Biblical Literacy

[paradox3]

The question of biblical education for clergy has come up on the Crystal Ball thread.

How important is biblical literacy for all of us in the United Church? By literacy I mean a basic familiarity with the structure of the Bible and the ability to interact with it or study it.

How important is it for the future of the denomination?

Finally, if you would like to say, how biblically literate are you?

 

[jimkenney12]

I believe a problem for decades in the UCC has been the low level of biblical literacy in general for lay people. Another was the failure of clergy to inform lay people about the debates about the Bible.

By Grade 9, probably earlier, I had read all of the Children's Bible an was familiar with all of the stories in the Bible. Discovering most people did not know most of these surprised me.

I am not as biblically literate as Mystic and several others in this community, but I consider myself to be quite literate.

 

[Waterfall]

I would say I am more literate now than I was at 40, but still lacking.
Being a PK you'd think it wouldnt be so, but it's TRUE.
Still require guidance.

 

[paradox3]

I have become more literate with the synoptics over the last few years but I know I have just barely touched the surface. I am exploring John now and not finding it easy.

I have read through Acts but I didn't discuss it with anyone. And it didn't stick.

After years of responsively reading the Psalms in church I have a sense of their structure. But I have really only engaged with 23, 51 and 100.

The rest of the OT contains some familiar and many unfamiliar passages.

When Bible Study is offered in church it is often not well attended. I have been to some that provided so much information I didn't retain it.

Not sure what the answer might be.

 

[Mendalla]

I am probably the most Bible literate I have been since my UCCan days, but that's largely due to trying to keep up with discussions here and doing the BPoTW stuff. I think I've been through the Gospels and a few OT books the most. I did read a few of Paul's letters when I was doing the Understanding the New Testament course on The Great Courses but I kind of fell by the wayside (other than watching the ones on John due to discussions here) of late. There's a lot to read and consider in The Bible even if you're just doing it out of historical and cultural interest.

How important is biblical literacy for all of us in the United Church?

How important is it for the future of the denomination?

The Bible is the foundational text for all of Christianity. If you want to understand what it means to be a follower of Christ, find reasons for what you believe or don't believe, and so on, that's your starting point. Everything else from the writings of Church Fathers to creeds and confessions to theology and Christology texts to Luther's 95 theses and Papal encyclicals are attempts to make sense of what is presented in The Bible.

So I would argue that Biblical literacy is extremely important for all of Christianity, present and future, and certainly for the UCCan.

 

[jimkenney12]

Regarding Acts, I differ from both Mystic and unsafe. What Paul writes about the Council in Jerusalem differs from the story told inp Acts.To me, Acts is a collection of stories circulating in the community and put together by the author of Luke.

Acts portrays Peter as the one responsible for the community letting Genytiles join without being circumcised. Paul describes himself as fighting with the council to achieve this. As much as I like the story of Pentecost and the story of the conversion of Pau, I do not know how they actually happened. That does not matter. The stories serve as points of reference for our lives as communities of faith.

 

[unsafe]

my view ----

So do we really understand that in order to have True Spiritual Biblical Literacy that with our Human Intellect we can only have a human Intellectual Biblical Literacy of what the Scripture is saying -----and is that enough to understand what the true meaning of the Scripture is really saying ?-----

Jesus taught in parables for a reason ------so He could separate the Sheep who adheared to God's call to soften their hearts and open their ears to heard the Mystery behind the Logos Words ---which is the Rhema Word ----from the Goats who didn't accept God's call to have their hearts soften and their ears open to hear the Mystery behind the Logos Word --they found the words foolish and confusing ---as they used their Human intellect only ------

Nicodemus is an example of not understanding Jesus Logos Words about being Born again ---His human intellect could not Fathom the Spiritual Message --or meaning behind the the Logos ----His Wisdom and Understanding were intellectually Limited -------

Nicodemus is also a good example of a Minister trying to teach God's word to others without the proper heart and mindset to convey the True Spiritual Meaning to his Church -----

Jesus even says to Nicodemus --John 3

10 “You are Israel’s teacher,” said Jesus, “and do you not understand these things?

11 Very truly I tell you, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony.

12 I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things?

Nicodemus's mind was one of reason which is of this world --he says -----how can someone be reborn a second time in the womb -------which is a great worldly intellectual question -----

But
Nicodemus would have read many times in the Old Testament about the Holy Spirit and the role of the Holy Spirit so he should have had the right mindset to understand what Jesus was saying ----but because he refused to have his heart softened to the scripture and his ears open to receive the Spiritual meaning ----he was not able to understand what Jesus was meaning
Jesus told the disciples to wait for the Holy Spirit to come before they went out into the world preach ---there is a reason for that -----

And it is still the same today ------Ministers or any of us on our own intellectual understanding can not understand the Spiritual message behind the Logos Word ----
I say
Biblical Literacy is so very important in fully understanding what the Scripture is trying to Spiritually convey to us -----what we can take away from the scripture with our worldly intellect is limited ------

It is so sad that just anyone can become a Minister without having the right Spiritual guide to guide them into all the Spiritual truth of the Scripture ----so they can preach the Holy Truth to their flock and lead them to their right end ------

and Ministers are warned in scripture that their Judgment will be strict as they are the ones who are out suppose to be preaching the truth of the Word to their flock -----

James 1

 

[Mendalla]

o do we really understand that in order to have True Spiritual Biblical Literacy that with our Human Intellect we can only have a human Intellectual Biblical Literacy of what the Scripture is saying -----and is that enough to understand what the true meaning of the Scripture is really saying ?

It is part of it, yes. Knowing what is there and its original historical and literary context matters. That is part of Biblical Literacy. If you don't know what it says, who wrote it, what circumstances it was written in, you cannot really understand it. Being able to then digest that and make sense of it in the context of one's own reality, spiritual life, and relationship to God is another whole part of it.

 

[Luce NDs]

Then the great question: "how do mortals differentiate between real and teachers of virtue?"

May depend on the receptors ... thus raise your cups ...

 

[unsafe]

If you don't know what it says, who wrote it, what circumstances it was written in, you cannot really understand it. Being able to then digest that and make sense of it in the context of one's own reality, spiritual life, and relationship to God is another whole part of it.

I totally agree with this you say here ----

here is a fore instance ----in Revelation 3 --Jesus uses this word Lukewarm --and when you research why he uses this word ---then it sheds more light on His reasoning and gives the person more understanding of the significance of him using this word in the scripture -----

To the Church in Laodicea​

14 “To the angel of the church in Laodicea write:


These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the ruler of God’s creation. 15 I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! 16 So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth.

In Laodicea all they had was lukewarn water as there was a neighboring placed called Hierapolis where there was a hot spring and that is where their water came from so by the time it got to Laodicea it was lukewarm ----so these people would have been very familiar with this term ----so Jesus calls them a Lukewarm church and they understood what He was saying to them ------

So some enlightenment comes from knowing the History of the times ------

But here is the thing today most people are not interested in digging deep into the research of Biblical times to give themselves that kind of enlightenment -----we just want to read the scripture and take what our intellect will allow and be done with it -----

I have a passion for researching and digging into the scripture to better understand what the real meaning is -----and why Jesus uses certain descriptive words ----as I know there is more meaning there to grasp -----

There is much work to bring Biblical Literacy to the forefront ---in my view

​

 

[Carolla]

By literacy I mean a basic familiarity with the structure of the Bible and the ability to interact with it or study it.

By this definition I would say that yes, I am basically, functionally literate. Do I know stuff by heart - absolutely not. Have I read and digested the whole thing - no and probably never will. I do know the gist of the 'main stories' which are most commonly referenced. Do I quote stuff - pretty much never, I haven't found a reason to do so. Can I look stuff up when I'm moved to do so - yes, and I have a good 'study bible' that I usually use for that - appreciating the footnotes of explanation and text at the beginning of each chapter giving context. I also find it interesting to read a passage in Bible Gateway as presented in a variety of versions of the Bible - that can be illuminating.

I don't think 'studying' the Bible has been a highly touted activity in the United Churches I have known. There might be an annual 'bible study group' given by a retired minister or something of that sort, but otherwise not a big focus. Some of the bible discussions here have been interesting to me when real discussion & exploration has emerged.

Christianity began as oral & lived tradition I think.

 

[jimkenney12]

There was a long period of time when many or most people attended church Gord social acceptance, not spiritual development. They might have attended two services on a Sunday, but mostly for social reasons. There was also the music and sometimes enteraining preaching.

 

[Mystic]

Regarding Acts, I differ from both Mystic and unsafe. What Paul writes about the Council in Jerusalem differs from the story told inp Acts.To me, Acts is a collection of stories circulating in the community and put together by the author of Luke.

Acts portrays Peter as the one responsible for the community letting Genytiles join without being circumcised. Paul describes himself as fighting with the council to achieve this.

Nowhere does Acts say that James and the other apostles initially opposed the legitimacy of uncircumcised Gentile converts! Acts identifies the opposition group as "some believers who belonged to the sect of the Pharisees (15:5)." "Some individuals" (from this group) came down from Judea (to Antioch)" to insist that Gentile converts be circumcised (15:1). Paul refers to these visiting Judaizers as "false believers secretly brought in, who slipped in to spy on our freedom... that they might enslave us (Galatians 2:4)." "James, Cephas (Peter), and John" had already approved Paul's Gospel exemption from Gentile circumcision in in a private meeting with Paul prior to the Jerusalem conference (Galatians 2:9-10). Peter's testimony was only needed to try to convince the holdouts. Their subsequent literature (e. g. Ascents of James, Clemetine Homilies and Recognitions) and early patristic descriptions of their beliefs demonstrate that these holdouts were not convinced.

jimkenney12: "As much as I like the story of Pentecost and the story of the conversion of Paul, I do not know how they actually happened."

You are apparently ignorant of Paul's own report of his vision of Jesus and accompanying revelatory call to be an apostle (1 Corinthians 9:1; Galatians 1:13-16; cp. Acts 9:1-6).

I shudder to think of the spiritual harm you do to you biblically illiterate impressionable UCCan congregations by sharing your poorly reseached sketpicism.

 

[unsafe]

I shudder to think of the spiritual harm you do to you biblically illiterate impressionable UCCan congregations

I so agree with this unfortunately it is most common in the Mainstream Churches not just in UCCan --it is in every denomination ----that people are being fed bits and pieces of scripture not the true Spiritual message ----Most Ministers teach with their own limited human intellect of what the scripture is saying without any regard to their Spiritual end ----so sad ---

 

[Redbaron]

I so agree with this unfortunately it is most common in the Mainstream Churches not just in UCCan --it is in every denomination ----that people are being fed bits and pieces of scripture not the true Spiritual message ----Most Ministers teach with their own limited human intellect of what the scripture is saying without any regard to their Spiritual end ----so sad ---

So how often do you attend a 'mainstream' denomination's church services to see what the preaching is like? What is your source for this "imformation?"

 

[Luce NDs]

Somehow if you can quote something from a standard mythology ... someone will throw the book at you ... just to prove how cantankerous Christians are about avoiding alien knowledge that they as yet are not familiar with ...

Then there is the humble, ones previously put down by none other than such laws for the sake of loss! Thus it goes ... as if we still didn't know much! Especially on co opting vs conflicting for the entertainment ... Circus Brutalism? Raises flames in some spaces ...

What is illiteracy concerning mythology ... where things appear not as defined by the word incarnate ... Nathan took off in his chariot ... across great abyss ... all about nothing? May refer to a mental washout, or other cleansing in pious moves to deny psyche and bad thoughts! Sometimes known as catharsis ... (there may be a grand story there about how and what was loosened).

The vast result? We know little ... about that is out there ...

 

[paradox3]

So how often do you attend a 'mainstream' denomination's church services to see what the preaching is like? What is your source for this "imformation?"

This raises a question for me. How well do any of us know what goes on within other denominations?

We have our impressions. But if I am honest I must say many of my impressions have been formed by the secular press.

In my lifetime I have been inside evangelical churches exactly three times. Catholic churches maybe half a dozen times including weddings and funerals.

I have visited a Presbyterian church, an interdenominal chapel and Unitarian fellowships a few times each. An Anglican Church once.

How well do United Church people even understand their own denomination, generally speaking?

 

[unsafe]

Some of the True Spiritual mega Churches are thriving as apposed to dying -----that is the Minister is a Holy Spirit indwelled Pastor who teaches straight from the Scriptures and gives the Spiritual meaning of what the Scripture is saying and they also teach how a True Christian can survive in this Fallen world and people are eating the right food ---they are being stimulated and taking away something to work on -

This is a fore instance ---David Jeremiah who is a Holy Spirit endwelled pastor ---today taught on

Romans 12:1-2 ----he broke it down and explained it out ----he gave the Greek meaning for some of the words used in the scripture to give his flock the enlightenment needed to the understanding of the words used in the scripture and then explained how to apply it to one's life in the hear and now ----

People in the pews are there to get the truth preached and to have something to chew on and work on when they leave the Church -----and people like Jeremiah ---John MacArthur --Charles Stanley are feeding Christians rightly and explaining out the scripture so people can grasp the Spiritual meaning and their Churches are thriving ------

 

[Redbaron]

Some of the True Spiritual mega Churches are thriving as apposed to dying -----that is the Minister is a Holy Spirit indwelled Pastor who teaches straight from the Scriptures and gives the Spiritual meaning of what the Scripture is saying and they also teach how a True Christian can survive in this Fallen world and people are eating the right food ---they are being stimulated and taking away something to work on -

This is a fore instance ---David Jeremiah who is a Holy Spirit endwelled pastor ---today taught on

Romans 12:1-2 ----he broke it down and explained it out ----he gave the Greek meaning for some of the words used in the scripture to give his flock the enlightenment needed to the understanding of the words used in the scripture and then explained how to apply it to one's life in the hear and now ----

People in the pews are there to get the truth preached and to have something to chew on and work on when they leave the Church -----and people like Jeremiah ---John MacArthur --Charles Stanley are feeding Christians rightly and explaining out the scripture so people can grasp the Spiritual meaning and their Churches are thriving ------

You didn't address the issue at all.

 

[Redbaron]

Anyway, back to the thread... Being literate about the Scriptures would involve recognizing the different canons of the Bible, and why there are, in fact, different canons-- to wit, the Protestant canon, the Roman catholic canon, and the Eastern Orthodox canon,. Understanding the historical and theological reasons behind these differences would help in reading the Bible intelligently.