What Do You Know About Islam?
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Mendalla
Happy headbanging ape!!
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And, it could be argued, that is all we need to know. Rather like a "Christian" is "one who follows Christ". All else is details. Too bad there's so many details.
Hermann
Well-Known Member
Yes, too bad! What's worse, the details differ from denomination to denomination, and the devil is, quite literally, in the details. And some denominations battle each other to the blood about the details. Yesterday, for instance, Muslims celebrated the birth of the Prophet Mohammed, except for the Wahabists, who don't believe in idolizing the Prophet. To them, celebrating his birthday amounts to idolization. 
WWJT? (what was Jesus thinking?)
I think we can learn from other faiths Jae. Why does it bother you that they were praying?
This kind of thinking is what divides us, rather than unites us. I was reading about caliph Umar who ruled Jerusalem in 634-644 AD. He granted freedom of religion to everyone and ensured safety for all.
Saladan is another important historical Islamic figure that also held Christians admiration at the time.
This kind of thinking is what divides us, rather than unites us. I was reading about caliph Umar who ruled Jerusalem in 634-644 AD. He granted freedom of religion to everyone and ensured safety for all.
Saladan is another important historical Islamic figure that also held Christians admiration at the time.
It doesn't bother me if they pray Waterfall. I believe in religious liberty. That being said - my desire was to attend a Christian seminary solely dedicated to Christian education.
Hermann
Well-Known Member
Muslims revere Jesus, peace be upon his name*, as a Prophet of God, similar to Mohammed, whose name be praised*, except that Mohammed is their latest and greatest prophet. There are more than forty passages in the Koran that praise Jesus as an "Apostle of God." Some of them are inscribed around the inside of the Dome of the Rock, in gold letters of Arabic.
*these are customarily added in the world Islam whenever the name of Jesus or Mohammed is mentioned.
I which we honoured their major prophet as much as they honour ours. If Judaism is the parent religion of both Christianity and Islam, then Christianity and Islam are siblings.
*these are customarily added in the world Islam whenever the name of Jesus or Mohammed is mentioned.
I which we honoured their major prophet as much as they honour ours. If Judaism is the parent religion of both Christianity and Islam, then Christianity and Islam are siblings.
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Mendalla
Happy headbanging ape!!
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Here is likely why: http://www.emmanuel.utoronto.ca/Prospective/Academic_Programs/mpsmuslim.htm
Seems to me they are expanding their student base by creating a pastoral studies program for Muslims and that is not a bad thing. As Arm says, Islam is related historically to Christianity and Judaism so the partnership is not without basis. I accept that it is not a fit for you (in fact, I think Tyndale is a better fit for you than Emmanuel even without that), but that does not make it wrong.
I feel it's wrong for a college to be billing itself Asa Christian college when - in fact - they are also running a program for Muslims. I agree with your assessment in regard to Tyndale and I.
Mendalla
Happy headbanging ape!!
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Fair enough but if you read over Emmanuel's current site, they do emphasize a focus on dialogue and multiple traditions rather than their Christianity so they aren't exactly hiding it nor are they exactly promoting themselves as "Christian" at this point. Whether that's right or wrong isn't a debate for me to have since I am neither affiliated with the school nor a UCCan member.
BetteTheRed
Resident Heretic
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It's clear that Emmanuel College is quite in keeping with the UCCan ethos with regards to a more unitarian bent than other denoms.
Ichthys
Well-Known Member
To me, I have tried to change the way I see Islam. Not as that different religion over there but rather in terms of "What kind of denomination would it be if it was part of Christianity?" And I think that's a good way to look at it at least in my experience. It helped me realize things I haven't really noticed before.
For examples, the parallels between Islam and Christian Gnosticism are very apparent and fascinating in my opinion.
-They are outside of canon
-They believe in oneness rather than trinity
-Both believe that Jesus is rather a messenger than the Son of God.
-Both believe that salvation can be achieved by works through introspection, charitable giving and rejecting the "world", trying to reach the state one was immediately after creation of man.
-Both believe scripture has a deep, hidden meaning whose true message could only be understood through “secret wisdom”.
Of course Islam is diverse just as Christianity is. But I have seen especially beautiful parallels between Christian Gnosticism and Sufism and I don't seem to be alone on that.
http://www.academia.edu/428804/Sufism_and_Gnosticism_A_Comparison_-_looking_for_publishing
For examples, the parallels between Islam and Christian Gnosticism are very apparent and fascinating in my opinion.
-They are outside of canon
-They believe in oneness rather than trinity
-Both believe that Jesus is rather a messenger than the Son of God.
-Both believe that salvation can be achieved by works through introspection, charitable giving and rejecting the "world", trying to reach the state one was immediately after creation of man.
-Both believe scripture has a deep, hidden meaning whose true message could only be understood through “secret wisdom”.
Of course Islam is diverse just as Christianity is. But I have seen especially beautiful parallels between Christian Gnosticism and Sufism and I don't seem to be alone on that.
http://www.academia.edu/428804/Sufism_and_Gnosticism_A_Comparison_-_looking_for_publishing
Mendalla
Happy headbanging ape!!
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Interestingly, the UUA does have a relationship with Emmanuel and you can use a degree from there towards becoming a UU minister. VST, too, I believe. There are no UU seminaries in Canada and only two in the USA so we accept degrees from liberal Christian schools.
Islam as succumbing to god ... becomes a? mystery ... even Lawrence of Arabia gave up on trying to understand them ... he went home a died on a two-weal'd device that was unbalanced soulfully ... as he missed the free grits!
Then it is said in ancient times they were very advanced ... but oppressed by Westerners in the crusades ... and much wisdom retreated as burned ... supported by the Roman Nero who would rather burn alien books than learn ... an other god contrary to wise gods. Did you know the Roman-leaning church despised wisdom and thinkers ... especially in ephemeral form ... these were tied to the post and converted to physical light ... that became black and unseen and haunted the perpetrators as abstracts ... and this became a part of the overall mind ... bew ithchii'n?
There is a great debate over whether right or left mind ... that following portion? Thus hermeneutics ... it follows the source cause/cos ... as alternate to where we are ... on the wrong side of the devious thinker? This could allow you emotions to be blown away ... the restless wind ... a pada, oro lephart ... causing a stink in settled institutions! Could this be or is it just becoming as eternal justification for thinking all things over ... some people can justify anything ... just because IT is ... when as manifest (it may not be how it appears). If it is beyond ewe as sheepish ... would you have to thrash around in de bo-ish ... and chi tied heh'm to the kitchen chair and cut his hair ... and the beast appeared hue man for a bit (that'd be dark or UV in Greek) a radiance that can inscribe on the ephemeral heh-art? Thus the thought was conceived with baffling over the halle Lu Jah which's omega'd in another tongue ... things one should know to just begin unraveling the fabric ... then you're out from under it ... until recalled! It is like the America's auto-ma-ton ... an empty free emotion? You don't understand the term "ton" or tun ... it's the pickle we've got ourselves in by eliminating po' devils ... god made eM Tue ... as diverse things from heaven ... Dark Light ... well isn't that ... (perhaps ineffable)? Never never mention a Shadow of doubt when among those sure of everything ... and creation found a place for them too!
Then it is said in ancient times they were very advanced ... but oppressed by Westerners in the crusades ... and much wisdom retreated as burned ... supported by the Roman Nero who would rather burn alien books than learn ... an other god contrary to wise gods. Did you know the Roman-leaning church despised wisdom and thinkers ... especially in ephemeral form ... these were tied to the post and converted to physical light ... that became black and unseen and haunted the perpetrators as abstracts ... and this became a part of the overall mind ... bew ithchii'n?
There is a great debate over whether right or left mind ... that following portion? Thus hermeneutics ... it follows the source cause/cos ... as alternate to where we are ... on the wrong side of the devious thinker? This could allow you emotions to be blown away ... the restless wind ... a pada, oro lephart ... causing a stink in settled institutions! Could this be or is it just becoming as eternal justification for thinking all things over ... some people can justify anything ... just because IT is ... when as manifest (it may not be how it appears). If it is beyond ewe as sheepish ... would you have to thrash around in de bo-ish ... and chi tied heh'm to the kitchen chair and cut his hair ... and the beast appeared hue man for a bit (that'd be dark or UV in Greek) a radiance that can inscribe on the ephemeral heh-art? Thus the thought was conceived with baffling over the halle Lu Jah which's omega'd in another tongue ... things one should know to just begin unraveling the fabric ... then you're out from under it ... until recalled! It is like the America's auto-ma-ton ... an empty free emotion? You don't understand the term "ton" or tun ... it's the pickle we've got ourselves in by eliminating po' devils ... god made eM Tue ... as diverse things from heaven ... Dark Light ... well isn't that ... (perhaps ineffable)? Never never mention a Shadow of doubt when among those sure of everything ... and creation found a place for them too!
Hermann
Well-Known Member
Yeah, he went flying over a hill on one of these 500cc single cylinder Nortons--wicked machines that they were on narrow English country roads--and never came back to earth.
Hermann
Well-Known Member
Yes, Ichthys, Sufism is the crown of Islam. There is--alas--no equivalent in conventional Christianity! Sure, there is contemplative Christian monasticism. But the way overly dogmatic Christian church made their monastic mystics fit their mystical insights into the confines of Christology is almost pitiful. Within Islam, Sufism was permitted a far greater scope of expression, and Sufi poetry is some of the most beautiful spiritual poetry in the world. Similar, perhaps, to that of our medieval Beguines, like Hadejwich of Brabant or Mechtild of Magdeburg. The Beguines, however, were a lay order of women, only loosely affiliated with and frequently persecuted by the church. In Switzerland, "beguine" still is synonymous for "witch."
To me, the most brightly shining mystical order is Zen Buddhism. Although they have some teachings, Zen is all practice: simple living, contemplation, meditation, introspection--without any pressure to fit their mystical insights into a particular belief system. One simply immerses oneself in the pure experience of reality, and acts, spontaneously and dynamically, directly from the depth of that experience. Thus, one acts morally without becoming ensnared in the pitfalls of doctrinal absolutism. One acts morally simply because, at the depth of introspection, one experiences the unity and unitive love that galvanizes all the seemingly separate and disparate parts of the universe into one unified and holy whole, and one feels irresistibly compelled to act on IT. This, however, is only my personal interpretation of my experience, not the experience itself. The experience itself, that which Gnostics call "Gnosis," speaks for itself, far more powerfully than I possibly could in mere words. I urge everyone to try IT for themselves and find out!
These are the Rules Of War in Islam:
Before engaging in battle, the Prophet Muhammad (SAW) instructed his soldiers:
1. “Do not kill any child, any woman, or any elder or sick person.” (Sunan Abu Dawud)
2. “Do not practice treachery or mutilation.(Al-Muwatta)
3. Do not uproot or burn palms or cut down fruitful trees.(Al-Muwatta)
4. Do not slaughter a sheep or a cow or a camel, except for food.” (Al-Muwatta)
5. “If one fights his brother, [he must] avoid striking the face, for God created him in the image of Adam.” (Sahih Bukhari, Sahih Muslim)
6. “Do not kill the monks in monasteries, and do not kill those sitting in places of worship. (Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal)
7. “Do not destroy the villages and towns, do not spoil the cultivated fields and gardens, and do not slaughter the cattle.” (Sahih Bukhari; Sunan Abu Dawud)
8. “Do not wish for an encounter with the enemy; pray to God to grant you security; but when you [are forced to] encounter them, exercise patience.” (Sahih Muslim)
9. “No one may punish with fire except the Lord of Fire.” (Sunan Abu Dawud).
10. “Accustom yourselves to do good if people do good, and to not do wrong even if they commit evil.” (Al-Tirmidhi)
Before engaging in battle, the Prophet Muhammad (SAW) instructed his soldiers:
1. “Do not kill any child, any woman, or any elder or sick person.” (Sunan Abu Dawud)
2. “Do not practice treachery or mutilation.(Al-Muwatta)
3. Do not uproot or burn palms or cut down fruitful trees.(Al-Muwatta)
4. Do not slaughter a sheep or a cow or a camel, except for food.” (Al-Muwatta)
5. “If one fights his brother, [he must] avoid striking the face, for God created him in the image of Adam.” (Sahih Bukhari, Sahih Muslim)
6. “Do not kill the monks in monasteries, and do not kill those sitting in places of worship. (Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal)
7. “Do not destroy the villages and towns, do not spoil the cultivated fields and gardens, and do not slaughter the cattle.” (Sahih Bukhari; Sunan Abu Dawud)
8. “Do not wish for an encounter with the enemy; pray to God to grant you security; but when you [are forced to] encounter them, exercise patience.” (Sahih Muslim)
9. “No one may punish with fire except the Lord of Fire.” (Sunan Abu Dawud).
10. “Accustom yourselves to do good if people do good, and to not do wrong even if they commit evil.” (Al-Tirmidhi)
Consider that Sufism is the story telling tradition of Islam ... hated by many Islamists as ... the bible as "myth" in modern Christianity. Many Christians believe warriors to be heroes, or he-roe'd (opposing para-hoid, or paranoid as it is transmuted from Greek when h=n) when actually the philosophers were when looked at from the other perspective of the brain ... right minded ... while the left brain is motor driven for action and the other is devised for thought ... some mechanisms can't see it and the mind works in perfect circles without wobble. Some wobble is necessary in the weave to get the fabrication right!
The church patriarchs said common folk shouldn't know this or the wholly 's wouldn't work as well as blinders and what you don't know can give you wiles ... so much redaction it really messes up truth about history. Then who wrote history and who devised the best stories about corruption in high places?
Could this be because many adherents do not understand many of the stories religiously ... as right off in Genesis ... is does say knowledge is wrong .... but perhaps indicating that first one should be able to detect truth buried there.
It is a profound concept ... unless you happen to have a lighter mind ... and then it is all overhead and the myth is heaven ... while Ecclesiastes and Proverbs state that wisdom is a pain ... so people shouldn't know ... authorities are first in line it seems ... ask Mr. Duffy! That's no Michelangelo ... unless the error is in the way of how not to do it? negative emotions ... Positivism? That'd be a hot catty story to place on the rouff of any temple
Some of the myths give KISS to the complexities of life and leave those sticking to flat out tradition, with the opinion that there is nothing deeper to know ... and thus they miss the concept of the thinking deviate lye on what's coming as consequence. The Romans believed that thinkers were the devil ... and they had a language all their own ... it draws from god's dark side as expressed in dark icons on the pageboy ... sometimes known as a yeoman ... those that took care of the carrier ... a psychic thingy? happy john from ole WC thought I didn't know proper Late-in ... when I am a great procrastinator when gathering f(acts) into a stilled mined ... allows a stopped personality to see what's passin or even passe' ...!
Modern theoretical neurologists propose that the mind cannot retain anything without a story ... so everybody should have a story to fend of depressive Nous ess ... they can be the pits of brevity ... and appear as V's in Greek .. an inverse of Capital lambda ... for letting it fly lightly in a form that the rigid authorities won't be cognizant of. Jesus made a blooper when the Pharisees and Saggi Scies saw through the light ... and some of it was consumed ... thus the death of some of the light ... most is reflective tho'! Allows for Golden Pools of expectations that the water i'll get warmer for the next immersion ... they do come round ... in short don't get hooked by the superfluous floe ...
Each time your dipped into the world of mortals something is learned by mortals until recalled like the Prodigal Child parable in which the old man calls the returning child aside to see what he learned "out there". One minister said this is not in the syntax as he read it ... I told him it was induced ... a product of abstraction ... but then I not supposed to by freedom of speech and religion of the greater powers ... doesn't apply to lesser powers those of us right into IT! What's IT ... that's the hidden matter of the story ... like mind over matter when the story has some deep substance tuit!
The church patriarchs said common folk shouldn't know this or the wholly 's wouldn't work as well as blinders and what you don't know can give you wiles ... so much redaction it really messes up truth about history. Then who wrote history and who devised the best stories about corruption in high places?
Could this be because many adherents do not understand many of the stories religiously ... as right off in Genesis ... is does say knowledge is wrong .... but perhaps indicating that first one should be able to detect truth buried there.
It is a profound concept ... unless you happen to have a lighter mind ... and then it is all overhead and the myth is heaven ... while Ecclesiastes and Proverbs state that wisdom is a pain ... so people shouldn't know ... authorities are first in line it seems ... ask Mr. Duffy! That's no Michelangelo ... unless the error is in the way of how not to do it? negative emotions ... Positivism? That'd be a hot catty story to place on the rouff of any temple
Some of the myths give KISS to the complexities of life and leave those sticking to flat out tradition, with the opinion that there is nothing deeper to know ... and thus they miss the concept of the thinking deviate lye on what's coming as consequence. The Romans believed that thinkers were the devil ... and they had a language all their own ... it draws from god's dark side as expressed in dark icons on the pageboy ... sometimes known as a yeoman ... those that took care of the carrier ... a psychic thingy? happy john from ole WC thought I didn't know proper Late-in ... when I am a great procrastinator when gathering f(acts) into a stilled mined ... allows a stopped personality to see what's passin or even passe' ...!
Modern theoretical neurologists propose that the mind cannot retain anything without a story ... so everybody should have a story to fend of depressive Nous ess ... they can be the pits of brevity ... and appear as V's in Greek .. an inverse of Capital lambda ... for letting it fly lightly in a form that the rigid authorities won't be cognizant of. Jesus made a blooper when the Pharisees and Saggi Scies saw through the light ... and some of it was consumed ... thus the death of some of the light ... most is reflective tho'! Allows for Golden Pools of expectations that the water i'll get warmer for the next immersion ... they do come round ... in short don't get hooked by the superfluous floe ...
Each time your dipped into the world of mortals something is learned by mortals until recalled like the Prodigal Child parable in which the old man calls the returning child aside to see what he learned "out there". One minister said this is not in the syntax as he read it ... I told him it was induced ... a product of abstraction ... but then I not supposed to by freedom of speech and religion of the greater powers ... doesn't apply to lesser powers those of us right into IT! What's IT ... that's the hidden matter of the story ... like mind over matter when the story has some deep substance tuit!
blackbelt1961
Well-Known Member
Abraham submitted to God , he wasn't a Muslim