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And LTC needs to start at an early point; about the time that the house gets to be too much, even with help, there should be planned moves into an apartment, then minimally assisted living, and so on.

And as far as I'm considered, Doug Ford, and all of his Conservative predecessors appear to be bound, bent and determined to rip off the elderly in for profit "retirement homes".
 
Mendalla said:
One of our problems in North America, and probably in Oz to some degree, is that we have made a bit of a cult of individuality. We complain about Trump's narcissism, but the fact is many in our society value themselves over society to varying degrees. We saw it in Aylmer, Ontario this past weekend. Contrast the East Asian countries and cultures where people accept that sometimes society's needs and protecting the larger community has to override wants and even needs and rights of the individual.
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I agree, Mendalla.
I saw the change begin to happen when the USA began to dominate our television and social media.
As if by osmosis, American culture has changed Aussie culture. As a nation we are more into individual rights and our personal freedoms, and less into social responsibility and a concern for others.

Oz has a large Asian community, and, like you said, they concern themselves with public health matters more so than most of our citizens. Let's hope they don't become infected with our cult of the individual virus!
So-called reality programmes dominate much of our television stations. The cult of the individual is in full swing. Participants are openly nasty to each other and compete endlessly over everything. And - wait for it - now we have little kids competing, just like adults, on competitive programmes.

When I first joined the original Wondercafe over ten years ago we communicated with each other over many varied issues. Now every issue is polarized -and there's far more sniping than communicating. It's also binary -this or that. Where is the humour? Where is the compassion? Heck, where is the humanity?
 
ChemGal said:
@PilgrimsProgress
This is the type of thing I was seeing regarding Australia's lockdown.
www.9news.com.au

Melbourne towers lockdown residents stranded without supplies

www.9news.com.au www.9news.com.au
What is actually going on there?
Click to expand...
What is going on here - I'll try and explain.
This was clearly an over-reaction. Victoria's cases jumped alarmingly. The government and folks generally went into panic mode. Food was provided - but, as many were immigrants their different cuisines weren't catered for in the beginning.

But, here's the thing, IT DIDN'TSTAY THAT WAY.


Soon, those in the community outside the towers, were quick to understand the problem, and sent their ethnic cuisines to the housing towers. Communication was also initially a problem, but interpreters helped improve communication between the authorities and the residents.

This is the problem with googling videos. To sell, the media has to be as sensational as possible - and they are!
But, problems do get resolved, authorities and residents both communicate and situations are improved.

But, hey, how many videos do you see saying that a problem as been either improved or resolved. In media terms, that's not sexy, that doesn't gain attention.

Please, please, folks, restrain yourselves from grabbing a video that says what you want it to say - in order to make a point that stands unable to be corrected. It's both simplistic and divisive.

Why is it that individuals are allowed to learn from their mistakes, but not authorities or governments?

Why is not commonsense and critical thinking not common anymore?
 
PilgrimsProgress said:
Why is it that individuals are allowed to learn from their mistakes, but not authorities or governments?
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If I make a mistake as an individual ... should I be accountable or not. How many mistakes am I allowed to make as an individual without individually suffering the consequences. Am I allowed to accidentally enforce my mistake for 1 year ... 2 years ... 3 or more? and then ask for individual permission to please allow me to continue making that same mistake over as long as I apologize often enough and pay someone off.

Put me in the collective ... and if it is made legal... then yes I can continue to make mistakes with impunity if I do not let my conscience get the best of me.

I just don't get why authorities and governments are allowed to make so many of the same mistakes over and over again ... with impunity and the 'not authorized' have to do the suffering.

Can I walk up to you in the street and throw you to the ground and stomp on your neck if you don't want to give me your name and address.? Why do you think it is justifiable for an officer of the law to do it to you or me individually?

I just don't understand this logic of how it is my individual right not to give you as an individual my address and name if I am doing nothing wrong and you do not have the individual right to wrestle me to the ground and handcuff me and take me away somewhere for further processing ...

But some other 'authorized individual' is so justified in doing that exact same thing.

You suggest that people that claim individual freedom to be responsible for their own governance are a sort of selfish idiots. I have learned from my mistakes ... I have enough of my wits about me to know whether my actions are right or wrong with respect to other individuals or groups of individuals.

I am sure that you feel the same confidence in yourself. When you make a mistake you likely own up to it and accept the consequences. Why do you think that other individuals are more incapable of that.

I am not infringing on any other's freedom to be responsible and I just expect the same in return.

I am not hurting anyone by my response to this 'testdemic' ... I did my research and I am confident that I am informed enough to know what is relevant to my responsibility to act with goodwill towards all concerned. I trust that the majority of people that are free to make their own decisions around a 'public health crisis' will opt in favor of being responsible as well. Any others that might deliberately try to 'infect' others ... if there are such people ... they will get around the restrictions anyway ... that is what people with criminal intent are known to do.

With or without 'mandates' ... some of the rules make sense and are in good order but at this point in the crisis at hand a lot of them are counter intuitive ... and they should not have the benefit of unjustifiable 'coercion' at their disposal.

I as an individual do not ... do you?
 
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PilgrimsProgress said:
What is going on here - I'll try and explain.
This was clearly an over-reaction. Victoria's cases jumped alarmingly. The government and folks generally went into panic mode. Food was provided - but, as many were immigrants their different cuisines weren't catered for in the beginning.

But, here's the thing, IT DIDN'TSTAY THAT WAY.


Soon, those in the community outside the towers, were quick to understand the problem, and sent their ethnic cuisines to the housing towers. Communication was also initially a problem, but interpreters helped improve communication between the authorities and the residents.

This is the problem with googling videos. To sell, the media has to be as sensational as possible - and they are!
But, problems do get resolved, authorities and residents both communicate and situations are improved.

But, hey, how many videos do you see saying that a problem as been either improved or resolved. In media terms, that's not sexy, that doesn't gain attention.

Please, please, folks, restrain yourselves from grabbing a video that says what you want it to say - in order to make a point that stands unable to be corrected. It's both simplistic and divisive.

Why is it that individuals are allowed to learn from their mistakes, but not authorities or governments?

Why is not commonsense and critical thinking not common anymore?
Click to expand...
I can certainly understand videos taking the extreme - people weren't able to leave the building whenever they wanted though, correct?I don't agree with lockdowns though unless things are really bad when this was being shown earlier and then hearing about lockdown in Australia with few details I thought it was quite strict. I have said all along I agree with some restrictions. Preferably evidence based. Allowing outdoor playgrounds for example as there isn't good evidence for shutting those down.
What does lockdown mean there? To me calling restrictions like we had here in the spring lockdown is divisive. It wasn't an all or nothing situation, there were lots of freedoms although some were lost. Lockdown implies pretty strict controls I was also happy to see Dr. Hinshaw looking at what happened to the health of residents who were in lockdown situations or at least very strict visitation restrictions Those were eased as preventing covid only is too narrow focused declining health was a major factor for easing the rules. It's about balance restrictions for COVID while not going too far causing other harms.
 
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When autonomously isolated ... two things can not function at the same time ... like the duality of the Golden Rule as a devious thing to tyrants of the single order ...

However this is not to be said publicly under restrained thought process! Leads to fixation and bricking orders ...
 
So - I live in Peel region where restrictions are increasing (above provincial standards) due to ++ increase in rates of positivity and ++ hospital admissions - one hospital has over 100 admitted COVID cases - so that means a private room for each, significantly reducing overall hospital capacity - scheduled surgeries are again being cancelled. Numbers are way higher than last spring. I think its important to remember many of these measures are intended to reduce strain on hospitals so everyone can be served when needed. And here the hospitals are almost always operating at over 100% capacity, as is the case in other areas too I realize. At this point in the year, we'd usually be planning for flu surge - putting beds in hallways, auditoriums, meeting rooms.

In the north area of Peel region (Brampton) the rates are highest. There are many large multi-family/multi-generational homes - most of south Asian culture; many large warehouses/distribution centres/manufacturing plants; Pearson airport. 47% are community spread - most likely via household contact; 14% thru close contact outside the home; 3% via workplace outbreaks & 5% via travel; 22% are source unknown. Highest rates in testing are in 20-40 year olds - who spread to elders living in their homes. There's also 'stigma' to being tested & some who are asymptomatic but positive in lower paid jobs with no sick benefits continue to work due to large families being dependent on them. Also lack of alternate facility for self isolation if living in a large family group. Its complicated.
 
Carolla said:
So - I live in Peel region where restrictions are increasing (above provincial standards) due to ++ increase in rates of positivity and ++ hospital admissions - one hospital has over 100 admitted COVID cases - so that means a private room for each, significantly reducing overall hospital capacity - scheduled surgeries are again being cancelled. Numbers are way higher than last spring. I think its important to remember many of these measures are intended to reduce strain on hospitals so everyone can be served when needed. And here the hospitals are almost always operating at over 100% capacity, as is the case in other areas too I realize. At this point in the year, we'd usually be planning for flu surge - putting beds in hallways, auditoriums, meeting rooms.

In the north area of Peel region (Brampton) the rates are highest. There are many large multi-family/multi-generational homes - most of south Asian culture; many large warehouses/distribution centres/manufacturing plants; Pearson airport. 47% are community spread - most likely via household contact; 14% thru close contact outside the home; 3% via workplace outbreaks & 5% via travel; 22% are source unknown. Highest rates in testing are in 20-40 year olds - who spread to elders living in their homes. There's also 'stigma' to being tested & some who are asymptomatic but positive in lower paid jobs with no sick benefits continue to work due to large families being dependent on them. Also lack of alternate facility for self isolation if living in a large family group. Its complicated.
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Complicated indeed, thanks for the insights. What's happening in Europe right now, may have similar patterns contributing to their increased numbers...plus numerous demonstrations caused by Covid fatigue and not wanting to isolate when warranted.
 
Mrs.Anteater said:
Hopefully they will look into this.
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Still unknown: “Does (the Pfizer vaccine) attenuate the disease? Does it reduce spread to other people,” Morris, a professor of medicine at the University of Toronto said. “Those are equally important things.”

Also missing from Pfizer’s press release was any mention of whether the experimental vaccine prevents hospitalizations or deaths.

“You’d really need to see the full array of safety information to have a critical appraisal of the vaccine,” Kimmelman said.

A Royal Society of Canada policy briefing released last week on the furious pace of COVID-19 science and how it’s being communicated to the public cautions that ...

"Many in Canada “already have concerns about any vaccine and hesitancy is on the rise.”(y)
 
All of Manitoba goes 'red' as of Thursday to prevent 'so called COVID-19' spread. Household-only social contacts, no gatherings. Closures include restaurants (take-out only), personal services (hair salons etc.), gyms, sports, religious centres, museums, libraries, theatres.
ChemGal said:
Lockdown implies pretty strict controls
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I don't care what they call it ... I call it tyranny.
 
Ritafee said:
I don't care what they call it ... I call it tyranny.
Click to expand...

Someone doesn't like being told what to do....

Cheddar Cheese Crying GIF by Dietz & Watson
 
Waterfall said:
Complicated indeed, thanks for the insights. What's happening in Europe right now, may have similar patterns contributing to their increased numbers...plus numerous demonstrations caused by Covid fatigue and not wanting to isolate when warranted.
Click to expand...
One hotspot area in Germany, Berchtesgarden, had gone into a lockdown three weeks ago. Its a tourist area and they made all the tourists go home and people had to stay in and close to their homes unless having good reasons to go other places. Those measurements now showed results, the infection rate was cut in half. They are now opening up again to a ” lockdown light” as the rest of Germany has.
 
I do wish we would focus less on cases, which honestly don’t mean too much, and more on hospitalizations and deaths

if lots of people have the virus, but aren’t particularly sick, then we don’t need to restrict much

it if we are getting lots in the hospital then something is up
 
Mrs.Anteater said:
One hotspot area in Germany, Berchtesgarden, had gone into a lockdown three weeks ago. Its a tourist area and they made all the tourists go home and people had to stay in and close to their homes unless having good reasons to go other places. Those measurements now showed results, the infection rate was cut in half. They are now opening up again to a ” lockdown light” as the rest of Germany has.
Click to expand...
This all seems to point out that we need to continue to take this virus seriously and not let up to soon because people and businesses are complaining.
Anti maskers shouldnt get to decide if others get sick IMO.
 
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