Is the Christian story a myth?
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Mendalla
Happy headbanging ape!!
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Jesus is not a human tool. Jesus is, if we are coming from a salvific narrative, a gift from God. He is not a method of looking for answers as science is, he is THE answer. Science can be wrong and has built-in mechanisms for testing our answers. Jesus is an untestable answer demanding faith, not testing. I see almost no similarities.
Redbaron
Pirate fan since the dark ages
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I have seen this term, in reference to writing of the lives of the Saints in the Christian era. 'H A G I O' is from Greek, means 'holy'
BetteTheRed
Resident Heretic
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That's exactly what it means. It has a rich history in the Roman Catholic and Orthodox traditions.
tHE GOSPEL OF MARK AS THE MEMOIRS OF HIS DAD PETER: MY THEORY
Peter had a mother-in-law and was therefore already married during Jesus' public ministry (Mark 1:30-31). The early tradition that Peter had biological children is therefore probably true (Clement Stromata 3:52). Peter (Cephas) took his wife with him on his missionary tours (1 Corinthians 9:5) and was martyred together with her in Rome (Clement, Stromata 7:11). So it seems probable that Peter took his children with him on his missionary travels. Indeed, Peter's “son” (Greek: “huios”) Mark traveled with him on his tours (1 Peter 5:13). Why has this largely gone unnoticed? Because Paul uses “teknon” ("child") in a figurative sense to refer to his younger missionary companions. But Paul makes it clear that he is speaking figuratively of his “loyal child in the faith” (1 Timothy 1:2; Titus 1:4). Unlike Peter, Paul never uses the Greek for natural "son" (huios") to refer to his missionary companions. So there is no reason to believe that Peter uses the term for natural “son” in a figurative sense.
Papias (c. 60-130 AD) prefers “the living voice” of eyewitnesses to Jesus to written traditions and hears what 2 of Jesus' disciples, John and Aristion, are currently saying. Neither disciple is one of the Twelve, but both may well be included in the 70 other disciples (Luke 10:1). He refers to these 2 disciples as “the Elders” and quotes one of them on the origin of Mark's Gospel:
“The Elder [John or Aristion] said this: Mark, having become Peter's interpreter, wrote down accurately what he recalled. However, it was not in the exact order that he related the sayings or deeds of Christ...He accompanied Peter, who accommodated his instructions to the necessities of his hearers, but with no intention of giving a regular narrative of the Lord's sayings. Therefore, Mark made no mistake in writing some things as he recalled them (Eusebius HE 3:39).”
Note 2 implications of what Papias reports: (1) Mark is providing Peter's eyewitness testimony to Jesus' words and deeds. (2) Eyewitnesses were still alive to correct the sequence of Mark's Gospel, which is based on Peter's catechetical notes rather than on a sequential biography. So Mark's Gospel is basically Mark's record of his Dad's teaching about Jesus' words and deeds! Thus, Justin Martyr (2nd century Rome) can rightly refer to Mark as Peter's "Memoirs."
After Peter is saved from execution by a miraculous deliverance from prison, his next decision supports the claim that Mark (also known as "John called Mark") is his biological son. We are told that Peter goes to Mary's house to let them know of his deliverance and that he must immediately leave Jerusalem (Acts 12:12, 17). Mary just happens to be Mark's Mom, the young man Peter calls his "son." So why does Peter go to Mary's house rather than James's house? After all, Jesus' brother James was the leader of the Jerusalem church. Because Mary is Peter's wife and Mark is his son, Peter's top priority is to let his family know he's OK and must immediately leave town. Obviously, he promised to let them know where he was, so that they could eventually be reunited. Thus, Paul's note that Peter took his wife with him on his missionary travels makes sense (1 Corinthians 9:5). After an unsuccessful missionary stint with Paul and Barnabas, Mark joins his "cousin" (so Colossians 4:10) Barnabas on a mission to Cyprus (Acts 15:39). From there Mark, keeping his missionary efforts in the family, joins his Dad Peter on the mission field (1 Peter 5:13).
So why didn't Luke explicitly identify Mary as Peter's wife? In a patriarchal culture it is unusual that the house in question is identified as Mary's house rather than her husband's. The answer is Luke's lack of interest in the family relationships of apostolic leadership. Thus, in Luke's repeated references to James, he never identifies James as Jesus' brother and never mentions that Barnabas and Mark are cousins.
Peter had a mother-in-law and was therefore already married during Jesus' public ministry (Mark 1:30-31). The early tradition that Peter had biological children is therefore probably true (Clement Stromata 3:52). Peter (Cephas) took his wife with him on his missionary tours (1 Corinthians 9:5) and was martyred together with her in Rome (Clement, Stromata 7:11). So it seems probable that Peter took his children with him on his missionary travels. Indeed, Peter's “son” (Greek: “huios”) Mark traveled with him on his tours (1 Peter 5:13). Why has this largely gone unnoticed? Because Paul uses “teknon” ("child") in a figurative sense to refer to his younger missionary companions. But Paul makes it clear that he is speaking figuratively of his “loyal child in the faith” (1 Timothy 1:2; Titus 1:4). Unlike Peter, Paul never uses the Greek for natural "son" (huios") to refer to his missionary companions. So there is no reason to believe that Peter uses the term for natural “son” in a figurative sense.
Papias (c. 60-130 AD) prefers “the living voice” of eyewitnesses to Jesus to written traditions and hears what 2 of Jesus' disciples, John and Aristion, are currently saying. Neither disciple is one of the Twelve, but both may well be included in the 70 other disciples (Luke 10:1). He refers to these 2 disciples as “the Elders” and quotes one of them on the origin of Mark's Gospel:
“The Elder [John or Aristion] said this: Mark, having become Peter's interpreter, wrote down accurately what he recalled. However, it was not in the exact order that he related the sayings or deeds of Christ...He accompanied Peter, who accommodated his instructions to the necessities of his hearers, but with no intention of giving a regular narrative of the Lord's sayings. Therefore, Mark made no mistake in writing some things as he recalled them (Eusebius HE 3:39).”
Note 2 implications of what Papias reports: (1) Mark is providing Peter's eyewitness testimony to Jesus' words and deeds. (2) Eyewitnesses were still alive to correct the sequence of Mark's Gospel, which is based on Peter's catechetical notes rather than on a sequential biography. So Mark's Gospel is basically Mark's record of his Dad's teaching about Jesus' words and deeds! Thus, Justin Martyr (2nd century Rome) can rightly refer to Mark as Peter's "Memoirs."
After Peter is saved from execution by a miraculous deliverance from prison, his next decision supports the claim that Mark (also known as "John called Mark") is his biological son. We are told that Peter goes to Mary's house to let them know of his deliverance and that he must immediately leave Jerusalem (Acts 12:12, 17). Mary just happens to be Mark's Mom, the young man Peter calls his "son." So why does Peter go to Mary's house rather than James's house? After all, Jesus' brother James was the leader of the Jerusalem church. Because Mary is Peter's wife and Mark is his son, Peter's top priority is to let his family know he's OK and must immediately leave town. Obviously, he promised to let them know where he was, so that they could eventually be reunited. Thus, Paul's note that Peter took his wife with him on his missionary travels makes sense (1 Corinthians 9:5). After an unsuccessful missionary stint with Paul and Barnabas, Mark joins his "cousin" (so Colossians 4:10) Barnabas on a mission to Cyprus (Acts 15:39). From there Mark, keeping his missionary efforts in the family, joins his Dad Peter on the mission field (1 Peter 5:13).
So why didn't Luke explicitly identify Mary as Peter's wife? In a patriarchal culture it is unusual that the house in question is identified as Mary's house rather than her husband's. The answer is Luke's lack of interest in the family relationships of apostolic leadership. Thus, in Luke's repeated references to James, he never identifies James as Jesus' brother and never mentions that Barnabas and Mark are cousins.
PilgrimsProgress
Well-Known Member
You can be a Christian, and not believe that the Bible is literal truth. All stories (including the Bible) are people's attempts to make sense of the world and relationships etc.
Some, but not all, Christians believe that the Bible is the inerrant word of God. Some Christians, like me, see faith and spirituality as something to experience, rather than something to believe. (And, like love, it also involves commitment.)
In practical terms, my faith is about trying to follow in the ways of Jesus, that's my relationship with the Bible. (Fortunately, I don't get crucified).
PilgrimsProgress
Well-Known Member
Yes, I've sometimes wondered if my faith is really Jewish - except I really like Jesus's message about what he termed "The Kingdom of God". Although it seems impossible to achieve - I've always thought it was worth aiming for. A Kingdom based on love - no more wars, just a good ole love-in!
paradox3
Peanuts Fan
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Maybe you are a first century Jew
What happened to nemesis? Obtuse fallacy! In modernity is a humble Christian an oxymoron or beef about what they avoided? It went into Canon and Bull ... while the Λ, λ waned in syncope ... the ethers grasped while mythers gasped about alchemy and illicit relations ... the ins and outs across the vast void ... insubstantially out there ... in essence? So many words, so few understood ... something to take up ... as etude! What's in ude ... that's rye hu mour! Unseen ...
Ghost writer's in Skye ... wisps ... the foggy 'st notions ... is the unknowing sentient about what they know naught? More that cannot be spoken of straight out ... thus the Swerve ... and all vectors come about ... that's the sphere and presently departed in the dense space! Hard to observe ... opinion-ist denied! Mortals dispose of much as we approach the disposable age we goes ... funicle? Fun ihc you lee, or la? Decisions ...
Mortal folk will conflict over templar matters ... and lose tract of IT ... so AI move in ... because we denied the natural intellect (it wa sloe agenda).
Ghost writer's in Skye ... wisps ... the foggy 'st notions ... is the unknowing sentient about what they know naught? More that cannot be spoken of straight out ... thus the Swerve ... and all vectors come about ... that's the sphere and presently departed in the dense space! Hard to observe ... opinion-ist denied! Mortals dispose of much as we approach the disposable age we goes ... funicle? Fun ihc you lee, or la? Decisions ...
Mortal folk will conflict over templar matters ... and lose tract of IT ... so AI move in ... because we denied the natural intellect (it wa sloe agenda).
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jimkenney12
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Maybe first century Jew stripped of the identity customs like food laws, circumcision, exclusion of non Jews
Are myths then dressed up lies to counter legitimate lies conjured to profit the powers of the Judean Punch as a romantic; well-juiced?
Did the essence of Jesus avoid hard loss/laws ... thus defining essence as that which is out there? Will Moni destroy the world in its play into entitled hands? Is it the Moni that is the problem or the power of avarice regarding the control thereof ... thus the nemesis departs ... it is just how the wholly thing goes down as Holy! Aga p eh ... Eros of Charon ... a moen ae! The question is what' ae Moe Neh? One tradition states that Moe is big eyed girl! Thus that drink to me icon ... and how some walk the line a bit inebriated by the incident ... Night watch or just setting a watchman? Get into the legends ... there's ohm thing there that the powers try to detract from the populace ... thus we outgrow our welcome ... sophisticated processes? Wotan or whoa dune ... cease?
Things up in the lemon tree? Cova 'd!
PilgrimsProgress
Well-Known Member
In my particular case, I think we can rule out circumcision........
paradox3
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Still something to think about if we start to romanticize first century Judaism, no?
PilgrimsProgress
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Yes, maybe 1st century Christian? No, that doesn't really work either.....
I think I'll settle for "Follower of the Way of Jesus in Hoping and Working towards the Kingdom of God to reign here on Earth."
(Er, it does sound a bit long-winded to put on a church building!)