TRUMP - Some people think......... How do you feel?

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[QUOTE="BetteTheRed: "Evidence?"

Ah, I knew I could get you to bite! "Thou shalt not procure an abortion (Didache 4:2)." The final version of the Didache (full title: "The Teaching of the 12 Apostles") was completed c. 95 AD, well within the era of the NT church. But the abortion prohibition is found in the Two Ways section modelled after the Dead Sea Scrolls' Manual of Discipline. Scholars think this section predates the Fall of Jerusalem in 70 AD and may well be the oldest Christian writing in existence. In any case, the moral values of the Didache reflect those of the NT church. Also, the standard Judeo-Christian perspective on the soul embraces the doctrine of the preexistence of the soul. Would you like a blizzard of biblical and extracanonical intertestamental Jewish references to demonstrate this claim? So if the soul has full personhood from the moment of conception, then on that basis alone abortion is wrong.

So let's see--WC2 women believe it is OK to kill babies and call elderly women with disabilities a "white b-tch," but they reject claims by Jesus and the rest of the NT that prayer can bring supernatural healing? No wonder this site has endured precipitous decline!
 
Mystic said:
[QUOTE="BetteTheRed: "Evidence?"

So let's see--WC2 women believe it is OK to kill babies and call elderly women with disabilities a "white b-tch," but they reject claims by Jesus and the rest of the NT that prayer can bring supernatural healing? No wonder this site has endured precipitous decline!
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As one of the WC2 women here it seems that ,The first half of the above sentence is blatantly false and any professional research on your declaration is non existent and is based solely on your biased personal opinion. IMO.
 
Hey! we officially murder civilians, including babies, every day, to produce higher profits for oil companies. We are helping the U.S. to kill or starve to death the babies of almost all of Latin America.

Where did Jesus approve that? What hymn should we sing in celebration of all this? How often have the Christian churches challenged or even questioned the murderous behaviour of empires (British, Belgium, France, Hitler, U.S.?)
German churches were very quiet about the death camps. And Christian Britain was a bigger killer than Nazi Germany.
 
Waterfall said:
As one of the WC2 women here it seems that ,The first half of the above sentence is blatantly false and any professional research on your declaration is non existent and is based solely on your biased personal opinion. IMO.
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Duh, you need to watch the Minchin rant and then read the posts registering WC2's approval of his rhetoric. So are you saying you are opposed to late-term abortion?

Speaking of unctuous Dem leaders, , Nancy the Ripper says she prays for President Trump every day! That reminds me of the opponent of gay marriage and ordination at the UMC General Conference who said, "I love gay people; I love them enough to tell them what the Bible sways about homosexual acts. " Can't you just fee the love?
 
Tim Minchin is very funny, and people who don't get all excited about "bad words" find him quite insightful.

Interventionist prayer is just a flawed premise, a petition to an angry god created in the image of the pray-er.

I should think that Speaker Pelosi would include Donald Trump in her prayers. I endeavour to, although most of the time it sounds like "dear Lord, make him stop talking"...

Finally, forget the late-term abortion rabbit-hole. The choice of which we speak is a medically supervised abortion, 91% of which occur in the first 12 weeks, a mere 8% in the next 8 weeks, and only 1.3% after 20 weeks, and almost always because of fetal death or gross abnormalities like anencephaly (a fetus with no brain). It is, not to put too fine a point on it, torture to require a woman to continue to carry a dead fetus.
 
Not to mention it can be dangerous for a mother to carry a dead fetus to term

i get so frustrated by the abortion debate. And this idea of women with full term babies getting abortions. People just have no idea

however, I get it is a volatile issue in the USA. and of course there are tons of childless couples who would adopt a newborn if available.

but whoever said up thread that republican voters like Donald’s stupid tweets and stupid statements. I agree with that. Somehow people seem to think his stupidity makes him more authentic. Instead of just stupid. Politics has to be a rare job where saying I have no experience and no knowledge. Vote for me. Somehow that is a winning strategy

i expect he will get re-elected. He is very popular and republicans will never vote for a radical left candidate. Yet democrats seem reluctant to choose and middle candidate. Puzzling

the mistake was four years ago when the Republican Party was ineffective at shutting him down and choosing a different candidate to challenge Hillary. They might still have gotten a republican president but at least it might not have been someone determined to undermine the world
 
BetteTheRed said:
Evidence? Funny thing is that the SBC was very supportive of Roe vs Wade in the 70s. The church has been all over the map on this one, and for most of that "all over the map" time, men have been in charge of most religious institutions. Doesn't give the anti-choice position much credibility in my view.

The anti-choice opinion has no scriptural back up, either, in either the Hebrew or Christian scriptures. And Judaism hasn't got a problem with abortion. So, pretty thin ice.
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Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. and the Civil Rights of the Unborn

“The Negro cannot win if he is willing to sacrifice the futures of his children for immediate personal comfort and safety. Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.” Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. 1929-1968

“I say today that we as Christians must press on, in the conviction that we are "a colony of heaven," called to obey God rather than man. Small in number, we must remain big in commitment. We must be too God intoxicated to be "astronomically intimidated." By our effort and example may God use us, as imperfect vessels that we are, to bring an end to such ancient evils as infanticide, abortion, racism and oppression.”

Dr. Alveda C. King reflections on Letter from a Birmingham Jail

In 1939, Margaret Sanger, founder of Planned Parenthood outlined her plan to eliminate the Black community: “The most successful, educational appeal to the Negro is through a religious appeal. We do not want word to go out that we want to exterminate the Negro population, and the minister is the man who can straighten out that idea if it ever occurs to any of their rebellious members.”

Dr. King was among a select group of Negro leaders, hand picked to promote a seemingly beneficial plan to promote healthy family planning. It was a plan of wolf in sheep’s clothing, and Trojan Horse proportions. Dr. King, a man of love, peace, non-violence and strong Christian faith would be assassinated before the truth of the Planned Parenthood map for genocide would be made public after the passage of Roe VS Wade. The abortion agenda is in direct conflict with the teachings of Dr. King.

In 1966, Martin Luther King, Jr., a non-violent supporter of natural family planning, was offered the Planned Parenthood Margaret Sanger Award. In the acceptance speech, delivered by Mrs. Coretta Scott King, because Dr. King didn’t attend the ceremony, Mrs. King points to the benefits of family planning among Negro families and the “kinship” between the civil rights movement and Margaret Sanger’s early efforts. This speech did not include the word abortion. There is much speculation regarding who the real author of the speech was. During her lifetime, Mrs. King, unlike her husband, supported abortion and a more liberal view on marriage and human sexuality. "

As Dr. King’s niece, I too once accepted the lies of Planned Parenthood until the truth of the violence of abortion was revealed to me. If Planned Parenthood had announced that over 50 million babies would be aborted in the onslaught of their agenda, I would never have aborted a child. Dr. King would never have agreed with the violent violation of the civil rights of the millions of aborted babies, and Planned Parenthood’s subsequent blitz of women’s health problems related to chemical and artificial birth control methods. This conclusion leads me to remind my readers that I too have a dream, it’s in my genes. How can the dream survive if we murder the children?

Martin Luther King, Jr. and Planned Parenthood (pdf)
[Part 1] and [Part 2]


Dr. Alveda C. King, pastoral associate with Priests for Life, is a mother, grandmother, ordained minister, author and artistic producer.
 
Lastpointe said:
Not to mention it can be dangerous for a mother to carry a dead fetus to term

i get so frustrated by the abortion debate. And this idea of women with full term babies getting abortions. People just have no idea

however, I get it is a volatile issue in the USA. and of course there are tons of childless couples who would adopt a newborn if available.

but whoever said up thread that republican voters like Donald’s stupid tweets and stupid statements. I agree with that. Somehow people seem to think his stupidity makes him more authentic. Instead of just stupid. Politics has to be a rare job where saying I have no experience and no knowledge. Vote for me. Somehow that is a winning strategy

i expect he will get re-elected. He is very popular and republicans will never vote for a radical left candidate. Yet democrats seem reluctant to choose and middle candidate. Puzzling

the mistake was four years ago when the Republican Party was ineffective at shutting him down and choosing a different candidate to challenge Hillary. They might still have gotten a republican president but at least it might not have been someone determined to undermine the world
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They won't choose a wonky candidate like Klobichar., hopefully. She cannot win in the ring with The Donald. He would crush her. Neither can Pete. Not enough bold policy rhetoric - they talk about themselves and their backgrounds - instead of policies like Bernie does - which puts them exactly where Trump wants them, in the line of his smears. Not to mention - Pete is clearly a robot. He's also not well liked by black voters due to his mayoral record. There is no way those two can beat Trump. They are not interesting enough. And neither is Warren - she is just not as well liked on the left as Bernie is. Older voters are not getting it. The Dems need Bernie at this juncture.

And Bloomberg. Forget it. He could beat Trump, with his money, but nobody would be better of for it except him and the Republicans. He's possibly worse than Trump.
He's just planting himself in the race, using his boatloads of money.

The Dems need to coalesce around Bernie now before it's too late. He has the most integrity of any candidate and he's not going to unilaterally turn the US into Venezuela. That kind of talk is just stupid.

It's not puzzling. Young people are tired of unfettered capitalism robbing their futures blind. It makes absolute sense why Bernie is popular.
 
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GeoFee said:
Madeleine Albright replied, “I think this is a very hard choice, but the price — we think the price is worth it.””
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"We live in an image society. Speeches are not what anybody cares about; what they care about is the picture". Madeleine Albright

Fathers gunned to death, mothers searching for water & children starving, nothing but skin & bones. No, this is not a nightmare, not a book or a movie. This is reality, this is the here & now, this is life in Yemen. Please watch this short clip about this crisis with the attention it deserves.
 
BetteTheRed said:
Finally, forget the late-term abortion rabbit-hole. The choice of which we speak is a medically supervised abortion, 91% of which occur in the first 12 weeks, a mere 8% in the next 8 weeks, and only 1.3% after 20 weeks, and almost always because of fetal death or gross abnormalities like anencephaly (a fetus with no brain). It is, not to put too fine a point on it, torture to require a woman to continue to carry a dead fetus.
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So the easy answer is ... Decriminalize it once and for all ... it should never have been a 'political platform' in the first place. It should be a matter of the woman (hopefully I have not offended anyone by using the gender bias woman) and a competent and willing 'abortionist' to come to the agreement and each bear the weight of their own conscience. That is pro-choice ... it must be decriminalized and become a medical procedure between voluntarilly consenting parties. There should be no debate in the Political Arena ... it is a medical choice.
 
Absolutely. Which is exactly what Canada has done. As usual, when it comes to social morals, the U.S. seems often to be a decade or two behind the rest of the developed world. Bit slow, our neighbours.
 
Ritafee said:
So the easy answer is ... Decriminalize it once and for all ... it should never have been a 'political platform' in the first place. It should be a matter of the woman (hopefully I have not offended anyone by using the gender bias woman) and a competent and willing 'abortionist' to come to the agreement and each bear the weight of their own conscience. That is pro-choice ... it must be decriminalized and become a medical procedure between voluntarilly consenting parties. There should be no debate in the Political Arena ... it is a medical choice.
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As a Christian, or a follower of Jesus, should we consider what Jesus would say? Would he say abort the unborn IYO? Would he consider it a medical choice?
 
Lastpointe said:
but whoever said up thread that republican voters like Donald’s stupid tweets and stupid statements. I agree with that. Somehow people seem to think his stupidity makes him more authentic.
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I think it makes him more like themselves, which speaks for the poor education and communication skills of his voters. But his voters must be the kind of people who think a President is best when he is no better than themselves. ( which might be the same category as people who do not want their children to become more educated than themselves).
 
Mrs.Anteater said:
I think it makes him more like themselves, which speaks for the poor education and communication skills of his voters. But his voters must be the kind of people who think a President is best when he is no better than themselves. ( which might be the same category as people who do not want their children to become more educated than themselves).
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Oh I just think they want the "show" to continue....it's like watching the Kardashians.....what will happen next.
 
BetteTheRed said:
Absolutely. Which is exactly what Canada has done. As usual, when it comes to social morals, the U.S. seems often to be a decade or two behind the rest of the developed world. Bit slow, our neighbours.
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So the abortion issue no longer talked about in Political Campaigns in Canada?
 
Kimmio; "WC's women" have a range of opinions. How misogynistic."

Yeah? Then where is even one dissenting female voice protesting Minchin's sexist reference to an elderly woman with a disability as a "white b-tch?" btw, when I was a Theology professor, I started a very popular Women and Religion course that analyzed the history of misogyny in the Judeo-Christian tradition. I'll bet you aren't even familiar for the case that a woman started the Roman Catholic church!

Bette: "Tim Minchin is very funny, and people who don't get all excited about "bad words" find him quite insightful."

I know what you mean. "N-bombs" used to sprinkle the rants of southern comedians. I guess UCCans don't think we should get in a snit about that either? Actually, Minchin the stammerer is neither funny nor insightful. But then, when a book on femininst humor came out, an English professor friend commented, giggling that "feminist humor" is an oxymoron. That's one reason why I suggested a new "Humor and Memorable Quotes" section for this site.

Bette: "Interventionist prayer is just a flawed premise, a petition to an angry god created in the image of the pray-er."

It's also an oft repeated teaching of Jesus and the rest of the NT. But then UCCan progressives are close to biblically illiterate. I think I'll start a new thread to demonstrate that and illustrate the tragic consequences of dumbing down perceptions of the power of God in action.

Bette: "I should think that Speaker Pelosi would include Donald Trump in her prayers. I endeavour to, although most of the time it sounds like "dear Lord, make him stop talking"...

LOL, you are oblivious to the fact that you just contradicted yourself! If God answered your prayers and made Trump stop talking, then He would be an interventionist God after all!
 
Mystic, I don't think that you 'get' English or Oz humour. They're somewhat similar, and very different to American humour. "Drown the bitch" is a perfectly 'normal' English response to a text with a pic of a weak cuppa tea. It's just the way they talk, when you can understand them at all. These people are perfectly respectful people; they just use language in a very different way to you.
 
Waterfall said:
As a Christian, or a follower of Jesus, should we consider what Jesus would say? Would he say abort the unborn IYO? Would he consider it a medical choice?
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I am not a Christian ... but 'Christ In Me' is a phrase I can wrap my head around.
It was for freedom that Christ set us free?
Let your conscience be your guide?
You can destroy the body but not the soul?
Pro-choice is a Jesus Philosophy as far as I can tell ... not pro-legalization.
With freedom of choice comes responsibility to consequences.
Being human ... Jesus made choices ... I for one think he chose abstinence as his method for birth control. Should followers of Jesus not do the same?
Jesus supposedly said a lot of things that people did not understand to well ... first and foremost the message I 'hear' is your choice your consequences. The state is not the arbiter one way or another.
 
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