BetteTheRed
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Statistics, properly compiled by professional medical statisticians in health units, are "actual evidence".
The Church Vs. The State Civil Disobedience
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Statistics, properly compiled by professional medical statisticians in health units, are "actual evidence".
BetteTheRed
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And that would rate among the most stupid of trite sayings.
"Real" statistics, compiled by statisticians in "reputable" states, should be what we base scientific decisions on.
"Real" statistics, compiled by statisticians in "reputable" states, should be what we base scientific decisions on.
BetteTheRed
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There's actually a "science", called "statistics", that has many, many, many, many rules.
Anyone here taken a university-level stats course? *raises hand*
There's not a damn thing unscientific about it, except when it comes to the construction of the actual questions used to "mine the data set". Poor questions = poor results. But again, there's a ton of research and applied research, into finetuning the instrument to give the most accurate results.
Anyone here taken a university-level stats course? *raises hand*
There's not a damn thing unscientific about it, except when it comes to the construction of the actual questions used to "mine the data set". Poor questions = poor results. But again, there's a ton of research and applied research, into finetuning the instrument to give the most accurate results.
paradox3
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I dunno Bette I think the saying contains some truth. Thinking about how politicians have misunderstood some of the data. Comparing the results of asymptomatic testing in schools to the provincial test positive rate. Just as an example from here in Ontario.
BetteTheRed
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But you will notice that the public health officials have not mis-used the statistics. They have used them to model projections.
The "fact" that politicians will mis-use any information in the service of getting re-elected does not negate the factuality of "real" statistics.
The "fact" that politicians will mis-use any information in the service of getting re-elected does not negate the factuality of "real" statistics.
BetteTheRed
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I always like the stat from Freakonomics that pointed to an almost solid correlation between the legality of abortion and the decline in violent crime 13-16 years later. Bang on.
paradox3
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Yes I agree. But I think the saying often attributed to Twain was referring to the ways data can be twisted and misused.
Statistics and the mode of questioning what they mean ...
And then there are those under belief systems that have taken an oath to not question everything ... and everything that is God slips into oblivion or other obtuse form as dirty gods of the earth!
Beyond that an essence of wisdom ... spooky? This fear breaks folk up into interrelated sects ... OCH man we're screwed by the great powers ...
Thus it goes down in writ ... what we don't know is vast!
And then there are those under belief systems that have taken an oath to not question everything ... and everything that is God slips into oblivion or other obtuse form as dirty gods of the earth!
Beyond that an essence of wisdom ... spooky? This fear breaks folk up into interrelated sects ... OCH man we're screwed by the great powers ...
Thus it goes down in writ ... what we don't know is vast!
Ritafee
Is Being Human
This will come in handy for the case against Bonnie Henry today then ...
Dr. Henry’s Orders prohibit faith communities from gathering for any “worship or other religious service”.
Justice Centre in Court challenging BC’s prohibition on in-person worship services
Mar 1st, 2021VANCOUVER: The Justice Centre will be in court today challenging BC’s prohibition on in-person worship services, which has been in place since November 19, 2020.
The hearing takes place before Chief Justice Christopher Hinkson at the Vancouver Supreme Court of BC, located at 800 Smithe Street starting at 10 a.m. PST, and is scheduled to run through to March 3, 2021.
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I'm sure Bonnie Henry has much more data than that to present and articulate. They're going to argue in court with an experienced expert in pandemic control, with that one page?
Maybe if people really want to gather in church they can make new rules so congregants need to stay home and "fast" from all other public contact for a week following, to monitor for symptoms. Or, isolate for two weeks, and cut in person services in half. If that could be safe compromise.
Ritafee
Is Being Human
Perhaps. But does that negate the data from the Government of BC Statistics Canada referenced sources as documented above? We will have to wait and see what happens on that score. Not sure how many people they can put in jail at one time for going to church ... but there are a lot of churches that are determined to test that hypothesis in the near future whether the law agrees with them or not.
Ritafee
Is Being Human
and maybe they will.
That's not what I said in context. Don't do that.
Then they are not doing society any favours, or good deeds, they're just being pigheaded.
deleted - I actually don't want to get into it with Rita so I deleted what I said
revjohn
Well-Known Member
Too early to tell.So I have been following cases of civil disobedience around the 'church'.
Pastor Coates:
Friday the 26th has been confirmed for the conditions hearing. If the conditions are not waived, he will spend the next three months in prison.
“A trial set eight weeks down the road is too long for an innocent Pastor to be in jail. Pastor Coates is a peaceful Christian minister. The Justice of the Peace should not have required him to violate his conscience and effectively stop pastoring his church as a condition to be released.
Is this a miscarriage of justice?
Pastor James Coates to appeal bail condition preventing him from holding regular church services | Justice Centre for Constitutional Freedoms
EDMONTON: The Justice Centre today announced it is appealing the bail condition that has left Pastor James Coates of Grace Life Church in prison at the Edmonton Remand Centre since February 16, 2021. At a brief appearance before a Judge earlier today, a three-day trial was scheduled for May 3-5...www.jccf.ca
If this is the price of civil disobedience then it is the price that Pastor Coates has to decide that he is willing to pay.
His treatment seems harsh until you consider that he is a repeat offender. He is wanting this fight.
Eight weeks to trial is relatively fast and had he agreed not to contravene public health orders in the meantime he wouldn't have to wait in jail for the 8 weeks.
If he were facing a trial for speeding and kept his leadfoot ways he'd be waiting in a cell also.
If he were physically abusive and continued to abuse he'd be waiting in a cell somewhere.
Public Health measures require him not to meet, he refuses to abide by them, so he will wait in Jail until his trial is heard.
The trial will either exonerate him which means the 8 weeks for no apparent reason in jail will seem harsh, it is his choice. Or, the trial will convict him in which case the 8 weeks will be counted as time served and taken off of whatever sentence a judge hands down.