And a lot of the people working in minimum wage service jobs taking a risk because they have to, not because they want to, are not white. And they’re not at the beach because they’re working to sell “necessities” to the people who were at the beach. That’s a function of class and privilege - a colonial hold-over. It’s probably pretty typical in big cities right now, unfortunately. I’m disappointed with the Vancouver beach-bums.
Novel Coronavirus
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More sad news...a kind of "death". Army & Navy stores are closing permanently after 101 years, due to the pandemic. They were western Canada's "Walmart" and/ or dollar store decades before there was Walmart or a dollar store. It's like Woolworth's was, sort of. Old-school "Five and Dime"... Except they sold higher quality "last year's stock" items from other stores' overstock, and regular brand name groceries - smaller selection. And they had great shoes, designer shoes - really cheap, like 60-70% less than they would cost anywhere else, everyday - and way more selection than Winners. So, when they had their annual shoe sale people would line up for it. The Vancouver store was iconic. Located in the downtown eastside, I didn't like going by myself in the winter as it gets dark early...but it was a good place to shop for almost everything, except furniture (maybe they had some cheap patio furniture but not much). They clothed and fed some of the poorest in town - with decent items.
The downtown eastside probably looks like a post-war zone right now, if most of the stores and small businesses are closed and boarded up. It already did, now it would be much worse. It's still a heavily populated area...so I shudder to think how people are managing right now.
The downtown eastside probably looks like a post-war zone right now, if most of the stores and small businesses are closed and boarded up. It already did, now it would be much worse. It's still a heavily populated area...so I shudder to think how people are managing right now.
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This is going to change the whole physical and economic landscape, everywhere. Jeff Bezos is probably rubbing his greedy hands together with glee (which is not a conspiracy theory...Amazon is thriving through this pandemic and will continue to as stores close down for good) , while cities are about to fall into terminal decay. I worry that everywhere will look like Detroit did when it went bankrupt. It's not a conspiracy theory...that fear is real. Like, when we all leave our sheltered areas, what will everything look like? I haven't been downtown in months...though I was thinking I might go to the edge of downtown tomorrow to get to the park where the peacocks live. I'm afraid to see what the centre of downtown looks like though. There's a big tent city there, I've heard from people, and read. And businesses are boarded up. But there are real people, with real lives and livelihoods at stake there.
I'm with Rita in the sense that this cannot go on indefinitely...though I don't believe we can narrow it down to a handful of conspirators to lay the blame on. There's more than just the toll from the virus to think about. We have to be more careful about crowds for the foreseeable future, but we can't let everything outside our residential "fortresses", everything but the burbs, fall to s**t, either. It's sad and kind of scary.
I'm with Rita in the sense that this cannot go on indefinitely...though I don't believe we can narrow it down to a handful of conspirators to lay the blame on. There's more than just the toll from the virus to think about. We have to be more careful about crowds for the foreseeable future, but we can't let everything outside our residential "fortresses", everything but the burbs, fall to s**t, either. It's sad and kind of scary.
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Unlike Rita...I believe the sooner there's a widely used vaccine, the better. Honestly...I do not believe that governments want this economic depression to happen. They did not plot this because it sucks for them, too. No world leader, no politician, no elected official, wants potentially the greatest depression in a century, to happen on their watch. Seriously. Nobody. And it's just good dumb freaking luck for the likes of Bezos. But if manufacturing plants go to s**t and he can't employ people in his warehouses (and the robots aren't available as shift replacements quite yet) then even he's going to "suffer".
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EasternOrthodox
Well-Known Member
I got a book on it but one of the side effects of the situation is that I can’t concentrate enough to read more than a few pages. My mind keeps drifting. It travelled both ways across the Atlantic. It apparently mutated and became much more lethal. In Kansas it was not very serious. When it returned from Europe later it was much worse.
EasternOrthodox
Well-Known Member
Amazon reported less than stellar return at the end of April (Quarter 1). They’ve hired thousands of new delivery people and that costs.
EasternOrthodox
Well-Known Member
There is a possible cause that should be better known. This is confirmed science.
Inadequate Vitamin D degrades your immune system. If you go outside, the sunlight on your skin causes Vitamin D to form.
The darker your skin is, the less light gets through. This was fine in the old days. Dark skinned people lived in places where the sun was stronger (closer to the equator). But now many dark skinned people are living much farther north. Most of them do not not know that need to take a supplement. My GP (from India) seems to know about but it’s not publicized much.
White people don't get enough vitamin D in the winter too. That is not it!
Inuit have darker skin than white people and they live in the far north
That theory sounds like bs to me.
(Edit:You are right about Vit D absorption. I looked it up. But not necessarily about a biological cause for more covid cases in black people - seeing as NYC had not been a particularly sunny spot when covid hit at the end of winter, everyone would be vitamin D deficient. And the black people I know don't have weaker immune systems. That's bulls**t. It's socioeconomic not race based biological differences that are the reason. Period.)
That theory sounds like bs to me.
(Edit:You are right about Vit D absorption. I looked it up. But not necessarily about a biological cause for more covid cases in black people - seeing as NYC had not been a particularly sunny spot when covid hit at the end of winter, everyone would be vitamin D deficient. And the black people I know don't have weaker immune systems. That's bulls**t. It's socioeconomic not race based biological differences that are the reason. Period.)
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EasternOrthodox
Well-Known Member
I suspect there are multiple causes. Look up Vitamin D and the immune system.
There is a big article about it (poorer outcomes for Covid) in today’s New York Times. They’ve had previous articles too. But many of their examples are not poor blacks.
The current thinking that there is a type of racism that’s not conscious, but sort of baked in. There is no question that racism used to be rife. I don’t think this can ruled out.
But I’ve read other articles noting that poor whites also have poorer outcomes. The situation seems complex to me. We should look at possible causes carefully but not expect a single explanation.
Racism is rife today.
First you said "Many of the examples are not all poor blacks."
Then you said "Poor whites also have poorer outcomes"
See the problem with that?
Are you saying people who are dying from covid mostly because they're poor (that's a huge part of it where people don't have medical insurance)? Or because they're black? You are saying two different things depending on whether they're black or white. In the case of blacks you seem to be leaning to genetics as a cause (which is wrong), but with whites, it's the poorer ones you understand have been hit harder.
The most obvious cause is socioeconomic.
First you said "Many of the examples are not all poor blacks."
Then you said "Poor whites also have poorer outcomes"
See the problem with that?
Are you saying people who are dying from covid mostly because they're poor (that's a huge part of it where people don't have medical insurance)? Or because they're black? You are saying two different things depending on whether they're black or white. In the case of blacks you seem to be leaning to genetics as a cause (which is wrong), but with whites, it's the poorer ones you understand have been hit harder.
The most obvious cause is socioeconomic.
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Lastpointe
Well-Known Member
There are many reasons why the black population in the USA is more affected, poverty, poorer housing but as a population they are more susceptible to diabetes and obesity and high blood pressure. I am sure there are lots of reasons but genetics plays a part
we Canadians are reluctant to collect race base stats, but if you don’t know who is most affected you are unable to properly tackle issues. Of any kind
we were slow, as a country to ramp up our protections. We focused all our efforts on hospitals and let nursing homes just exist. The government knew that elderly were affected most around the world. We saw what happened in Italy. And still we did a poor job
we Canadians are reluctant to collect race base stats, but if you don’t know who is most affected you are unable to properly tackle issues. Of any kind
we were slow, as a country to ramp up our protections. We focused all our efforts on hospitals and let nursing homes just exist. The government knew that elderly were affected most around the world. We saw what happened in Italy. And still we did a poor job
BetteTheRed
Resident Heretic
- Pronouns
- She/Her/Her
I hope you're not making the argument that there are NO biological differences between populations, because that isn't true, either.
The biological differences are very slight. 0.4-0.5%. So slight as to not be worth mentioning in the context of a pandemic virus. The differences are superficial. Most human beings are mixed ancestry except for very few native tribes. Health differences are environmental and socioeconomic. Nutrition accounts for much of it. Whoever needs to take vitamin D because they don't get enough sun, whether they be black white or polka dotted, needs to be able to afford to buy them. We all need 10-30 minutes of direct sun on our forearms and faces several times a week. Most of Canada is vitamin D deficient in the winter. That would go for some of the colder states like NY too. And when it's warmer it's easier for everyone to get enough sun.
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Basically, I am, yes. The biological differences are mainly superficial. There are likely as many differences between you and I biologically, and we are both white, as there are between you or I and an African American woman.
This needs to be read and understood:
Genetics may play a small part but it's a moot point used to justify or disregard the main reason more black people are hit harder. Systemic racism! If they had proper nutrition, housing, and healthcare to compensate and look after whatever predispositions to illness they may have (and each and every one of us has some predispositions to something in our DNA) there wouldn't be larger numbers of black people dying from Covid.
There were racists in a country in Eastern Europe saying their ancestral blood makes them immune from covid because they are are genetically stronger. Until they got hit pretty hard and had to stfu about that. We need to take the differences between "races" off the table - we live in one world and are one human race - because the reasons for the spread in NYC and other hard hit places is political mismanagement of resources.
Lastpointe
Well-Known Member
Kimmio there are numerous diseases that affect particular races. Sickle cell disease is almost completely a black disease. Yay Sachs is almost exclusively a Jewish disease. Huntington’s chorea is almost exclusively in a few family groups.........
it is incorrect to say genetics play no part
it is incorrect to say genetics play no part
Genetics plays no part. It's a moot point. Every person and family has slightly different genetics from each other. Pointing out differences in genetics (0.4-0.5% differences across the whole human race) is being used as an excuse - for If they had proper health care and were not poorer due to systemic racism, any genetic predispositions they have to heart disease could be looked after, underlying conditions prevented, and they would not be dying in higher numbers.
We all have dormant predispositions that need a trigger to become active in our bodies. Socioeconomic disparity triggers a lot of problems in any population and systemic racism is the cause of that in NYC's black community.
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Lack of prevention and care for whatever predispositions anyone of any race has that is making them more sick from covid is socioeconomic.