What do you accept on faith alone?

[Mendalla]

The nature of faith is hard to describe but I think it goes deeper than adopting a concept.

Faith is more like placing a deep trust in something, not just believing it. I can believe in God without having faith in God. E.g. Deism, where God is non-interventionist, there is not much point in having faith in God to change or transform your life. God just created the universe and let things go. Your faith would be that God got it all right in the first place.

 

[Luce NDs]

The Bishop of Cusa stated that God was all over out there and indeterminate as really on the move ... a point that was hard to locate according to Uncertainty Theory!

Very Sophisticated to the sympathies ... the empathies were something else ... beyond what was thought to be ... when resting antipathy and couldn't give Adam ... so the source of that one is unknown ... potentially orphan!

 

[Pavlos Maros]

On a religious based forum in the religious section. I would assume that when someone says faith they mean religious faith.
What I'm noticing here is people are equating religious faith with trust, trust can be tested, demonstrated. However religious faith cannot.

There is no need for religious faith if one has evidence, religious faith is not meritorious in any way.
Religious faith is the excuse people give when they don't have a good reason, whereas you have a good reason for trust.
If you trust someone/something you can give that good reason. When you make an appeal to religious faith your don't have good reason.

Religious faith comes from our believes which makes it subjective.
Trust however does not come from our believes.
Trust is built through our relationship with someone/something, which we build over time. Which makes it an objective experience.
Now some of you are going to claim that you built you relationship with jesus/god over time, but you cant demonstrate that. It is a one sided relationship.
But with trust, and your relationship with lets say your wife/husband/children, etc, can be. Because it isn't one sided.

So please lets not equivocate, and answer the question posed in the OP honestly. Thank you.

 

[Luce NDs]

On a religious based forum in the religious section. I would assume that when someone says faith they mean religious faith.
What I'm noticing here is people are equating religious faith with trust, trust can be tested, demonstrated. However religious faith cannot.

There is no need for religious faith if one has evidence, religious faith is not meritorious in any way.
Religious faith is the excuse people give when they don't have a good reason, whereas you have a good reason for trust.
If you trust someone/something you can give that good reason. When you make an appeal to religious faith your don't have good reason.

Religious faith comes from our believes which makes it subjective.
Trust however does not come from our believes.
Trust is built through our relationship with someone/something, which we build over time. Which makes it an objective experience.
Now some of you are going to claim that you built you relationship with jesus/god over time, but you cant demonstrate that. It is a one sided relationship.
But with trust, and your relationship with lets say your wife/husband/children, etc, can be. Because it isn't one sided.

So please lets not equivocate, and answer the question posed in the OP honestly. Thank you.

I trust we'll all be out of here in due time once the foundational lies wear off and we find there are few in polity that we can trust ... and they too took off in a feint! Is that polar or just kohl 'dnuts? Hard space for listening ...

 

[Mendalla]

On a religious based forum in the religious section. I would assume that when someone says faith they mean religious faith.
What I'm noticing here is people are equating religious faith with trust, trust can be tested, demonstrated. However religious faith cannot.

There is no need for religious faith if one has evidence, religious faith is not meritorious in any way.
Religious faith is the excuse people give when they don't have a good reason, whereas you have a good reason for trust.
If you trust someone/something you can give that good reason. When you make an appeal to religious faith your don't have good reason.

Religious faith comes from our believes which makes it subjective.
Trust however does not come from our believes.
Trust is built through our relationship with someone/something, which we build over time. Which makes it an objective experience.
Now some of you are going to claim that you built you relationship with jesus/god over time, but you cant demonstrate that. It is a one sided relationship.
But with trust, and your relationship with lets say your wife/husband/children, etc, can be. Because it isn't one sided.

So please lets not equivocate, and answer the question posed in the OP honestly. Thank you.

Or maybe we let people answer the question as they see it and stop playing forum police. If the OP thinks the posts are on topic and discussing what she wanted to discuss, then you're not in a position to question that.

 

[Pavlos Maros]

If the OP thinks the posts are on topic and discussing what she wanted to discuss, then you're not in a position to question that.

Agreed.

 

[Mystic]

There is no need for religious faith if one has evidence, religious faith is not meritorious in any way.
Religious faith is the excuse people give when they don't have a good reason, whereas you have a good reason for trust.
If you trust someone/something you can give that good reason. When you make an appeal to religious faith your don't have good reason.

My friend Dave had a blood clot that ran from his groin area to near his ankle. Doctors told him not to go out because a chunk of the clot might break off and go to his heart or his brain. But cabin fever prompted Dave to defy doctors' orders and take his wife to Maverick's, a restaurant I can see from my place.
There Mark approached his table and, prompted by the Holy Spirit, asked Dave if he had a medical condition that required prayer. Dave felt offended by this invasion of his privacy but had to be honest and answered, "Yes." Mark then asked, "Would you like prayer for your healing?" Dave didn't want to act as if he didn't want prayer. So he said Yes, hoping Mark would pray quietly. But Mark prayed loudly for Dave's healing. Dave felt very self-conscious because other customers were staring at him. Dave's ambivolence melted in to gratitude when he recognized he was instantly healed. His doctor later confirmed the miracle through medical tests. I didn't know Mark (a Pentecostal seer) then, but I had lunch with him later and got to know him quite well.

This miracle is "evidence" of the healing power of faith, but not knowledge or proof because there are other (implausible) interpretations other than divine intervention. The correlation of prayer and instant healing is sufficient grounds to give God the glory. That particular restaurant table now feels like a holy shirine to me and I deliberately sat there for lunch last week. Such examples could be multiplied.

 

[ninj]

My friend Dave had a blood clot that ran from his groin area to near his ankle. Doctors told him not to go out because a chunk of the clot might break off and go to his heart or his brain. But cabin fever prompted Dave to defy doctors' orders and take his wife to Maverick's, a restaurant I can see from my place.
There Mark approached his table and, prompted by the Holy Spirit, asked Dave if he had a medical condition that required prayer. Dave felt offended by this invasion of his privacy but had to be honest and answered, "Yes." Mark then asked, "Would you like prayer for your healing?" Dave didn't want to act as if he didn't want prayer. So he said Yes, hoping Mark would pray quietly. But Mark prayed loudly for Dave's healing. Dave felt very self-conscious because other customers were staring at him. Dave's ambivolence melted in to gratitude when he recognized he was instantly healed. His doctor later confirmed the miracle through medical tests. I didn't know Mark (a Pentecostal seer) then, but I had lunch with him later and got to know him quite well.

This miracle is "evidence" of the healing power of faith, but not knowledge or proof because there are other (implausible) interpretations other than divine intervention. The correlation of prayer and instant healing is sufficient grounds to give God the glory. That particular restaurant table now feels like a holy shirine to me and I deliberately sat there for lunch last week. Such examples could be multiplied.

I'm glad your friend survived. God must really like him.

 

[BetteTheRed]

trust can be tested, demonstrated.

Agreed. I believe that I act and speak as if I trust that the macro arc of the Universe is benevolent. However, the reason for that trust is what some people might call a mystic vision; it's certainly nothing I could ever explain.

 

[ninj]

Agreed. I believe that I act and speak as if I trust that the macro arc of the Universe is benevolent. However, the reason for that trust is what some people might call a mystic vision; it's certainly nothing I could ever explain.

Just look what happens when people try

 

[BetteTheRed]

God must really like him.

Yes, which is why this 'testimony' might better belong on the Interventionist God thread.

See, I cannot believe in the morality of the God that saves "Dave" over my sweet friend Beth down the street. And if I had "faith" in that sort of God, I do not know how I would feel about myself but I'd have to guess not positive.

 

[Luce NDs]

Yes, which is why this 'testimony' might better belong on the Interventionist God thread.

See, I cannot believe in the morality of the God that saves "Dave" over my sweet friend Beth down the street. And if I had "faith" in that sort of God, I do not know how I would feel about myself but I'd have to guess not positive.

Might this God be chosen by a biased Christian of modern avarice? Thus ancient mental experiences fade into a dark domain ... sometimes known as an abstract, or yet drawn upon portion of the unconscious wyrd thingy! This yields a "I don't know feedback wave!"

Not a favourite of those absolutely sure of the alternate emotion without thought!

 

[Mystic]

See, I cannot believe in the morality of the God that saves "Dave" over my sweet friend Beth down the street. And if I had "faith" in that sort of God, I do not know how I would feel about myself but I'd have to guess not positive.

You apparently assume that God randomly heals one person and not another, regardless of the conditions established by Jesus for such healings.
Did your "sweet friend Beth" receive the laying on of hands by a proven gifted healer like Mark?

 

[BetteTheRed]

Did your "sweet friend Beth" receive the laying on of hands by a proven gifted healer like Mark?

No. Neither did the beautiful unknown child in the Sudan who just died of hunger. Or my two beloved friends who died of ovarian cancer in their 60s, after shitty, shitty battles, and more prayers than you can shake a stick at.

The God who says "you must ask for healing by a specific type of 'Christian' healer" is so full of s**t.

 

[Luce NDs]

No. Neither did the beautiful unknown child in the Sudan who just died of hunger. Or my two beloved friends who died of ovarian cancer in their 60s, after s**tty, s**tty battles, and more prayers than you can shake a stick at.

The God who says "you must ask for healing by a specific type of 'Christian' healer" is so full of s**t.

This may prove to be rich stuff when the conscience is received as cosmological feedback ... requiring time and space to complete the quantum field ... by chance that someone had a blip in their logos function ... an icon intimating that some shafting went off track ... virtue served on a stick???

The variants are numerous ... some we will not name and thus anonymity for those shamed by myth ... and not seeing it in perspective ... 12 archetypes stood for a portion of these standoffs ... stiffs in the Magi Forest ... briars ... these can attach sheep! Wool is like that to some observers ...

As long as the tyrants don't get it ... chitz will take flight ... some filters required ... sometimes grit or sans ... still a grind ... I saw an article earlier about polished Jade and no evidence ... a fine shade of vertigo ...

 

[ninj]

No. Neither did the beautiful unknown child in the Sudan who just died of hunger. Or my two beloved friends who died of ovarian cancer in their 60s, after s**tty, s**tty battles, and more prayers than you can shake a stick at.

The God who says "you must ask for healing by a specific type of 'Christian' healer" is so full of s**t.

Preach it!

 

[Mystic]

No. Neither did the beautiful unknown child in the Sudan who just died of hunger. Or my two beloved friends who died of ovarian cancer in their 60s, after s**tty, s**tty battles, and more prayers than you can shake a stick at.

First, mere prayer in itself rarely has power, apart from the right quality of consciousness. There is cross-cultural agreement on this. Hence, the consciousness-altering shamanistic and native American healing rituals, for example.
Second, you wrongly presume a personal omnipotent God who micro-manages the universe and can do anything, regardless of conditions.
To see what's wrong with your preconception, wait for my replies to (3) in my interventionist thread. Have you read Kushner's book "Why Bad Things Happen to Good People?"

 

[BetteTheRed]

First, mere prayer in itself rarely has power, apart from the right quality of consciousness. There is cross-cultural agreement on this. Hence, the consciousness-altering shamanistic and native American healing rituals, for example.
Second, you wrongly presume a personal omnipotent God who micro-manages the universe and can do anything, regardless of conditions.
To see what's wrong with your preconception, wait for my replies to (3) in my interventionist thread. Have you read Kushner's book "Why Bad Things Happen to Good People?"

First. 'mere' prayer? Your prayer, the one that cured good old Dave, but the lack of prayer to save that Sudanese baby. that just starved. I am not minister, not shaman, but I know well all suffer and die, older first berserk, and I'm sure that bugs you.

Secondly, it is only your belief that assumes a "personal omnipotent God who micro-manages the Universe". I have no such belief, and I'm not sure where you get that from my stated observations about Godde/Holy Mystery. I am the person who says, clearly, "IF you believe in a god who will heal or not heal a child on the basis of the belief system of the child or its parent THEN your god is objectively EVIL"

And yeah, I've read and loved Kushner, may his soul rest in peace. If you are pretending to echo any of his ideas, he's f***ing twirling in his grave.

 

[Mystic]

First. 'mere' prayer? Your prayer, the one that cured good old Dave, but the lack of prayer to save that Sudanese baby. that just starved. I am not minister, not shaman,

Mere prayer as a mechanical ritual is ineffective. Mark's prayer was not "mere prayer;" Mark had a paranormal "word of knowledge" (see 1 Corinthians 12:8) that Dave had a serious physical ailment that needed prayer and that's why he approached Dave and Patty's restaurant table. Mark is a Pentecostal seer whose prayer was empowered by his gift of healing faith. In fact. his faith-fueled prayer had previously healed the restaurant owner's less serious blood clot, but I don't have the details of that healing.

Secondly, it is only your belief that assumes a "personal omnipotent God who micro-manages the Universe". I have no such belief, and I'm not sure where you get that from my stated observations about Godde/Holy Mystery.

That is your projection on the Bible and my views. In fact, the Bible teaches no such micro-managing God. Stay tuned for my answer to point (3) in my interventionist thread.

 

[Luce NDs]

If one escapes the one book theorem will other tomes enter your life as interference of belif reduced to a small unknown point because we are not sure of why that is and fear the fresh? That too is Ares ... a message on the winds ... when you loose your breath ... you observe the breathless state ... oxidation ends! Sepsis ensues ... with profound implications ...