Jesus in the temple

Welcome to Wondercafe2!

A community where we discuss, share, and have some fun together. Join today and become a part of it!

Register Log in
Waterfall said:
The whip is only in Johns gospel....not in the other gospels, in them he only overturns tables and doesnt harm people
Click to expand...
John's gospel tends to tell fewer stories than the other gospels - but they are more detailed. The writer of John's gospel seems to be more intimate - in the sense that he wants us to feel that we are present to events.
 
PilgrimsProgress said:
John's gospel tends to tell fewer stories than the other gospels - but they are more detailed. The writer of John's gospel seems to be more intimate - in the sense that he wants us to feel that we are present to events.
Click to expand...
Yes and this gospel was not written by John and was written last. (90-110 AD).
 
GeoFee -----your quote ----Jesus is angry over the abuse of money.

I disagree that Jesus is angry over the abuse of money -----Jesus taught the right use for God's Money and warned people to be careful about allowing money to control them -------but He wasn't angry about the misuse of money --Judas was stealing money from Jesus and Jesus knew he was doing it and never said a word to Judas about it-- He knew money controlled Judas before He made him a Disciple ----He warned people against allowing money to become their god is all ----that was His message -----in my view ------
 
Ritafee said:
This 'story' remains powerful as an example of how we should reserve this type of action for rare occurrences.

If there is extreme injustice staying silent is not an option.

It was so exceptional for Jesus to display this kind of righteous anger that even the people in power had to take notice.

Jesus’ ministry involved relatively little whipping and table-turning.
Click to expand...
He was extremely quiet walking to the cross
Righteous anger seems to get religions in more trouble than not.
 
Ritafee said:
Politics are at the center of the story of Jesus ...
Click to expand...

I know it's popular to view the Jesus story through politics in progressive Christian circles. So much so, that I feel it can take us away from the main message - to love God and each other.

Politics involves division - not connection - which, to me, is at the heart of the Jesus message.

That said, I accept that the crucifixion was a political act.
 
Waterfall said:
The whip is only in Johns gospel....not in the other gospels, in them he only overturns tables and doesnt harm people.
Still Johns gospel is used to advocate for war by some.....starting with st. Augustine.
Click to expand...
It was still the thing that had him crucified, so it was probably of some consequence.
 
PilgrimsProgress said:
I know it's popular to view the Jesus story through politics in progressive Christian circles. So much so, that I feel it can take us away from the main message - to love God and each other.

Politics involves division - not connection - which, to me, is at the heart of the Jesus message.

That said, I accept that the crucifixion was a political act.
Click to expand...
To love one another we have to speak out against injustice to those perceived as “lesser than”in our world, and that sometimes is a bit risky. Going along with injustice is divisive, but the comfortable don’t notice it. They blame the messenger not the source. To speak out against bad laws is risk. The more tyrannical laws, the more risky. Progressives are seen as a bit risky to the status quo. But I think the democratic tools we have are a blessing if used well. They didn’t have that in Jesus’ day.
 
Last edited:
GeoFee said:
Some will read the gospels literally, as though they present historical fact. Others read metaphorically, as though they present word pictures (parables) permitting insight and encouragement.
Click to expand...
I think it was some of both, but more metaphor than literal history (which could not have been exact because it was written down much later)...and even what might be literal history becomes a living metaphor for people who came into the world much later. Even the followers of Jesus like MLK’s lives become living metaphors against the backdrop of present reality.
 
unsafe said:
GeoFee -----your quote ----Jesus is angry over the abuse of money.

I disagree that Jesus is angry over the abuse of money -----Jesus taught the right use for God's Money and warned people to be careful about allowing money to control them -------but He wasn't angry about the misuse of money --Judas was stealing money from Jesus and Jesus knew he was doing it and never said a word to Judas about it-- He knew money controlled Judas before He made him a Disciple ----He warned people against allowing money to become their god is all ----that was His message -----in my view ------
Click to expand...
Allowing money to become their god is an abuse of money. It turns money from a tool of fair commerce to a weapon of abuse, and an idol and a greedy end in itself...and an affront to God.
 
Waterfall said:
The whip is only in Johns gospel....not in the other gospels, in them he only overturns tables and doesnt harm people.
Still Johns gospel is used to advocate for war by some.....starting with st. Augustine.
Click to expand...
Oh and to be fair some scholars believe that Jesus cleansed the temple twice....which explains why there is no whip in three gospel narratives.
 
Politics can involve connection...if it’s communitarian (socialist). Community organizing is all about connecting. And, every institution, has a tendency to become political. Every group, even. Even/ especially, church operations have their own internal politics.

It’s the individualism ideology inherent in neoliberal politics that’s divisive because at its core it’s about each to their own...about competition not cooperation.
 
Kimmio -----your quote -----Allowing money to become their god is an abuse of money.

I disagree with this -------Allowing money to become their god is making money their idol ------Our only true idol should be God ------who gives us the money we need to help ourselves and others ------

Your quote ----It turns money from a tool of fair commerce to a weapon of abuse, and an idol and a greedy end in itself...and an affront to God.


Again I disagree ----Money is not a weapon of abuse by itself -------it is the person who is tempted by Satan to allow the money to have power over them ------it is all about a terrible master of the money ------


Scripture teaches that all money is a gift from God ------- God allows Satan to influence the minds of people -----money for Satan is a great Hook and God allows people free will to choose who their Master will be --

The Corporate world is run by man ------there are 2 types of man ----unbelievers and True believers ----- God knows already who will allow money to rule their lives -----So for me it is not an offence to God for how unbelievers use Worldly money as He already knows the power of temptation money has over them ------

I think it may Grieve God when True Believers don't follow what they should be doing with His money as they are to follow God's directions on money -----

The Bible talks about ----2 types of Money ------Worldly money and what people use it for Luke 16:9

Money that God provides to His Children for His use not our use ----Deuteronomy 8:18


Ever read about the Hobby Lobby Stores ------a corporate giant -----run by a Born Again Christian -----David Green He says his business and money is God's ---just saying


https://www.forbes.com/sites/briansolomon/2012/09/18/david-green-the-biblical-billionaire-backing-the-evangelical-movement/#64f6136b5807
Meet David Green: Hobby Lobby's Biblical Billionaire
 
Kimmio Laughterlove said:
To love one another we have to speak out against injustice to those perceived as “lesser than”in our world, and that sometimes is a bit risky. Going along with injustice is divisive, but the comfortable don’t notice it. They blame the messenger not the source. To speak out against bad laws is risk. The more tyrannical laws, the more risky.
Click to expand...

There are times when speaking out to injustice does little but make the"speaker outer" feel righteous.... it can accomplish a change in the laws, but If real and lasting change is to occur you have to begin to understand why folks think the way they do.(Rightly or wrongly, in my experience most that espouse racist, homophobic views deep down feel that society sees them as "lesser than". Remember Hilary Clinton's "the deplorables"?)
 
PilgrimsProgress said:
There are times when speaking out to injustice does little but make the"speaker outer" feel righteous.... it can accomplish a change in the laws, but If real and lasting change is to occur you have to begin to understand why folks think the way they do.(Rightly or wrongly, in my experience most that espouse racist, homophobic views deep down feel that society sees them as "lesser than". Remember Hilary Clinton's "the deplorables"?)
Click to expand...
What do we need to understand about a handful of billionaires before we change laws that affect everybody else on the planet? That's really the crux of it, it seems to me. Without equality people break into tribalism and people can't "connect"... It's difficult to connect when half the world's just trying to survive dire poverty and tyranny, and almost everybody else is busy with their minds on their money and money on their minds in one way or another. Then those who used to take privelege for granted are finding minorities, whoever "invaded" their once solid privilege, to blame their problems on - scapegoats - because that's so easy to fall into and the powers that be would like us to not "look up" at the problem but would rather we look down on the "have nots". It's as if by design so they can have it all.

Eg. "I used to have a nice house and a nice car, and now I'm busting my ass with low pay that doesn't cover all the bills, and it's all xyz minority's fault for taking our jobs. I remember back in those days when men were men, we kept with our own kind, and a buck went further"... And that's all just to serve a few billionaires and war profiteers. That's what I think, anyway. Economic disparity and inequality is top down created and it divides people like invisible lightning rods.

But we can't get into every single individual's head before we change laws to level the playing field and make the world a little safer (ie. from extreme and threatening racism and misogyny and bigotry, or from the extreme and threatening effects of climate change) for everyone.
 
Last edited:
Kimmio Laughterlove said:
What do we need to understand about a handful of billionaires before we change laws that affect everybody else on the planet? That's really the crux of it, it seems to me. Without equality people break into tribalism and people can't "connect"... It's difficult to connect when half the world's just trying to survive dire poverty and tyranny, and almost everybody else is busy with their minds on their money and money on their minds in one way or another. Then those who used to take privelege for granted are finding minorities, whoever "invaded" their once solid privilege, to blame their problems on - scapegoats - because that's so easy to fall into and the powers that be would like us to not "look up" at the problem but would rather we look down on the "have nots". It's as if by design so they can have it all.

Eg. "I used to have a nice house and a nice car, and now I'm busting my ass with low pay that doesn't cover all the bills, and it's all xyz minority's fault for taking our jobs. I remember back in those days when men were men, we kept with our own kind, and a buck went further"... And that's all just to serve a few billionaires and war profiteers. That's what I think, anyway. Economic disparity and inequality is top down created and it divides people like invisible lightning rods.

But we can't get into every single individual's head before we change laws to level the playing field and make the world a little safer (ie. from extreme and threatening racism and misogyny and bigotry, or from the extreme and threatening effects of climate change) for everyone.
Click to expand...

Life is a hard battle conflict or other kind of competition ... and some would like absolute right to compete in any way they can for $$$'s!

Consider this, even if these big corporate concerns own media stocks ... they'd like to cut more of it for self:


Its enough to make some seek relief and thus subway suicides are now being examined as real! Is that pathologically partisan (underground)?

Some folk tell me they're even dead to my communications ... the f(unction) of ignore ... life is proportion of naivete!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top