Can You Be Rich and Be a Christian?

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Well I'm not sure if physicians consider themselves wealthy, or police officers. They are in the 'sunshine club" of over 100k a year and I consider that wealthy. Anyway, the good doctor invites people living rough back to his beautiful country home for a pamper. Nice amenities and a good meal. A comfortable bed. Just for a night, but it was welcome by the people in the shelter. I think he was a bit cautious, but I know it was appreciated.
 
Well I'm not sure if physicians consider themselves wealthy, or police officers.

I think a lot of people expect to see docs on there but are surprised to see cops and firefighters. A lot of profs make the list, too. Any prof who makes it to full Professor pretty much makes close to or over 100K now. Ditto deans and chairs.

My take for some time now is that 100K is simply too low a threshold for that list. The numbers and diversity of people making 100K makes it meaningless nowadays. I would prefer to get rid of it and instead just publish salaries for politicians, senior bureaucrats, and maybe senior management roles like police and fire chiefs. Similar to how publicly traded corporations have to publish executive compensation.
 
I am glad the Poverty gospel was brought into play here ------To be in poverty is not the will of God ---and anyone who thinks it is God"s will is not familiar with His word -----Poverty comes under the Curse ----as seen here ---

Curse – Hebrew: ‘aror – Curse, to remove the influence of God.

Jeremiah 17
5 This is what the Lord says:

Cursed is the one who trusts in man,
who draws strength from mere flesh
and whose heart turns away from the Lord.

6 That person will be like a bush in the wastelands;
they will not see prosperity when it comes.
They will dwell in the parched places of the desert,
in a salt land where no one lives.

7 “But blessed is the one who trusts in the Lord,
whose confidence is in him.
8 They will be like a tree planted by the water
that sends out its roots by the stream.
It does not fear when heat comes;
its leaves are always green.
It has no worries in a year of drought
and never fails to bear fruit.”



Interesting read here ----


Causes of Poverty in the New Testament
One cause of poverty in the New Testament was those who became rich by oppressing the poor
(James 5:1-4) or by hoarding riches in the face of obvious needs (Luke 12:15-21). In the first century, creating wealth was difficult because the vast majority of the population was employed in subsistence farming. Riches were commonly accumulated through oppressing workers, exploiting slaves, and taxing people heavily.

A second cause of poverty resulted from laziness or moral foolishness such that an individual failed to create wealth through honest work (2 Thessalonians 3:11; Ephesians 4:28; Luke 15:11-24). Church leaders were instructed to admonish the idle (1 Thessalonians 5:14) and rebuke the lazy (Titus 1:12-13). The expectation of believers was to “aspire to live quietly, and to mind your own affairs, and to work with your hands, as we instructed you, so you may walk properly before outsiders and be dependent on no one” (1 Thessalonians 4:11-12).

A third cause involved sudden disasters that destroyed wealth, or calamities—such as droughts—that inhibited farmers from creating wealth (Luke 15:4-9). Limited technology and markets made recovery from loss much more difficult in the first century, and this contributed to ongoing poverty. For example, a shepherd could only expect to increase his flock in the birthing season, whereas a modern factory could make up for lost production using three shifts around the clock.

Problems associated with living in a fallen world – such as old age, illness, or loss of family members – constituted a fourth cause of poverty. Blindness or other infirmities prevented many from working to create wealth. Women were frequently widowed and needed to rely on their children or even grandchildren to care for their needs (1 Timothy 5:3-4).


I say ----my view --------We still today live in a fallen Cursed world where sin reigns and we have free will to make choices in this life -----We humans think we are all that and don"t need God's input into our choices -----we make bad deals and choices which can lead to our financial ruin ---we rack up huge credit card debt cause we want what we want now ------we don't feel like being with our spouse any more so we leave and put stress and strain on the family unit and cut backs financially are the order of the day with no thought of what it does to our children ----so poverty is the result ----people are also products of following their parents footsteps in staying on welfare -----Business don't want to pay well so Greed plays a big part as well as companies not wanting to pay for benefits to full time workers so they only hire mostly part time workers ---- all these factors in my view contribute to people living in poverty ----

This Pandemic I am sure will put many families in the material and physical poverty group at no fault of their own --physical poverty to me is sickness and disease brought on by the great stresses associated with job loss etc -

So there is material and physical poverty for sure ------which is the negative side of poverty -------worldly poverty is not from God nor is it God's will for us -------scripture makes that very clear -----1 John 2:15-16 says don't love the world or anything in it ----James 4:4 says ---anyone who loves or is friends of the world is an enemy of God ---

Then there is the Spiritual Poverty -------this poverty is on the positive side of this word -----when we are Spiritually poor we are close to God ---and God then can work in our lives to bring us to Spiritual richness -----Jesus died and shed His Blood so we could be brought back to bring Spiritual rich -----Jesus became Spiritually Poor so we could be Spiritually rich ----to receive all Spiritually Blessings ----

WE need to understand that Jesus knew that material and physical poverty would always be a part of this fallen world as this world is under a Curse ----but just because this world is still Cursed does not mean that we as individuals have to live under the curse of this world -----Jesus is our way out ----if we so choose to want to change our status we can do that -----we have free will to choose our path in this life -----receiving Jesus is free ---and the blessings that come with receiving this free gift are great -----God's Grace is mighty and powerful and will and can turn a personal bad situation in a good situation ----- material and physical poverty for each individual can be turned around through their receiving and trusting in Christ not this world or man ----

Deuteronomy 15;11 and Matthew 26:11 ---both say ----


11 There will always be poor people in the land. Therefore I command you to be openhanded toward your fellow Israelites who are poor and needy in your land.


11 The poor you will always have with you,[a] but you will not always have me.


I say --my opinion ----When the New Earth comes in place of this Cursed earth ---there will be no Poverty --no tears ---no sickness or disease and no more death -----only Spiritual Bliss will be present ------peace --joy --happiness and contentment -----until then I hate to say it but the chaos that is happening now in this wicked world will be in place
 
Unsafe, I think you're contradicting Jesus here.

What do you think Jesus was talking about when he said it was easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to get to heaven?

Seems like a plain meaning would suggest that if anyone could consider you rich, then you should give stuff away until you aren't at risk of hell anymore.
 
Mark, Matthew and Luke present a rich young ruler who asks Jesus about the way to eternal life. Jesus engages the question with several comments. He concludes with: ”If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”
 
And he leaves sad, as he doesn't want to give up his possessions. I'd love to get rid of my possessions. Several dumpsters would be a fine start...
 
Mark, Matthew and Luke present a rich young ruler who asks Jesus about the way to eternal life. Jesus engages the question with several comments. He concludes with: ”If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”
Do you think that was a story for the young ruler (or us) to "test" his heart and/or for him to look inward at himself? It also sounds a bit conditional. Do we want to be perfect?
If the whole world did that in order to get into heaven we'd either all be poor or there would be nothing to give to the poor. Of course if everyone was poor money wise, we would be equal but would we necessarily share if we all didn't have anything? Would we feed the children first and the disabled?
It makes more sense to "right our hearts", right where we are.
 
And he leaves sad, as he doesn't want to give up his possessions. I'd love to get rid of my possessions. Several dumpsters would be a fine start...
Do it Bette, there's more junk waiting for you in heaven.....sadly nothing about a virgin.
 
There is the material God and the immaterial God ... really the material is real and the alter is only an essence ... resembles a wisp Eire ...
 
Do you think that was a story for the young ruler (or us) to "test" his heart and/or for him to look inward at himself? It also sounds a bit conditional. Do we want to be perfect?
If the whole world did that in order to get into heaven we'd either all be poor or there would be nothing to give to the poor. Of course if everyone was poor money wise, we would be equal but would we necessarily share if we all didn't have anything? Would we feed the children first and the disabled?
It makes more sense to "right our hearts", right where we are.
The story is useful to all who hear it. It tells me that the kingdom of heaven is within me; as in all others. It is like silver buried in the earth which requires refinement; the burning away of that which hides the silver. For me this is the process of sanctification. We are spirit beings dwelling in a material universe. The true treasure following the way of the spirit is: “love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control.” In our day this wealth has been eclipsed by the love and pursuit of money and the things we can buy. This gets sadder every day.
 
The story is useful to all who hear it. It tells me that the kingdom of heaven is within me; as in all others. It is like silver buried in the earth which requires refinement; the burning away of that which hides the silver. For me this is the process of sanctification. We are spirit beings dwelling in a material universe. The true treasure following the way of the spirit is: “love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control.” In our day this wealth has been eclipsed by the love and pursuit of money and the things we can buy. This gets sadder every day.

Resembles a doppelganger ...and you know how brotherhoods put down sybil and her ilk! Unlike brothers ... despised ... cis turns ... and the mind speaks of itself in code ... that's the greater narrative ...
 
GeoFee ----you said ------He concludes with: ”If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”

iI say ---you say ---you follow Jesus ----have you sold all your possessions -----and live travelling the roads on foot in sandals to preach your message -----like Jesus did ------if you say this is what this scripture is saying and you follow it then you should not own one thing -you should be travelling from place to place on foot to preach your message of poverty ------if you still have one possession then you are a hypocrite ------that is my view

I have a different view on this piece of scripture -----it is about thinking more of your possessions then you do of Jesus ---that is the moral of the story -----it is all about where your heart lies ----with your stuff or with Jesus ---
 
GeoFee ----you said ------He concludes with: ”If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”

iI say ---you say ---you follow Jesus ----have you sold all your possessions -----and live travelling the roads on foot in sandals to preach your message -----like Jesus did ------if you say this is what this scripture is saying and you follow it then you should not own one thing -you should be travelling from place to place on foot to preach your message of poverty ------if you still have one possession then you are a hypocrite ------that is my view

I have a different view on this piece of scripture -----it is about thinking more of your possessions then you do of Jesus ---that is the moral of the story -----it is all about where your heart lies ----with your stuff or with Jesus ---
And having food and raiment let us be therewith content. But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition. For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

My heart is rooted in the presence of God within me. The few things I have are given to me by the grace of God. I use them to express God’s Grace in and through all my relations. When it comes time to let them go I will do so gladly.

One example may help you understand my position. I am a part time minister at a United Church. The salary I receive is returned as a donation to that Church.
 
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BetteTheRed -----you ask ------What do you think Jesus was talking about when he said it was easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to get to heaven?

i say ------the word camel here represent wealth as people who owned camels were known to be wealthy -----the camel it self would never fit through the eye of the needle we know that ----so Jesus is using the camel as an example of the character needed to go through the needle ----A camel apparently is meek and mild --it carries large burdens ---it bows down to load and unload its burdens etc ---so Jesus is saying because the camel has these characteristics it is easier for the camel to go through the eye of the needle ---which is referring to the Narrow Gate to heaven ---which is referring to Jesus himself ---than it is for a rich man -----who Loves his possessions more than God -----and this is a hindrance for his Salvation -----

We are to Love God and God will provide us with what we need and what we can handle in the wealth department ------
 
GoeFee -----you quoted a scripture -----I simply said if you believe what the scripture says and you preach ---go sell all your stuff and follow Jesus and you still have stuff ---then your a hypocrite ------that pertains to anyone taking the scripture as it is and preaching it without explaining the real message behind the scripture -----
 
GoeFee -----you quoted a scripture -----I simply said if you believe what the scripture says and you preach ---go sell all your stuff and follow Jesus and you still have stuff ---then your a hypocrite ------that pertains to anyone taking the scripture as it is and preaching it without explaining the real message behind the scripture -----
When it comes right down to it, it's possible Grace will overrule how we have lived on this earth anyway.
Careful who you call a hypocrite....isn't that God's call?
 
GoeFee -----you quoted a scripture -----I simply said if you believe what the scripture says and you preach ---go sell all your stuff and follow Jesus and you still have stuff ---then your a hypocrite ------that pertains to anyone taking the scripture as it is and preaching it without explaining the real message behind the scripture -----
The real message of scripture being your interpretation?

Scripture is not the word of God. It is inspired by the word and testifies to the word. As it is written:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.”
 
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Waterfall ---you said ---
When it comes right down to it, it's possible Grace will overrule how we have lived on this earth anyway.
Careful who you call a hypocrite....isn't that God's call?

I say ---a big Fat No
Jesus is God and Jesus clearly says ----one must be Born Again ----and God says in Revelations ----nothing unclean can enter heaven ----the only way to be clean is to Receive Jesus in your heart who is Grace and Grace comes through Faith ----Sin makes us unclean and unacceptable in God's Holy domain -----Good living --going to church --serving in the soup kitchen ---serving your neighbour --God's love ---or Grace without the proper Faith will not save anybody ------ Jesus is also the word ----- So if Grace by itself saves then Jesus who is the word lies and that makes the whole Bible a big fat lie -----So if you want to believe that --you go right ahead ---I don't



far as your statement here ------Careful who you call a hypocrite....isn't that God's call?

No that is our call when Preachers tell their people to live a certain way and they they don't follow that way -themselves ---a hypocrite is a person who preaches that in order to follow Jesus you must sell all you have and they themselves keep all there stuff ------they are in fact a hypocrite and -----Jesus called the Pharisees Hypocrites ---and Jesus is God ===and gives a warning about it ----

Matthew 23


A Warning Against Hypocrisy
23 Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 2 “The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3 So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach. 4 They tie up heavy, cumbersome loads and put them on other people’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.
 
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