89 chapter project: Matthew

[blackbelt1961]

Jesus came to Preach the Good News ------and that is what the Disciples Preached and that is what we are to Preach ----Salvation is the only way to Heaven paradox3 -----Jesus said I AM THE WAY ------Receiving Jesus as Lord and Saviour is the Way -------you must be Born Again -----born from above ------The Holy Spirit witnesses to our Human Spirit -------you see thing different ---you read the Bible different ----you act different ------you are not the same as you were ----the worldly veil is lifted -------your Glasses are changed ------

There is a Catholic church in my area of where my office is, its been a few yrs now, the youth grp who gets together Wednesday evenings have been experiencing spiritual rebirth during band practice along with some spiritual gifts.


the best pastors to teach on spiritual rebirth are those who have experienced it themselves

 

[revjohn]

Being Born Again is not really part of our tradition in the United Church.

Not quite true.

"Born Again" is not language we tend to employ. We tended initially to lean towards the language of regeneration. For example:

Article IX. Of Regeneration. We believe in the necessity of regeneration, whereby we are made new creatures in Christ Jesus by the Spirit of God, who imparts spiritual life by the gracious and mysterious operation of His power, using as the ordinary means the truths of His word and the ordinances of divine appointment in ways agreeable to the nature of man.

And,

Article XII. Of Sanctification. We believe that those who are regenerated and justified grow in the likeness of Christ through fellowship with Him, the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, and obedience to the truth; that a holy life is the fruit and evidence of saving faith; and that the believer’s hope of continuance in such a life is in the preserving grace of God. And we believe that in this growth in grace Christians may attain that maturity and full assurance of faith whereby the love of God is made perfect in us.

[FONT=Open Sans, sans-serif]Regeneration language was later replaced by redemption language.

We believe that in the greatness of His love for man God has in Christ opened up a way of deliverance from the guilt and power of sin. We believe that Christ, by living our life without sin, by dying at the hands of sinful men with faith unshaken and unfaltering love, has done for man what man could not do for himself. On the Cross He bore the burden of sin, and He broke its power; and what He did there moves men to repentance, conveys forgiveness, undoes the estrangement, and binds them to Himself in a new loyalty. We believe that by His resurrection and exaltation Christ stands victorious over death and all evil, and that He fills those who commit themselves to Him with such grace and strength that in Him they, too, are conquerors. His redemption of man is at once an awful mystery and a glorious fact; it is the Lord’s doing and marvelous in our eyes. So we acknowledge the unmerited love and the mercy of our God in giving His only-begotten Son that we might not perish but have everlasting life.

And

VII. The Church We believe that the Church, the society of the redeemed, was brought into existence by God Himself through the work and risen power of Christ, Who in calling men into fellowship with Himself calls them by the same act into fellowship with one another in Him. We believe that the Church is the organ of Christ’s mind and redemptive will, the body of which He is the Head. Under Him the Church is called to the proclamation of the everlasting Gospel with its offer of salvation, to the worship of God, Creator and Redeemer, to the loving service of mankind, and to the care and nurture of the flock. We believe that all members of the Church are one in Him, and that the life of the Church in every age is continuous with that of the first apostolic company. The groups commonly known as “churches” are called to share in the life of the whole Church, of all ages and of all lands, entering freely into the full heritage of thought, worship, and discipline, and living together in mutual confidence. We believe that for the fulfillment of her mission in the world God has given to the Church the Ministry, the Scriptures and the Sacraments. So we acknowledge one holy, catholic, apostolic Church, the Body of Christ, the household and family of God.

And

IX. The Holy Scriptures We believe that the great moments of God’s revelation and communication of Himself to men are recorded and interpreted in the Scriptures of the Old and New Testament. We believe that, while God uttered His Word to man in many portions progressively, the whole is sufficient to declare His mind and will for our salvation. To Israel He made Himself known as a holy and righteous God and a Savior; the fullness of truth and grace came by Jesus Christ. The writings were collected and preserved by the Church. We believe that the theme of all Holy Scripture is the redemptive purpose and working of God, and that herein lies its unity. We believe that in Holy Scripture God claims the complete allegiance of our mind and heart; that the full persuasion of the truth and authority of the Word of God contained in the Scripture is the work of the Holy Spirit in our hearts; that, using Holy Scripture, the Spirit takes of the things of Christ and shows them unto us for our spiritual nourishment and growth in grace. So we acknowledge in Holy Scripture the true witness to God’s Word and the sure guide to Christian faith and conduct.

Later the denomination would be less direct and use language which points to both the regenerative and the redemptive.

We believe in God:
who has created and is creating,
who has come in Jesus, the Word made flesh,
to reconcile and make new,
who works in us and others
by the Spirit.

And

We also speak of God as
Creator, Redeemer, and Sustainer
God, Christ, and Spirit
Mother, Friend, and Comforter
Source of Life, Living Word, and Bond of Love,
and in other ways that speak faithfully of
the One on whom our hearts rely,
the fully shared life at the heart of the universe.

 

[Pontifex Geronimo 13]

I think it’s funny that people are only willing to give 2 minutes.

Important things take time. I wouldn’t want my appendix removed by a doctor who quickly watched a 2 minute YouTube to make sure he’s doing it right.

I have a 25 hour commentary on Matthew. I think about a 75 hour one on Romans.

If someone posts a sermon, I usually listen with my phone in my pocket as I go about my business. I have listened to hours of GeoFee’s sermons that are only about 15 minutes each and often listen twice.

 

[revjohn]

OH BOY ! ----So your saying the United Church does never Preach on Salvation and is not concerned with saving souls ---they are OK with allowing their church to go to a place of eternal spiritual torment ------WOW -----

Respectfully I believe that is more of what you choose to read into her comments than what she has said.

I address the language issue in a post above this one.

 

[Pavlos Maros]

She tends to read the God's Word version.

Well clearly it isn't gods word. Is it.

 

[Pavlos Maros]

Because Proverbs 29:18 means just that, in this instance a vision of a future event is not a physical vision of current events.
Example, “keep your eyes on the goal (future vision), don’t let the present hinder or stop you from achieving it “

Lol. Only if it is written in gobbledegook. Lol. Oh wait it is. You are funny.

 

[paradox3]

unsafe says
There is no evangelical or United or Catholic or wherever other Religion --involved in Salvation -------it is a individual Heart issue ----you receive Jesus into your heart by Saving Faith that is believing He is the Son Of God ---that He died and was Resurrected and His shed Blood cleansed you of all sin forever -----God Provided Salvation freely to us by His Saving Grace and we are to accept it by and through our Saving Faith -----We don't deserve His Grace -----He gives us Grace because He Loves Us -------


Jesus came to Preach the Good News ------and that is what the Disciples Preached and that is what we are to Preach ----Salvation is the only way to Heaven paradox3 -----Jesus said I AM THE WAY ------Receiving Jesus as Lord and Saviour is the Way -------you must be Born Again -----born from above ------The Holy Spirit witnesses to our Human Spirit -------you see thing different ---you read the Bible different ----you act different ------you are not the same as you were ----the worldly veil is lifted -------your Glasses are changed ------

So is this a one time event, unsafe? This is what I am trying to understand here.

We accept Jesus into our hearts on one occasion and then we are changed forevermore? The veil is lifted and our glasses are changed for the the rest of our lives?

You say we accept salvation and grace through our faith. The faith part of the equation must be ongoing, no?

What happens to an individual who loses his or her faith? Or finds it substantively changed?

 

[paradox3]

@revjohn

The language of reconciling and making new is very familiar to me.

But I am not sure if we are discussing a language issue here or something more.

 

[blackbelt1961]

Lol. Only if it is written in gobbledegook. Lol. Oh wait it is. You are funny.

maybe, just maybe because it was written approx 700BC so language was of that time ,

but hey im sure you knew that cuz you know everything, gobbledegook in the time of Solomon was standard

you are a winner

 

[paradox3]

Important things take time. I wouldn’t want my appendix removed by a doctor who quickly watched a 2 minute YouTube to make sure he’s doing it right.

This part of your post made me laugh. But you are right, important things do take time.

 

[unsafe]

revjohn ------I saw what you posted above and appreciate your stepping in here --------thanks for the clarification ----

 

[paradox3]

being born again, being born from above, regenerated heart ect, whatever you wish to name it, is not a denominational thing, a church regardless of the denomination cannot give you spiritual newness it can only speak and teach on the subject, the only person that can give spiritual rebirth is God the Creator , and it can happen anywhere not just in a church setting.

Yes, I get this and I agree with you.

But don't you think our denominations and traditions give us a framework for understanding all spiritual matters?

 

[blackbelt1961]

This part of your post made me laugh. But you are right, important things do take time.

and here i answered yes on my driver's license in case of ascendential death , maybe i should investigate on whos doing the removal

 

[paradox3]

and here i answered yes on my driver's license in case of ascendential death , maybe i should investigate on whos doing the removal

Ascendential death? Is this a Freudian slip?

 

[blackbelt1961]

Yes, I get this and I agree with you.

But don't you think our denominations and traditions give us a framework for understanding all spiritual matters?

as RevJohn said, the UCC church believes it, teaches it, so RevJohn, and I am sure he has in his lifetime of ministry, preached on the matter, he can offer a framework for understanding, but the fullness of understanding will never come till one actually experiences the rebirth.

 

[blackbelt1961]

Ascendential death? Is this a Freudian slip?

it is

 

[paradox3]

as RevJohn said, the UCC church believes it, teaches it, so RevJohn, and I am sure he has in his lifetime of ministry, preached on the matter, he can offer a framework for understanding, but the fullness of understanding will never come till one actually experiences the rebirth.

Would you say this rebirth is a singular, one time event? Do you have a personal narrative of your own rebirth?

 

[unsafe]

paradox3 -----your quote ------We accept Jesus into our hearts on one occasion and then we are changed forevermore? The veil is lifted and our glasses are changed for the the rest of our lives?

unsafe says -----
You can't loose your Salvation ---your heaven bound ------ but you can backslide in your walk unless you keep in the word and gain the knowledge and wisdom needed by and through the Holy Spirit to continue to grow in your Spiritual maturity ------

You need to understand that your Spirit is renewed ---but our Mind has to be trained to think Like Christ ---this is our job ---God Did His Job ------we have to keep in the word to change our old way of worldly thinking ---------The Scriptures say Be Transformed by the renewing of your mind -----Satan still has access to our Thinking -----and his job is to keep your mind from the word so you don't grow in your Faith walk -----Satan is after the true Christ-ians Faith ------and he will do everything he can to keep from reading and knowing the word of God ------that is called the Spiritual Battle and it happens in your mind -----that is how you can backslide ------


This is the Greek word for Backslide

Strong's Hebrew: 5472. סוּג (sug) -- to move away, backslide
5472. sug ►
Strong's Concordance
sug: to move away, backslide
Original Word: סוּג
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: sug
Phonetic Spelling: (soog)
Definition:
turned aside (1), turned back (3), turning away (1). to move away, backslide

A primitive root; properly, to flinch, i.e. (by implication) to go back, literally (to retreat) or figuratively (to apostatize) -- backslider, drive, go back, turn (away, back).

 

[paradox3]

@unsafe Your comments about Spiritual Battle bring to mind the passage from Ephesians about putting on the whole armor of God.

Again, may I ask is this renewal of the Spirit an event that happens on a singular occasion? Do you have a personal narrative about your experience with renewal?

 

[blackbelt1961]

Would you say this rebirth is a singular, one time event? Do you have a personal narrative of your own rebirth?

singular yes, once the Spirit is Given its given, no givebacks

do I have a personal experience, I do