Chapter 19: Sort of Christians

Chapter 19: Sort of Christians

There are many different opinions about which religious groups are Christian and which are not and who can identify as being Christian. For example, many Conservative Christians would say that I am not a Christian since I do not accept the legitimacy of the Apostle's Creed among other things. I self-identify as a Follower of Jesus or a Follower of the Way.

There are two large groups that self-identify as Christian that are seen by many Christians as not Christian. These are the Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses. There are many others who face judgement like this.

The Roman Catholic church at one time saw all other churches as not legitimately Christian. There are many Protestants who do not see the Roman Catholic Church as legitimately Christian.

Today, many progressive and liberal Christians resist recognizing some evangelical Conservative Christians as Christians because of the ways they diverge from the life and teachings of Jesus.

To me, Christian is a term invented by the Romans to identify the followers of Jesus and has come to mean almost nothing. It is also not our place to judge the legitimacy of others. We can evaluate them, but without a claim to judge them in the name of God. If we criticize others in terms of faith and action on religious grounds, we need to do this with specific reference to the Bible or creeds and why we make that criticism.

 

[Luce NDs]

And of course, there were no witnesses as in the Jewish faith that stresses this.

Such things remain as the unseen at this stage of passing through a passionate domain ... all thought being displaced ...

 

[BetteTheRed]

But it has already been implied in our discussion that a person could call themselves Christians without accepting the creeds including the trinity and even the divinity of Jesus.

Both of which describe me. That's what I love about the UCC. They tend to adopt UU types.

 

[Luce NDs]

Both of which describe me. That's what I love about the UCC. They tend to adopt UU types.

Is that a unified grip????

 

[paradox3]

Both of which describe me. That's what I love about the UCC. They tend to adopt UU types.

Which is really great. I just think we need to keep in mind that being inclusive.can mean accepting more traditional views than our own in UCC congregations.

This only goes so far though. My congregation is an Affirming one and as such, homophobic.views are not welcomed.

 

[Luce NDs]

Which is really great. I just think we need to keep in mind that being inclusive.can mean accepting more traditional views than our own in UCC congregations.

This only goes so far though. My congregation is an Affirming one and as such, homophobic.views are not welcomed.

Realize this may only be superficial ... the way things go!

 

[BetteTheRed]

We totally accept more traditional views. The lady who leads our prayer shawl ministry includes a prayer that starts "Our Father". There can be a bit of balance; in a private transmission of solace, there can be no bias.

 

[paradox3]

So I have been part.of four United Church congregations as an adult. I found myself to be a little left leaning in the first one. This was not uncomfortable.

I think it is harder to be more right leaning than the average type bear. Found myself there in congregation #2.

Congregation #3 found me bang on in the middle which was a great place to be.

And now I am finding my way in the fourth congregation. The process has been a tad complicated by a certain pandemic.

Lots of nuance to this stuff!!!

 

[paradox3]

Traditional views. Progressive views. Conservative views. Liberal views. Left leaning. Right leaning.

Who is entitled to identify as a Christian and who is not? These are all familiar topics of conversation around here.

For some reason, I am reminded of the squabbles that took place among the original twelve disciples of Jesus. I might have another read of some of those stories and get my thoughts together for a separate thread.

 

[Luce NDs]

Was Jaasus and his 12 just a mental construct as a decent fabric ... with wrinkles?

In some traditions they call it a carpet in flight and others a fey tapestry ... and yet people seem to prefer physical conflict ... for some unseen rationality ... an awesome nuance ... NU ante Cis a fresh initiate to come across ... rare and thin as Celtic spirit ... or essence thereof ...

 

[Luce NDs]

Did the light of intellect have to go subtle ... to appease those that didn;t wish to be sentient about much of anything little more than the eternal which is vast and mysterious ... a sign or icon!

Seme (attack) uke (stringed device) may allow for an approach of the weavings to see what it amounts to ... Seme'L'uke? Some hate music and dance it appears ... while there are alternate directives! Thus sad songs with variations ... some despise the ups and downs ...

 

[Mendalla]

Traditional views. Progressive views. Conservative views. Liberal views. Left leaning. Right leaning.

Who is entitled to identify as a Christian and who is not? These are all familiar topics of conversation around here.

For some reason, I am reminded of the squabbles that took place among the original twelve disciples of Jesus. I might have another read of some of those stories and get my thoughts together for a separate thread.

It was arguably simpler in the pre-Reformation period. The church said "this, this, and this are true" and you either believed that and were a "Christian" or didn't and got labelled a "heretic" with punishments possible if you didn't do a good job of hiding or finessing those views.

Now, whether that approach had any Biblical validity or was itself "Christian" is a whole other matter.

I, for one, think the explosion of diversity in Christian thought that became possible after the Reformation was actually a good thing. It enabled a broader diversity of thought in philosophy, science, etc. as well as in theology and matters of faith that helped build our modern world. But it certainly made it harder to figure out who is a "Christian".

In terms of the modern, secularized Wester world, if you go to a "Christian" church, you get to tick off "Christian" on the census. No arguments.

In terms of the church, are "who is in and who is out" arguments really what the church needs to survive in the 21st century? I doubt it. It likely leads to a lot of people putting themselves voluntarily on the "out" side, shrinking the church's pool of possible members.

 

[Luce NDs]

It was arguably simpler in the pre-Reformation period. The church said "this, this, and this are true" and you either believed that and were a "Christian" or didn't and got labelled a "heretic" with punishments possible if you didn't do a good job of hiding or finessing those views.

Now, whether that approach had any Biblical validity or was itself "Christian" is a whole other matter.

I, for one, think the explosion of diversity in Christian thought that became possible after the Reformation was actually a good thing. It enabled a broader diversity of thought in philosophy, science, etc. as well as in theology and matters of faith that helped build our modern world.

And in terms of the modern, secular world, if you go to a "Christian" church, you get to tick off "Christian" on the census.

In terms of the church, is "who is in and who is out" arguments really what the church needs to survive in the 21st century? I doubt it. It likely leads to a lot of people putting themselves voluntarily on the "out" side, shrinking the church's pool of possible members.

I once read somewhere that thought was bothersome and thus a method to get through life of that sort was constructed as an ide-lism! Thus Lis-a started it ... as a brighter icon between hard Dais ... and nothing erupted!

Said to be still expanding as an alien domain ... to toy with! No love lost there as all thoughts were relegated as the gravid collapsed ... it was ripe!

The way linguistic was constructed to make it easy for folk to be initiates in the naivete ...

This tends to go round given a bit of painful pounding and milling ... a story would be more helpful if there was interest and appreciation of learning .... instead of the alternate!

Forms ephraim for aliens ... electric memes! Shock value ... then a period of numbing ... relaxation theory? Best in proper cycles ...

 

[paradox3]

My struggle with this is still the question of when exactly does a Christian become a post Christian? At what point along the theological spectrum ?

All the conversations we have had about theism, panentheism, pantheism, atheism, a-theism, non-theism and post-theism have been interesting. But the question about post Christiainity still looms.

The simple answer might be that anyone wishing to identify as a Christian ought to do so freely.

 

[Luce NDs]

My struggle with this is still the question of when exactly does a Christian become a post Christian? At what point along the theological spectrum ?

All the conversations we have had about theism, panentheism, pantheism, atheism, a-theism, non-theism and post-theism have been interesting. But the question about post Christiainity still looms.

The simple answer might be that anyone wishing to identify as a Christian ought to do so freely.

Some say a revelation, apocalypse, or other sense of awareness is a turn around for those proud of pure innocence ... observing nothing!

It is problematic, or maybe enigmatic being unseen ... like Thomas Didymus in the paradigm of folk declaring they know god, eternal and everything ... and are stuck on that point ... suicidal like those desiring pure autonomous states ... al*one without a bit of the other ... because of what went ... or was disposed ... likely story explaining naivete and white states ...

 

[jimkenney12]

If someone wants to identify as post Christian, they should be able to do that.

 

[Mendalla]

My struggle with this is still the question of when exactly does a Christian become a post Christian? At what point along the theological spectrum ?

All the conversations we have had about theism, panentheism, pantheism, atheism, a-theism, non-theism and post-theism have been interesting. But the question about post Christiainity still looms.

That's my thought. Post-Christian isn't a term that has ever made much sense to me, even if I probably qualify in some minds.

If someone wants to identify as post Christian, they should be able to do that.

As long as they can define what it means if asked. Putting a label on yourself is meaningless if you can't actually explain what it says about you. And I do find that some people do that. They take a label because someone else they like uses it or because it seems "fashionable" rather than because they really know what it means or the implications of taking it on.

The labels I use or have used for myself (e.g. Epicurean, agnostic, pantheist) are all ones I have given thought to or added as I learned about them and found they fit well with me. I can explain how each of them fits me and my thinking.

 

[paradox3]

I think of myself as a person of faith. I am comfortable with calling myself a Christian, too. Or a follower of Jesus.

It depends a lot on context.

 

[paradox3]

Sometimes a person will mention going to a mosque. Depending on their reason for bringing this up, I might offer that I am a churchgoer. It's quite relevant sometimes. Just yesterday I was talking with a local store owner about changing Covid regulations and he told me what his mosque will be doing.

Many years ago a Muslim man told me he was Haji and asked me if I knew what this meant. So I told him I knew it meant he had made a pilgrimage to Mecca. I added that I knew that from playing Scrabble, not through my religious life.

This led to a conversation that nearly blew my socks off. It was the first I ever heard that Islam and Christianity had anything whatsoever in common. We are cousins, he told me.

Generally speaking, it seems that adherents of other world faiths have little interest in the internal differences of opinion found in Christianity.

 

[Luce NDs]

It seems to me the word autonomous is critical as suggesting we were individually and separately made ... given a particular perspective to carry and work with as well as share so that we all get to know everything (God) in the surrounding network to better utility for our state of mind (Utopian)?

However how many are set to be rigid; not share and not learn to move on to learn stuff about the eternal mystery?

Thus many sticking points like getting hung up in the brambles ... sheepishly!

 

[Luce NDs]

There is a tight group that say people like me go to far ... thus stressing their MO!

Yet, somethings gotta give ...