Novel Coronavirus

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Feeling a bit grumpy today. Just heard that our hoped for campsite for the summer will probably not be available after all. Public Health seem to be deciding that ALL camping is 'close contact'. We, of course co-habit, and are pretty much staying away from others. No trips to Costco or Walmart for us. Our dreamed of campsite is isolated - on a low use northern lake in the forest. Six or seven sites. We camped at the same campground last year and were often the only people there! I understand that there are flu outbreaks on some of the Reserves in the north - but we will be far away from them. PP campgrounds aren't where most indigenous folks hang out anyway. Seems to me it is more 'dangerous' to go into a local store for some milk or something. Mutter,mutter, grump.

I find myself quite puzzled by some of the rules. Like the nimrod in Ottawa who said no waving through windows. Omg. Let’s get serious here. If visitors are standing too close to each other, then deal with that individual issue

and parks. I get that we don’t want people congregating. So you have a bylaw officer, not to ticket but to move people along. Beaches the same. People can be outside and be much further from each other than they ever are in a store

i feel like bureaucrats are just getting silly
 
And someone got into trouble for shooting baskets in a park ALL BY HIMSELF. Not a soul around. I guess the argument is that park amenities are closed and one person shooting hoops is a slippery slope.

It is allowable here in Toronto to walk through a park as long as you don't have to drive to get there. There is some confusion about whether or not it is okay to sit down on a park bench. (Is said bench a "park amenity" or not?)
 
and parks. I get that we don’t want people congregating. So you have a bylaw officer, not to ticket but to move people along. Beaches the same. People can be outside and be much further from each other than they ever are in a store

Nanaimo has created "friendly ambassadors" (or a similar name) who will be in parks to remind people to maintain distance if they forget. That's a much better way to respond than to give penalties. Most people I've seen in the parks have been very respectful of space.


It is allowable here in Toronto to walk through a park as long as you don't have to drive to get there.

What the heck is the rationale behind that? Why no driving to the park?
 
I am pleased with how things are going here vs. Ontario. I have heard of some who were ticketed for eating burritos in a park in Calgary. The article made it sound like the group wasn't far enough apart (I think there were 3?) I wonder though if it was more about using picnic tables or something like that.
When it was windy I saw a good number of people in parks, flying kites, Chemguy and I walked through a few green spaces. Some kids were using a soccer field, keeping a distance - I'm not sure if that part is technically allowed here, depends if that counts as playground equipment I guess, but I would hope there would be a warning before a ticket would be given out.

The confusing thing I see is with phase 1 vs. phase 2. Most phase one aspects allow for paramedical services. It also allows for hair stylists. Massage though is lumped in with many cosmetology services - nails, facials, waxing, tanning etc. and reiki. Many physiotherapists make use of massage, so I don't understand why massage therapists weren't included. I know my therapist is a bit upset, not due to the timing aspect, but just due to how they are being lumped in (one bullet point) with cosmetic stuff and I know I would be upset if I were an RMT too. I think the problem here though is lack of regulation.

I'm wondering what local rules will be too, Edmonton put in some bylaw restrictions before the province, so unsure if when the province opens up some services if here will we have equal access like other places in the province. Edmonton is doing well for a large city.
 
What the heck is the rationale behind that? Why no driving to the park?
They have closed the parking lots found in parks and are encouraging us to stay close to home. Some parks in this city are big magnets for crowds, especially when the weather is nice. So they are trying to keep the participation local, I guess.
 
They had closed the parking lots in high park. It you can drive to a grocery store and park there. So what is the difference

my kids both live near high park. It just meant that side streets were lined with parked cars

and now for the cherry blossoms, which are totally gorgeous most years, they have shut down the entire park. High park is a massive place. wooded areas, picnic areas, several roads , a restaurant, hockey, pools, tennis, baseball fields..........

and a pond lined with cherry trees given by japan to Toronto. So instead of blocking off the cherry trees area, and letting people line up like at a grocery store, they have blocked the entire park. No walking, no running, no dogs........
 
The Rouge Park, which is near to me, is also closed. I think because it is a national park and they have decided to shut them all down.

Never, ever have I been it when crowds are a problem. Sometimes the parking lots will get full, granted, but once you are into the open areas or on the trails, there is so much space it isn't even funny. Surely the parking issue could be managed somehow. It is an amazing resource which many of our spirits could use right now.
 
And we are not stopping people from parking. Grocery stores, liquor stores. And they aren’t even blocking off every other parking spot. Which if they were worried about being too close to another car you could do that

i find some of the things done and just not logical

canada , as a country that coped with SARS, has not handled this well. We were not properly stocked up. We didn’t properly prepare for what was comI guess. We seemed too eager to be “open.“. To China, to Europe to the USA.

we have room in hospitals and that is good. We prepared for a disaster that hasn’t actually happened because the population got on side with not going to work, not mingling.......

i compare it to Croatia. Granted a population of only 5 million

but it’s beside Italy. A lot of Croatians have italian heritage as the borders have moved a lot over the centuries. Our grandmother was Italian. Everyone drives to Italy to ski

they closed the borders. They closed the schools. The stopped driving with the country. They ended up with minimal deaths, minimal infections. Even with the close contact in italy

schools reopen Monday. For some grades. Businesses are ready to reopen. Driving restrictions with in the country are about to be lifted
 
They have closed the parking lots found in parks and are encouraging us to stay close to home. Some parks in this city are big magnets for crowds, especially when the weather is nice. So they are trying to keep the participation local, I guess.
I’m not even attempting to go out. The rules are really hard to understand.
 
I’m not even attempting to go out. The rules are really hard to understand.
You're not the only one who thinks so! Rev Cameron Trimble (from Atlanta) wrote this - which sums it up pretty well I think! :ROFLMAO:
Advisory​
Please read and follow these simple rules:​
1. Basically, you can't leave the house for any reason, but if you have to, then you can.​
2. Masks are useless, but maybe you have to wear one, it can save you, it is useless, but maybe it is mandatory as well.​
3. Stores are closed, except those that are open.​
4. You should not go to hospitals unless you have to go there. Same applies to doctors, you should only go there in case of emergency, provided you are not too sick.​
5. This virus is deadly but still not too scary, except that sometimes it actually leads to a global disaster.​
6. Gloves won't help, but they can still help.​
7. Everyone needs to stay HOME, but it's important to GO OUT.​
8. There is no shortage of groceries in the supermarket, but there are many things missing when you go there in the evening, but not in the morning. Sometimes.​
9. The virus has no effect on children except those it affects.​
10. Animals are not affected, but there is still a cat that tested positive in Belgium in February when no one had been tested, plus a few tigers here and there…​
11. You will have many symptoms when you are sick, but you can also get sick without symptoms, have symptoms without being sick, or be contagious without having symptoms. Oh, my..​
12. In order not to get sick, you have to eat well and exercise, but eat whatever you have on hand and it's better not to go out, well, but no…​
13. It's better to get some fresh air, but you get looked at very wrong when you get some fresh air, and most importantly, you don't go to parks or walk. But don’t sit down, except that you can do that now if you are old, but not for too long or if you are pregnant (but not too old).​
14. You can't go to retirement homes, but you have to take care of the elderly and bring food and medication.​
15. If you are sick, you can't go out, but you can go to the pharmacy.​
16. You can get restaurant food delivered to the house, which may have been prepared by people who didn't wear masks or gloves. But you have to have your groceries decontaminated outside for 3 hours. Pizza too?​
17. Every disturbing article or disturbing interview starts with " I don't want to trigger panic, but…"​
18. You can't see your older mother or grandmother, but you can take a taxi and meet an older taxi driver.​
19. You can walk around with a friend but not with your family if they don't live under the same roof.​
20. You are safe if you maintain the appropriate social distance, but you can’t go out with friends or strangers at the safe social distance.​
21. The virus remains active on different surfaces for two hours, no, four, no, six, no, we didn't say hours, maybe days? But it takes a damp environment. Oh no, not necessarily.​
22. The virus stays in the air - well no, or yes, maybe, especially in a closed room, in one hour a sick person can infect ten, so if it falls, all our children were already infected at school before it was closed. But remember, if you stay at the recommended social distance, however in certain circumstances you should maintain a greater distance, which, studies show, the virus can travel further, maybe.​
23. We count the number of deaths but we don't know how many people are infected as we have only tested so far those who were "almost dead" to find out if that's what they will die of…​
24. We have no treatment, except that there may be one that apparently is not dangerous unless you take too much (which is the case with all medications).​
25. We should stay locked up until the virus disappears, but it will only disappear if we achieve collective immunity, so when it circulates… but we must no longer be locked up for that?​

 
This is an excellent critique of two doctors whose video is making the rounds these days.

Let's Talk About the Bakersfield Duo
This is a really EXCELLENT article IMO - I hope everyone will read it. A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing - and statistics are not really quite so simple to understand! Public health & epidemiology are specialties for a reason.
 
I LOVE the way the writer makes the point that the test positive rate does not equal the prevalence rate.

In order to determine the prevalence rate, a random sample of the population must be done. I have expressed this opinion many times over the last few months. I am sure I have mentioned it once or twice here on WC2.

Ontario, with its plans to reopen the economy, is only looking at the test positive rate.
Wait ... I thought they were basing it on the number of cases being lower than expected, not that they had a high prevalence rate and therefore assuming immunity?
 
In general I don't find the rules here too confusing, the soccer fields I didn't pay close attention to as that's not really a concern for me.
 
You're not the only one who thinks so! Rev Cameron Trimble (from Atlanta) wrote this - which sums it up pretty well I think! :ROFLMAO:

Advisory​
Please read and follow these simple rules:​
1. Basically, you can't leave the house for any reason, but if you have to, then you can.​
2. Masks are useless, but maybe you have to wear one, it can save you, it is useless, but maybe it is mandatory as well.​
3. Stores are closed, except those that are open.​
4. You should not go to hospitals unless you have to go there. Same applies to doctors, you should only go there in case of emergency, provided you are not too sick.​
5. This virus is deadly but still not too scary, except that sometimes it actually leads to a global disaster.​
6. Gloves won't help, but they can still help.​
7. Everyone needs to stay HOME, but it's important to GO OUT.​
8. There is no shortage of groceries in the supermarket, but there are many things missing when you go there in the evening, but not in the morning. Sometimes.​
9. The virus has no effect on children except those it affects.​
10. Animals are not affected, but there is still a cat that tested positive in Belgium in February when no one had been tested, plus a few tigers here and there…​
11. You will have many symptoms when you are sick, but you can also get sick without symptoms, have symptoms without being sick, or be contagious without having symptoms. Oh, my..​
12. In order not to get sick, you have to eat well and exercise, but eat whatever you have on hand and it's better not to go out, well, but no…​
13. It's better to get some fresh air, but you get looked at very wrong when you get some fresh air, and most importantly, you don't go to parks or walk. But don’t sit down, except that you can do that now if you are old, but not for too long or if you are pregnant (but not too old).​
14. You can't go to retirement homes, but you have to take care of the elderly and bring food and medication.​
15. If you are sick, you can't go out, but you can go to the pharmacy.​
16. You can get restaurant food delivered to the house, which may have been prepared by people who didn't wear masks or gloves. But you have to have your groceries decontaminated outside for 3 hours. Pizza too?​
17. Every disturbing article or disturbing interview starts with " I don't want to trigger panic, but…"​
18. You can't see your older mother or grandmother, but you can take a taxi and meet an older taxi driver.​
19. You can walk around with a friend but not with your family if they don't live under the same roof.​
20. You are safe if you maintain the appropriate social distance, but you can’t go out with friends or strangers at the safe social distance.​
21. The virus remains active on different surfaces for two hours, no, four, no, six, no, we didn't say hours, maybe days? But it takes a damp environment. Oh no, not necessarily.​
22. The virus stays in the air - well no, or yes, maybe, especially in a closed room, in one hour a sick person can infect ten, so if it falls, all our children were already infected at school before it was closed. But remember, if you stay at the recommended social distance, however in certain circumstances you should maintain a greater distance, which, studies show, the virus can travel further, maybe.​
23. We count the number of deaths but we don't know how many people are infected as we have only tested so far those who were "almost dead" to find out if that's what they will die of…​
24. We have no treatment, except that there may be one that apparently is not dangerous unless you take too much (which is the case with all medications).​
25. We should stay locked up until the virus disappears, but it will only disappear if we achieve collective immunity, so when it circulates… but we must no longer be locked up for that?​
Exactly! Some days I feel at the mercy of bureaucratic chaos and feel like nobody calling the shots really knows what they're doing, they're just trying things out and seeing what happens - like we're rats in somebody else's huge lab experiment.

However, by the numbers here where I am there are only about 2 dozen active cases of people staying at home recovering. The rest are supervised and confined to a hospital, have died (4 ppl), or have recovered. Two dozen who could potentially walk around in the community and spread it, but it's highly unlikely. Even if there were 10x that, untested - 250 potential spreaders - there are 794,000 ppl in this same area, so I don't feel scared to leave the house.
 
Wait ... I thought they were basing it on the number of cases being lower than expected, not that they had a high prevalence rate and therefore assuming immunity?
Yes, that's very true. But we have no idea how prevalent the virus might be. This, we have been told, is why we must be so cautious about opening things up again.
 
This is a really EXCELLENT article IMO - I hope everyone will read it.

“Political, social, scientific and literary commentary from Dr. Raywat Deonandan: scientist, author, rogue and knave. “

"I’ve upgraded the site to make it more of a commercially useful portal for all of my personal, artistic, and academic pursuits."

 
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