The women divide the plunder ?

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

The world should operate in the way that God originally set it to operate. It is because of the fall of humanity that there exists strife between the sexes.

It is because in ancient times - early humans - there was a move away from hunter/ gatherer way of life - most of which was foraging not hunting - and the division of labour was not so much along gendered lines/split into gendered roles. The move towards agrarian society created gendered division of labour which then evolved into the building of civilizations structured and controlled by men. Whereas, women were religated by force to domestic unpaid labour and child-rearing - bought and sold for sex and domestic duties - and kept out of the decisions and institutions that had become the dominion of men. That continues to this day unless women can compete their way into those male structured and dominated institutions. Even then, inequality and abuse of women persists in those systems, and in homes.

 

[Jaebius]

It is because in ancient times there was a move away from hunter/ gatherer way of life - most of which was foraging not hunting - and the division of labour was not so much along gendered lines/split into gendered roles. The move towards agrarian society created gendered division of labour which then evolved into the building of civilizations structured and controlled by men. Whereas, women were religated by force to domestic unpaid labour and child-rearing - bought and sold for sex and domestic duties - and kept out of the decisions and institutions that had become the dominion of men. That continues to this day unless women can compete their way into those male structured and dominated institutions.

We started out as farmers. "in sweat of thy cheer, thou shalt eat thy bread, till thou turn again into the earth of which thou art taken; for thou art dust, and thou shalt turn again into dust." - Genesis 3:19.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

We started out as farmers. "in sweat of thy cheer, thou shalt eat thy bread, till thou turn again into the earth of which thou art taken; for thou art dust, and thou shalt turn again into dust." - Genesis 3:19.

No we actually didn't. We started as hunter gatherers - that bread was made from grains gathered doesn't change that fact. It was the move to agrarian societies that created a division of labour where women were a separate "second class" of human beings.

 

[Mendalla]

No we actually didn't. We started as hunter gatherers - that bread was made from grains gathered doesn't change that fact. It was the move to agrarian societies that created a division of labour where women were a separate "second class" of human beings.

He's quoting Genesis. We all know that trumps things like archaeology and anthropology, don't we?

 

[Jaebius]

He's quoting Genesis. We all know that trumps things like archaeology and anthropology, don't we?

Good study is always in agreement with Scripture. Anything that contrasts with Scripture is to be discarded.

 

[Mendalla]

Good study is always in agreement with Scripture. Anything that contrasts with Scripture is to be discarded.

Or the Scripture is to be discarded.

 

[Jaebius]

Or the Scripture is to be discarded.

You can, of course, try to do that "but the word of the Lord dwelleth into without end. Soothly this is the word, that is evangelized to you." - 1 Peter 1:25 (WYC).

 

[Mendalla]

I largely have done it, Jae, at least as any kind of history or science text. And as a sole source. Don't get me wrong, there's some wonderful stuff in there, but it's just one more collection of texts in the end.

 

[Jaebius]

I largely have done it, Jae, at least as any kind of history or science text. And as a sole source. Don't get me wrong, there's some wonderful stuff in there, but it's just one more collection of texts in the end.

Acknowledged that that's your opinion Mendalla.

 

[Luce NDs]

@ Mendalla .... you see there are blind opinions out there caused by a great void in the gift of cognizance ... some great fathers of the church discarded response ... and pushed free will and claimed there was no consequence ... and thus imagination became abstract like a hole ... or even representative of Kubler-Ross if you cannot accept the system has swings and dips ...

Cognizance is a miracle ... it spreads independent of institutional fixation and religious stones ... eddy faces ... there's more to it than Mort will accept ... (Mort is a Niche name for the dark lady ... yet unseen)!

 

[Jaebius]

@ Mendalla .... you see there are blind opinions out there caused by a great void in the gift of cognizance ... some great fathers of the church discarded response ... and pushed free will and claimed there was no consequence ... and thus imagination became abstract like a hole ... or even representative of Kubler-Ross if you cannot accept the system has swings and dips ...

Cognizance is a miracle ... it spreads independent of institutional fixation and religious stones ... eddy faces ... there's more to it than Mort will accept ... (Mort is a Niche name for the dark lady ... yet unseen)!

No need for the insults Luce. If you don't like my posts, don't feel you have to read them.

 

[Luce NDs]

No need for the insults Luce. If you don't like my posts, don't feel you have to read them.

I wasn't addressing you Jae ... I was talking to Mendalla about incidentals ... don't accept everything is you'RN ... and then nurse it to bust!

Deep space carries a lot of dust to encounter as incidental ... some 100MM tons per day fall on us according to some observations about stardust ... then some live lives pure of intelligent science (science being observation in a word)!

Others disclaim observation and support blindness ... Beau Gest?

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

Speaking of Genesis - I can't find it now, but a feminist text I came across mentions, in its analysis of the origins of patriarchy, the irony that in the biblical literature/ symbolism - God punishes Adam and Eve by condemning them to agrarian life whereby Eve (women) is at the behest of her husband, under his control - where the gender lines are drawn. (And Eve takes the blame throughout history, when it really was a co-conspiracy - Adam just let her take all the blame.)

That got me thinking - allegorically speaking- that if the original mistake (sin) was the move away from egalitarianism - then redemption would represent a move back towards it. In reality.

Also, from a historical perspective - just because the lines were drawn the way they were, as societies evolved, doesn't mean that was the only way societies could've evolved. What evolved was a patriarchal model. But that model can be abolished, through transformative action (real commitment to policies and practices that transform) and replaced with an egalitarian one. Calling out patriarchy is naming the original mistake.

 

[Northwind]

That got me thinking - allegorically speaking- that if the original mistake (sin) was the move away from egalitarianism - then redemption would represent a move back towards it. In reality.

I like this thought. I've been skimming this thread with some interest. I have lots of thoughts.

I'm thinking this was part of Jesus' message, that all life has value and none is better than the other. After all, he had female disciples and he treated women as equals. Unfortunately the church and religious groups have used scripture as weapons to keep women and others "in their place." Any attempts to use scripture to tell women (or anyone else) that they are second class and subservient to men is abuse. That's not okay.

 

[Northwind]

I think the opposite of prophecy would be criticize. We are all fluent in criticizing. It does not take any anointing to criticize.

Thanks for this. Food for thought. It really simplifies the idea of prophecy nicely

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

Yet, I see a lot of criticizing from people who claim to be prophets. I don't think I cannot be critical - but I am not calling myself a prophet.

(Rita - you also criticize individual people and institutions, you name names of politicians for condemnation. You do it a lot, in fact - and often "shouting" in bold all caps.)

Naming a problem involves some degree of criticism - towards the systemic problem as well as individuals who insist on perpetuating it.

 

[Northwind]

How does one reconcile being anti-war and appeal to peace with excusing war profiteering - the buying and selling and manufacturing of the machinery for war. As necessary to 'gainful' employment?

I sometimes despair that we will ever end war and warlike tendencies. I have become more pacifist over the years as I've seen the effects of conflict on the ground in people's daily lives. Family violence, workplace strife, etc.

Most of us struggle with handling conflict in our daily lives. How can we expect the world to do better?

 

[Northwind]

Naming a problem involves some degree of criticism - towards the systemic problem as well as individuals who insist on perpetuating it.

So when is it critical thought and challenging old ways, and when is it the criticism @Ritafee mentions? How do we upset the tables in the temple constructively?

 

[GeoFee]

No we actually didn't. We started as hunter gatherers - that bread was made from grains gathered doesn't change that fact. It was the move to agrarian societies that created a division of labour where women were a separate "second class" of human beings.

This shift from hunter gatherer to agrarian is noticed in the story of Cain and Abel. We also see it in the history of colonization, where indigenous peoples’ hunter gather societies were displaced (violently) by agrarian society.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

So when is it critical thought and challenging old ways, and when is it the criticism @Ritafee mentions? How do we upset the tables in the temple constructively?

I think we have to be assertive in naming the problem and not allowing it to go on. That would be criticism. I think challenging old ideas and critical thought, and the people who perpetuate it is criticism and there's nothing wrong with that. I can't think of any person who has been outspoken in the name of peace and social justice who has not been critical. Jesus was critical. Gandhi was critical. MLK was critical.