terrible warfare that will break out in the end times. Those wars will include the Antichrist’s rise to power, which requires the downfall of three other kings (Daniel 7:8), and possibly the Battle of Gog and Magog (Ezekiel 38—39).
The Lamb then opens the third seal, and the third living creature invites John to “Come!” (Revelation 6:5). The third Horseman then appears: “There before me was a black horse! Its rider was holding a pair of scales in his hand. Then I heard what sounded like a voice among the four living creatures, saying, ‘A quart of wheat for a day’s wages, and three quarts of barley for a day’s wages, and do not damage the oil and the wine!’” (Revelation 6:5–6). The third Horseman of the Apocalypse portrays a great famine that will take place. Food is scarce, and prices are inflated beyond reason. The command to spare the oil and the wine seems to signify that the luxuries (oil and wine) will still be available during the famine, but the staples will not.
When the Lamb breaks open the fourth seal, the fourth living creature says, “Come!” (Revelation 6:7). John says, “I looked, and there before me was a pale horse! Its rider was named Death, and Hades was following close behind him. They were given power over a fourth of the earth to kill by sword, famine and plague, and by the wild beasts of the earth” (Revelation 6:8). The fourth Horseman of the Apocalypse is symbolic of death and devastation. The horse’s pale color (in the original language, it’s literally “pale green” or “yellowish green”) denotes sickliness and biliousness. The fourth Horseman of the Apocalypse will bring further warfare and terrible famines along with awful plagues, diseases, and attacks by wild animals. A fourth of the world’s population will die.
What is most amazing, or perhaps terrifying, is that the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse are just precursors of even worse judgments that come later in the tribulation (Revelation chapters 8—9 and 16). For all the horror brought by the Four Horsemen, there is much more to come.
Scripture will always answer Scripture -----
A 1:43 second video -----
The Importance of Symbolism in Revelation - David Jeremiah Sermons 2024
Never said symbolism wasn't important, that's why it's there, and yes it can be fact checked within the bible. I said we shouldn't read it literallyWho Says ---don't you think the Symbols mean something and describe what is happening in the end times -----
Just because you believe that it is not to be taken literally --does not mean that it shouldn't be ----better read Daniel and Ezekiel ----
This is why the Old Testament is a Foreshadowing of the New Testament ----a lot of the end times is Prophesied in the Old Testament ---and some symbols are brought to light in the Old Testament
Who are the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse? | GotQuestions.org
Who are the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse? What do the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse represent?www.gotquestions.org
The first Horseman likely refers to the Antichrist. He is the false imitator of the true Christ, who is also associated with a white horse (Revelation 19:11–16). At the beginning of the tribulation, the Antichrist will be given authority (“a crown”), and he will wage war (“a bow”), conquering all who oppose him. This description agrees with Daniel’s vision of the “little horn” that rises to power and is bent on conquest: “This horn was waging war against the holy people and defeating them” (Daniel 7:21; cf. Revelation 13:7).
When the Lamb opens the second seal, the second living creature says, “Come!” (Revelation 6:3). John looks and dutifully records what he sees: “Then another horse came out, a fiery red one. Its rider was given power to take peace from the earth and to make men slay each other. To him was given a large sword” (Revelation 6:4). The second Horseman refers to terrible warfare that will break out in the end times. Those wars will include the Antichrist’s rise to power, which requires the downfall of three other kings (Daniel 7:8), and possibly the Battle of Gog and Magog (Ezekiel 38—39).
The Lamb then opens the third seal, and the third living creature invites John to “Come!” (Revelation 6:5). The third Horseman then appears: “There before me was a black horse! Its rider was holding a pair of scales in his hand. Then I heard what sounded like a voice among the four living creatures, saying, ‘A quart of wheat for a day’s wages, and three quarts of barley for a day’s wages, and do not damage the oil and the wine!’” (Revelation 6:5–6). The third Horseman of the Apocalypse portrays a great famine that will take place. Food is scarce, and prices are inflated beyond reason. The command to spare the oil and the wine seems to signify that the luxuries (oil and wine) will still be available during the famine, but the staples will not.
When the Lamb breaks open the fourth seal, the fourth living creature says, “Come!” (Revelation 6:7). John says, “I looked, and there before me was a pale horse! Its rider was named Death, and Hades was following close behind him. They were given power over a fourth of the earth to kill by sword, famine and plague, and by the wild beasts of the earth” (Revelation 6:8). The fourth Horseman of the Apocalypse is symbolic of death and devastation. The horse’s pale color (in the original language, it’s literally “pale green” or “yellowish green”) denotes sickliness and biliousness. The fourth Horseman of the Apocalypse will bring further warfare and terrible famines along with awful plagues, diseases, and attacks by wild animals. A fourth of the world’s population will die.
What is most amazing, or perhaps terrifying, is that the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse are just precursors of even worse judgments that come later in the tribulation (Revelation chapters 8—9 and 16). For all the horror brought by the Four Horsemen, there is much more to come.
Scripture will always answer Scripture -----
A 1:43 second video -----
The Importance of Symbolism in Revelation - David Jeremiah Sermons 2024
Pavlos Maros
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No it cant be fact checked it can only be verified that it is in the bible. That is the only factual basis it has. It can never be truly fact checked, as it can never be verified as a real fact. A fact is a thing that is known or proven to be true. Which can never really happen with the bible. There are a few chosen real things in the bible like some place names and some peoples names, etc. Just like there are in all books of fiction, and no I not saying the bible is a book fiction, however, without a factual basis you must treat it like one.
Even atheists acknowledge that it feels like the world’s ending (for humans). It’s a pretty common theme these days and they’re not just saying it to satirize fundamentalist Christian beliefs. That was 10+ years ago. Now it’s more acute. It could be a long time from now (in human years) but it might not. We don’t know. Environmentally we’ve got 40-50 habitable years unless some breakthrough change happens. There’s still hope but it is worrying for plenty of people who will be here in 50 years trying to survive. That must be pretty scary for young people who will only be in their 50s and 60s to contemplate, especially. The difference is that some groups are longing for it and trying to accelerate the end of the world, while some want to save the world from demise. And some are just partying like it’s 1999.
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paradox3
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It is worth remembering that Jesus expected the world to end within a generation almost 2000 years ago.
People worried about it happening in 1000CE and this was echoed in 2000CE.
The year 6000 on the Jewish calendar is another candidate. It is presently 5784.
People worried about it happening in 1000CE and this was echoed in 2000CE.
The year 6000 on the Jewish calendar is another candidate. It is presently 5784.
Hints at a dark age or a black time ... right? It comes down to that, when illumination is phased out ... economic shaving?
Jesus didn’t know the science of climate change either.
paradox3
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True. I was just trying to say this is not the first time in history we have had these worries about the world ending.
unsafe
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this may address this first statement -----read all if you wish ---- I am just posting this part ---
all can come to your own conclusion on this
Did Jesus go to hell between His death and resurrection? | GotQuestions.org
Did Jesus go to hell between His death and resurrection? What was Jesus doing for the three days between His death and resurrection?
www.gotquestions.org
Did Jesus go to hell between His death and resurrection
In the Hebrew Scriptures, the word used to describe the realm of the dead is sheol. It simply means “the place of the dead” or “the place of departed souls/spirits.” The New Testament Greek equivalent of sheol is hades, which also refers to “the place of the dead.” The New Testament indicates that sheol/hades is a temporary place, where souls are kept as they await the final resurrection and judgment. Revelation 20:11–15 makes a clear distinction between hades and the lake of fire.The lake of fire is the permanent and final place of judgment for the lost. Hades, then, is a temporary place. Many people refer to both hades and the lake of fire as “hell,” and this causes confusion. Jesus did not go to a place of torment after His death, but He did go to hades.
Sheol/hades is a realm with two divisions—a place of blessing and a place of judgment (Matthew 11:23; 16:18; Luke 10:15; 16:23; Acts 2:27–31). The abodes of the saved and the lost are both generally called “hades” in the Bible.
The abode of the saved is also called “Abraham’s bosom” (KJV) or “Abraham’s side” (NIV) in Luke 16:22 and “paradise” in Luke 23:43.
The abodes of the saved and the lost are separated by a “great chasm” (Luke 16:26). When Jesus died, He went to the blessed side of sheol, or paradise. (Some believe, based on a particular interpretation of Ephesians 4:8–10, that Jesus took believers with Him from sheol to another place of bliss that we now call heaven. More likely, Ephesians 4 refers to the ascension of Christ.) All the unbelieving dead go to the cursed side of hades to await the final judgment. All the believing dead go to the blessed side of hades to await the resurrection. Did Jesus go to sheol/hades? Yes, according to Jesus’ own words, He went to the blessed region of sheol
I say -----So why did Jesus go to sheol----many believe to preach the Gospel of Grace to the Old Testament Saints ---they died under the Old Covenant of the law ------
you can decide for yourselves why -----
Read all yourselves ---just posting this
Where was Jesus for the three days between His death and resurrection? | GotQuestions.org
Where was Jesus for the three days between His death and resurrection? Where did Jesus go after he was crucified? What was Jesus doing for the 3 days between His death and resurrection?
www.gotquestions.org
Ephesians 4:8–10 is another passage used in the discussion regarding Jesus’ activities in the three days between His death and resurrection. Quoting Psalm 68:18, Paul says about Christ, “When he ascended on high, he took many captives” (Ephesians 4:8).
The ESV puts it that Christ “led a host of captives.” Some say this refers to an event not elsewhere described in Scripture, namely, that Jesus gathered all the redeemed who were in paradise and took them to their permanent dwelling in heaven.
That is, after securing their salvation on the cross, Jesus brought Abraham, David, Joshua, Daniel, the beggar Lazarus, the thief on the cross, and everyone else who had previously been justified by faith, and led them from Hades (the abode of the dead in general) to their new spiritual home
paradox3 said
This may answer your question -----you can decide whether it does or not ------just posting this part
What is the meaning of those who were raised to life at Jesus’ death (Matthew 27:52-53)? | GotQuestions.org
What is the meaning of those who were raised to life at Jesus’ death (Matthew 27:52-53)? Did the people who were resurrected with Jesus later die again?
www.gotquestions.org
The raising of the saints fits into the overall rhetorical devices and strategies used by Matthew in his gospel.
Examining Ezekiel 37 and the bones raised to life in connection with this story reveals that an Old Testament prophecy was fulfilled in the raising of these saints.
Additionally, the raising of the saints relates directly to the coming kingdom.
The raising of a few and not all of the saints shows that Jesus has power to resurrect, but also points forward to the second coming and judgment of Jesus Christ, which will include all those whose names are written in the Book Life by faith in the grace of God.
Knowing that Jesus has died and conquered death through His resurrection ought to hasten our desire to repent and trust Him alone for salvation so we too can one day be resurrected “in the twinkling of an eye” (1 Corinthians 15:52).
Going back to symbolism, I tend to think that when someone delivers a "coded" message, it's so the enemy or outsiders don't understand it. So perhaps Revelation is somewhat of a political statement along with a spiritual message for the events happening when it was happening.
If it was written more clearly and understood easily, we wouldn't have so many theories about what it means. Possibly it was very clear to those who needed to hear it?
If it was written more clearly and understood easily, we wouldn't have so many theories about what it means. Possibly it was very clear to those who needed to hear it?
I said it could be fact based within the Bible, so I think we're saying the same thing here.
unsafe
Well-Known Member
God is in control of the Climate ---not Science ------there is only a God Changed climate to bring about what He Wants -----His Plan is playing out as we speak ------Jesus mentioned birth pangs ----in Matthew
Strong's Concordance
ódin: a birth pang
Definition: a birth pang
Usage: the pain of childbirth, acute pain, severe agony, a snare.
HELPS Word-studies
5604 ōdín – (figuratively) the pain necessary to open up (introduce) something new, i.e. to bring in more.
[5604 (ōdín) suggests intense suffering (similar to birth pain) – hence, "to suffer greatly, great pain" (L & N, 1, 24.87) like "a birth-pang, travail-pain; figuratively, extreme suffering--equivalent to intolerable anguish, in reference to the dire calamities
I say
Do you not see this happening Now ------storms are getting more frequent ---more intense ---People loosing their Homes --and everything they owned ------by floods --fire ---winds ---earthquakes ---etc ---calamities are happening all around us now -----and rumours of war ---
How many times have you heard people on the news say ---it is happening in Biblical Proportions ----the floods from historical rains ----
You can believe it is science if you want to but God is at the Helm of the weather ------not man ----or science ----in my belief ---when God is ready He will be the destroyer of this earth not any man made climate change ------
unsafe
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The Tribulation will happen before this earth is destroyed -----and the scripture says when the last Gentile is saved the tribulation will begin -----
Read all yourself ----
What is the fullness of the Gentiles (Romans 11:25)? | GotQuestions.org
What is the fullness of the Gentiles (Romans 11:25)? What does Romans 11:26 mean by 'all Israel will be saved'?
www.gotquestions.org
What is the fullness of the Gentiles (Romans 11:25)?
In the meantime, Paul explains that there is a partial hardening of the nation—that many will refuse the Messiah—until the fullness of the Gentiles occurs.
Israel’s hardening will continue until the divinely set number of Gentiles are saved: “Some of the people of Israel have hard hearts, but this will last only until the full number of Gentiles comes to Christ” (Romans 11:25, NLT).
The fullness of the Gentiles in Romans 11:25 reminds us of God’s global focus (with the universal proclamation of the gospel of salvation) and chronology (with the times of the Gentiles not yet complete). One day, the fullness of the Gentiles will be complete, and God will deliver the nation of Israel. Anyone who might have doubts about God’s faithfulness in keeping His promises can consider these passages as important reminders that God has a detailed plan that He is fulfilling patiently and carefully.