89 chapter project: Matthew

[Mendalla]

The canon says Jesus preached this sermon. I believe Jesus preached this sermon. You're free to believe as you may.

The canon is a religious source, not an historical one, and I think it needs to be approached somewhat skeptically when one is trying to discern historical or biographical facts as opposed to spiritual wisdom or doctrine. And when trying to look at Jesus as an historical figure, you need not confine yourself to canon, either, IMHO. The non-canonical texts still have validity as historical sources even if the Church chose not to accept them as doctrinal ones.

 

[Pavlos Maros]

than a golden one

Agreed that this is a simple idea but is it easy to put into practice?

Are you saying you find Christians to be more guilty of "judging" than others you know?

No they are no more guilty than anybody else however everybody else hasn't got the statement "Do not judge others, lest you be judged." as part of their doctrine.

Let's look at the whole section rather than my very brief summary.

Matthew 7:7-12 New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)
Ask, Search, Knock
7 “Ask, and it will be given you; search, and you will find; knock, and the door will be opened for you. 8 For everyone who asks receives, and everyone who searches finds, and for everyone who knocks, the door will be opened. 9 Is there anyone among you who, if your child asks for bread, will give a stone? 10 Or if the child asks for a fish, will give a snake? 11 If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good things to those who ask him!

Still doesn't change the fact that it is a lie.

The Golden Rule

I seriously would not call it that. It more like a stone rule. The golden rule (The ethics of reciprocity) is a much nice statment.

12 “In everything do to others as you would have them do to you; for this is the law and the prophets.

This suggest if your kinky or you have strange preferences. You should do them to others.
Whereas the golden rule coined 500 years before jesus says "No not do to other" Emphasis on the "do not".
Not the same, though similar. Hence why the jesus one is more a stone rule, then a golden one..

 

[Pavlos Maros]

Hi,
Not for those of us who have experienced validation of the premise.

But you haven't, you only think you have.

A detective follows clues leading to the discovery of evidence. This based on intuition as much as reason.

And paramount to his investication the evidence must be there. You have no evidence.
But that is not why I say it's a lie.
It's a lie because. If you ask, you don't recieve and if you seek, you cannot find. Becuase there is no evidence to find.
And remember it doesn't specify what you should ask for does it.

This lie is compounded in Matt 21.

 

[GeoFee]

Hi,

But you haven't, you only think you have.

Guessing you know me better than I know me? How?

George

 

[Luce NDs]

Reflection: Matthew 8: 1 - 34

The gospel writer continues in his persuasive style. Not only is Jesus a great moral teacher (and perhaps a pacifist) he is a miraculous healer. Once again, this is a fulfillment of prophecy.

It is interesting that the demons themselves begged for release rather than the demon-possessed men. Perhaps this is suggesting we hold on to our "demons" unnecessarily at times. The image of the swine rushing down into the sea is curious.

This chapter reminds me of a time when my youngest daughter was about 9. She came home from school for lunch and announced, "I don't believe Jesus did any of that magic stuff." She went on to say "I don't believe in angels either. Do you?"

Light cast broadly and commonly in vernacular form ... lacking oligarch al's lime? Slippery garcons ...

 

[Luce NDs]

The canon says Jesus preached this sermon. I believe Jesus preached this sermon. You're free to believe as you may.

Some people believe any propaganda when recycled obstinately ... like stoning children ... pummeled repetition?

 

[Pavlos Maros]

Hi,
Guessing you know me better than I know me? How?

I did give you a reason in the second part of my reply which you avoided.
I don't have to know you. I just have to know what is reasonable and what isn't. That's all any one needs. You can scream your imaginings are real from the roof tops. It wont make an iota difference without evidence.

 

[Ritafee]

I did give you a reason in the second part of my reply which you avoided.
I don't have to know you. I just have to know what is reasonable and what isn't. That's all any one needs. You can scream your imaginings are real from the roof tops. It wont make an iota difference without evidence.

But are you sure that it is really contrary to your reason?
What you are probably trying to say is that it is contrary to your opinion.

 

[GeoFee]

Hey Pavlos,

Rather than shift the focus of this thread, could we take this conversation to another thread?

 

[Ritafee]

Hey Pavlos,

Rather than shift the focus of this thread, could we take this conversation to another thread?

As in ... "Let us reason together"?

 

[Pavlos Maros]

I don't have to know you. I just have to know what is reasonable and what isn't. That's all any one needs. You can scream your imaginings are real from the roof tops. It wont make an iota difference without evidence.

But are you sure that it is really contrary to your reason?

Not only mine any person who has the ability to reason.
I.E. Use the power of their mind to think, understand, and form judgements logically.
If reason is not used all and sundry can be believed without evidence.
Without verification or testability it is and remains contrary to reason.

What you are probably trying to say is that it is contrary to your opinion.

No! It has nothing to do with me. It has all to do with everybody who has the ability to reason.
Without evidence. it is contrary to reason.

"That which is asserted without evidence. Can be dismissed without evidence." - Christopher Hitchins

 

[Pavlos Maros]

Hey Pavlos,

Rather than shift the focus of this thread, could we take this conversation to another thread?

My post was in keeping with the theme of this thread you took it else where. when you said "Not for those of us who have experienced validation of the premise."

 

[Pavlos Maros]

As in ... "Let us reason together"?

But will you. I doubt it.
If you want to open a new thread do so. I may participate, providing you have evidence enough. Which I most certainly doubt.

 

[paradox3]

For me, one of the really nice things about this "89 chapter" project is that Mr Paradox and I have been discussing scripture. Now, it is not unheard of for us to discuss faith and church life. But I can't think of a time we have ever talked about the bible.

Earlier today, I was telling him that folks have been arguing on this thread. He came up with an analogy which had to do with the Woodstock festival back in the day. Something to do with the value of the music vs. how many times each group appeared on stage.

You are welcome to continue the discussion here or open a new thread. Whatever you like.

Tomorrow morning I will post my summary of Matthew 9 and my reflection. I note with interest that no one has actually said a word about Matthew 8.

 

[BetteTheRed]

Honestly, you might have been better with your one chapter per thread analysis. I think someone should start a thread about the "if you ask" verse, in context. *Bette busies herself getting caught up with reading*

 

[BetteTheRed]

The demons beg to be released and go away into a herd of swine.

It has only just occurred to me to ask why there would be a herd of pigs in a Jewish village.

 

[Mendalla]

It has only just occurred to me to ask why there would be a herd of pigs in a Jewish village.

There could have been non-Jewish populations in the area but I forget. Certainly, the Philistines and Phoenicians came from that region and could still have had descendants there.

 

[Jaebius]

It has only just occurred to me to ask why there would be a herd of pigs in a Jewish village.

Probably because not everyone who lived in the village was Jewish. The non-Jewish residents of the village would not feel mandated to keep the strictness of the Law.

 

[Ritafee]

But will you. I doubt it.
If you want to open a new thread do so. I may participate, providing you have evidence enough. Which I most certainly doubt.

Ah ... certain doubt. How reasonable. The virtue of your doubt can be addressed later in this thread ...
“When they saw Him, they worshiped Him; but some were doubtful” (Matthew 28:17).

 

[Ritafee]

I note with interest that no one has actually said a word about Matthew 8.

22 But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead. ???