Mendalla
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Does God Hear The Prayers Of An Unbeliever With The View To Answer Them?
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BetteTheRed
Resident Heretic
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It seems extremely ironic that the religion of a man subject to capital punishment by the state should be so enthusiastically embraced by a country that can't seem to give up capital punishment, despite all of the evidence of its failure, starting with Jesus.
unsafe
Well-Known Member
To Truly follow God and expect results in anything that God promises in His word takes hard work and commitment----
Anyone who thinks that getting answered prayer is easy and can come to God with their self righteous selves and does not require certain criteria to come into the presents of God to pray is fooling themselves -----Cain's offering is a perfect example of God rejecting what He has laid out as rules to follow to get the desired results ------
Many want to pray to the light but live in the dark -----and the light is far from them -----We Humans think God should be at our beck and call whenever we are in need and that it is OK if we reject Him and His word but He is to be there for us ---this is just how selfish we as humans can be ----expecting w
To come to God in Prayer ---it takes
Right kind of Faith -----which we get from reading ---listening to His word -----His word inbirths Faith in us so we have the confidence that what He promises and says in His Word will be done ---it takes commitment to stay the course keeping ourselves emerged in God's word and having it rest in our hearts ----it takes stamina to weather the storms that will come from Satan to steer us away from the Word ----it takes continually abiding in Jesus and having Jesus abide in us ------there is no easy route in God's word ---
God's love is unconditional ----His Covenants and Promises have conditions -----there are many ---IF YOU ---conditional statements in the Bible ------these are just 4
John 15:7 says -----New International Version
If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you.
John 14:15-----New International Version
"If you love me, keep my commands.
Genesis 4:7-----New Living Translation
You will be accepted if you do what is right.
Matthew 21:22 CSB
22 And if you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer.”
You can read many more here -----
The Bible is an 'iffy' book - the conditional promises of God
Anyone who thinks that getting answered prayer is easy and can come to God with their self righteous selves and does not require certain criteria to come into the presents of God to pray is fooling themselves -----Cain's offering is a perfect example of God rejecting what He has laid out as rules to follow to get the desired results ------
Many want to pray to the light but live in the dark -----and the light is far from them -----We Humans think God should be at our beck and call whenever we are in need and that it is OK if we reject Him and His word but He is to be there for us ---this is just how selfish we as humans can be ----expecting w
To come to God in Prayer ---it takes
Right kind of Faith -----which we get from reading ---listening to His word -----His word inbirths Faith in us so we have the confidence that what He promises and says in His Word will be done ---it takes commitment to stay the course keeping ourselves emerged in God's word and having it rest in our hearts ----it takes stamina to weather the storms that will come from Satan to steer us away from the Word ----it takes continually abiding in Jesus and having Jesus abide in us ------there is no easy route in God's word ---
God's love is unconditional ----His Covenants and Promises have conditions -----there are many ---IF YOU ---conditional statements in the Bible ------these are just 4
John 15:7 says -----New International Version
If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you.
John 14:15-----New International Version
"If you love me, keep my commands.
Genesis 4:7-----New Living Translation
You will be accepted if you do what is right.
Matthew 21:22 CSB
22 And if you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer.”
You can read many more here -----
The Bible is an 'iffy' book - the conditional promises of God
unsafe
Well-Known Member
BetteTheRed -----your quote ------Unsafe claims that some assumed "answers" include answers from Satan.
Unless you have discernment you could very well be deceived in the prayer department ---------knowing what God says in His word is vital to discerning if the answer to the prayer comes from God -----any answered prayer from God will line up with His word ------
Unless you have discernment you could very well be deceived in the prayer department ---------knowing what God says in His word is vital to discerning if the answer to the prayer comes from God -----any answered prayer from God will line up with His word ------
unsafe
Well-Known Member
Inannawhimsey--------Satan has been defeated!
You are so right there ------Jesus defeated Satan on the Cross ----
Now it is our job to keep him out of our life and believe me it is not as easy as we think ------we have to be on guard every minute of every day to keep him at bay -------it is up to us now ------God did His part -----
You are so right there ------Jesus defeated Satan on the Cross ----
Now it is our job to keep him out of our life and believe me it is not as easy as we think ------we have to be on guard every minute of every day to keep him at bay -------it is up to us now ------God did His part -----
Is the word of God scripted by some tyrannical monarchist ... by the name of Jimmy ... or James to be cricket?
Tis all about power while something shadowy appears under there ... within mystical understanding? Could this become apocalyptic through mental revelation ... being psyche is considered meta science ...? Are there dark parallels appearing next to the paradigm of utopia as sheer dystopian?
Now that is continuing chaos ... due to vanities without ends ... butts gone bad!
Tis all about power while something shadowy appears under there ... within mystical understanding? Could this become apocalyptic through mental revelation ... being psyche is considered meta science ...? Are there dark parallels appearing next to the paradigm of utopia as sheer dystopian?
Now that is continuing chaos ... due to vanities without ends ... butts gone bad!
revjohn
Well-Known Member
unsafe said:
You are welcome.
unsafe said:
Fair enough.
The question that begs to be asked then is, "If God does not intend to answer the prayers of non-believers then why does God bother to hear the prayer of unbelievers?"
Further to that, "If God hears the prayers of the non-believers and does not respond to those prayers is that not the same as God answering those prayers with 'No.'?"
unsafe said:
Yes and no. The scripture does point out that the reason why some prayers are not answered is that the request failed in some other way. It does not divide answers between believers and non-believers so much as it stipulates between good prayers and poor ones.
Since we are discussing in terms of believers and non-believers it seems that in order for the non-believers to exist there has to be an element of un or non-belief. One wonders why in the presence of un or non-belief there is even prayer in the first place.
Some theologians have posited that this urge to prayer is a sign of the Holy Spirit working on the hearts and minds of individuals who may be wavering in their un or non-belief. That being the case it is the Spirit prompting them to prayer would God fail to respond to prayer instigated by the Holy Spirit just because the individual that the Holy Spirit is prodding towards prayer has not formally made a declaration of belief?
unsafe said:
Apparently not every believer does either so in that there is little difference between the prayer of the believer and the non-believer.
unsafe said:
unsafe said:
Ahhhhh. So God does hear the prayers of the unbeliever with a mind to answer. Even if most of those prayers of the unbeliever are met with a "no" or "not at this time/in this way."
unsafe said:
You use the phrase that God is not a respecter of persons quite a bit. I'm wondering what you mean when you use it. Because I actually agree with you that God is no respecter of persons but I seem to have a different understanding of what that means.
unsafe said:
unsafe said:
Then positing that God treats the believer differently than the unbeliever actually does introduce favouritism in that God favours the prayers of the believer ways that unbelievers do get.
The appeal to Isaiah 59: 2 is a poor proof-text to use in the believer/non-believer paradigm. Isaiah 59: 2 is written to a believing community and is enveloped in an understanding of covenantal blessings and curses. At most there is evidence of a divide between those who have been faithful to the covenant and those who have broken the covenant. It is a mistake of epic proportions to presume the divide is between believers and unbelievers.
Under the covenant established between God and Israel all parties agree that when the nation is faithful to the covenant God will prosper the nation and when the nation dishonours the covenant God will discipline the nation. Form the context of scripture the exile is God taking deliberate action designed to prompt the nation back into a faithfulness to the covenant.
Apart from that the poetic language employed, if taken literally poses a problem. If God refuses to hear those who dihonour the covenant and he refuses to hear those individuals while they are being disciplined how would God know that the discipline has worked?
And then there is the embarrasing fact that you and I have agreed with the premise that God hears the prayers of unbelievers whereas this poor bit of proof-texting claims that God does not hear.them.
unsafe said:
unsafe said:
The problem began when you decided this text spoke to the differences between believers and non-believers rather than to those who were faithful and those who were faithless. It also didn't help that you ignored the context of the passage and the message it conveys. Nobody can properly appeal to 59: 2 and go on to ignore 59: 21. Where he will not listen to the prayers of the faithless he is about to lay his Spirit upon them and the word he puts into their mouths he will hear.
James 5 is likewise written to a community of believers and is not a comparison between believers and unbelievers and the benefits that believers have over unbelievers. If anything it is instruction on how believers should behave.
unsafe said:
First and foremost we should respect scripturures like these and not force them into saying things that they do not, as a matter of fact say.
These scriptures (Isaiah 59 and James 5) are written for the believer and they are written so that the believer may know what God is up to. They are not written so that we may feel superior to un or non-believers. If we get to such a place of arrogance we have spectacularly missed the point of the grace of Christ Jesus.
Particularly in light of Isaiah 59: 21 where God shows that he is no respector of persons by placing his spirit upon those in exile and putting his words in their mouths and the mouths of their children.
So then, if God can lay his Spirit upon the faithless and put his words into their mouths is it impossible for God to lay his Spirit upon an un or non-believer? It is, if God is no respecter of persons otherwise God actually turns out to be a respecter of personse and he gives everyone exactly what their merit wins for them.
Would god be undercover if no respecter of individual peoples? Thus the sense of the Shadow that creeps people yet they still boost people that represent to population ... to a position of disrespect ( a sense of the power of corruption). Is this rational far beyond people without any stretch of imaginary powers ... protocol of pragmatism? Seriously ... is the result dystopian domains? Thus it may be ...
I am surely determined this is what chaos appears to be ... difficult to understand ... thus one steps back to observe ... like that dark image under the tree ... as it falls in the absence of light ... if red-headed a good place to reside at High Noon as if it were nothing! And th' Eire is was ... the absence of hue monis that alien? Perhaps just Logos ... avatar?
I am surely determined this is what chaos appears to be ... difficult to understand ... thus one steps back to observe ... like that dark image under the tree ... as it falls in the absence of light ... if red-headed a good place to reside at High Noon as if it were nothing! And th' Eire is was ... the absence of hue monis that alien? Perhaps just Logos ... avatar?
unsafe
Well-Known Member
revjohn
Thanks for your input into this thread ------
I feel we are on 2 different beliefs and that that is fine ------God makes it very clear in His word that He does hear and see all things that goes on in this world -----if we go with your way of thinking then there would be no wars ----no flooding ----no volcanoes spuing out ash etc etc ------God gave man free will to choose -----God will not go against His word in my view ----God gives very clear instructions for believers and unbeliever in His word to get answered prayer -----Jesus never once did not get an answer to His prayers -------Jesus lays out what is need for answered prayer -----We can't just pray any old way and get answers ----God knows our heart ------The Heart of unbelievers are far from God and the heart of many believers are far from God ----as God says in His word ----
Matthew 15 New International Version (NIV)
That Which Defiles
15 Then some Pharisees and teachers of the law came to Jesus from Jerusalem and asked, 2 “Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? They don’t wash their hands before they eat!”
3 Jesus replied, “And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition? 4 For God said, ‘Honor your father and mother’a]' data-fn="#fen-NIV-23638a">[a]C)'> and ‘Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death.’b]' data-fn="#fen-NIV-23638b">[b]D)'> 5 But you say that if anyone declares that what might have been used to help their father or mother is ‘devoted to God,’ 6 they are not to ‘honor their father or mother’ with it. Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition. 7 You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you:
8 “‘These people honor me with their lips,
but their hearts are far from me.
9 They worship me in vain;
their teachings are merely human rules.
unsafe says
So if people who are unsaved can come into God's holy presents with their self righteous sinful wicked selves to pray and get answers to their prayers ----then Jesus died for nothing in my view ------cause here is the thing ----God wants to answer the prayers of all people ----it is not God who distances Himself from us ---it is Us who have distanced ourselves from God through our wicked ways and sin -------we are the ones who screwed up not God -----
Why should a Holy God who has sent His Son to die on the Cross to forgive sins of all people answer the prayers of those people who refuse to believe and receive His Son who died a horrible death to free us from our iniquity and sin nature accept the prayers of people who don't give Him the time of day and refuse His offer which He gives Freely to all people to be free from their iniquity and sin and to be able to come into His Holy Presents ------ What makes us feel we are all that --that we can just come to God anyway we want to and get answers to our prayers -------
It has been said here that God is not a vending machine ----and yet by unsaved people coming to a Holy God in prayer and expecting answers whatever the answer --yes--no---maybe---not now ---later dude -----then as far as I am concerned this is the perfect example of people using God as a vending machine -------put your quarter in and get an answer no need to even give God the time of day -----pray as you wish ----
As far as believers go -----Answered prayer is in place for those who's hearts are in the right place and obey His word and pray His will ------many believers that don't get their prayers answered there is a reason and the Word of God tells us why -------James says it like this -- they ask with the wrong motives -----
And as far as Paul goes with his prayer to have Satan taken away from Him ------Jesus defeated Satan on the Cross ------God did His part ----we are to call on God's Grace to give us the strength to keep Satan at bay -------My Grace is sufficient is God's answer ------
Why should God answer prayer that is already in place by the death of His Son -----that is like saying ---I know God your Son accomplished this on the cross but I don't believe that so I am praying about it now and I expect an answer ------
Jesus gives full instructions as to how to get answered prayer -----up to us to follow or not -----and the instructions are for believers who's heart is in the right place and God knows who these people are ---we don't -----
As I said -----God's love is unconditional but His Covenant promises have conditions -----we can believe this or not -------
Anywhere God says ------I WILL ----that is a Promise --------anywhere God says IF YOU or If we ----that is a condition -------
unsafe says
So we see here in scripture below a condition ---if we ask according to His will ------well what is His will ----first we need to know that to be heard ---
KJV
1 John 5:14-15 - And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us: (Read More...)
unsafe says ---If we abide in Him ----condition here ---question ----do unbelievers abide in Him ----I don't think so ----and then there is another condition here -----and my word abides in you ----does the word abide in unbelievers -----I don't think so -----
John 15:7 - If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
unsafe says
These are just a couple revjohn ---now of course we can believe what we want ---but unsafe believes and follows God's word and I have had great results ---so you can continue to do as you do and as you believe -----and I will continue to follow and do the word as it is working well for me ---
But we must always remember there is an enemy loose and he can block prayers and he can make us believe that God is the one answering the prayer we pray and discernment is needed to know the difference ------God's answer will always line up with His will and His word -----
Telling unbelievers God will answer their prayers without telling them what the Bible says about answered prayer is giving them False Hope and watering down scripture is to please the Church not God ----but that is just my view ------we are to preach truth not what we want to please people ----and the scripture tells us that -----
Thanks for your input into this thread ------
I feel we are on 2 different beliefs and that that is fine ------God makes it very clear in His word that He does hear and see all things that goes on in this world -----if we go with your way of thinking then there would be no wars ----no flooding ----no volcanoes spuing out ash etc etc ------God gave man free will to choose -----God will not go against His word in my view ----God gives very clear instructions for believers and unbeliever in His word to get answered prayer -----Jesus never once did not get an answer to His prayers -------Jesus lays out what is need for answered prayer -----We can't just pray any old way and get answers ----God knows our heart ------The Heart of unbelievers are far from God and the heart of many believers are far from God ----as God says in His word ----
Matthew 15 New International Version (NIV)
That Which Defiles
15 Then some Pharisees and teachers of the law came to Jesus from Jerusalem and asked, 2 “Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? They don’t wash their hands before they eat!”
3 Jesus replied, “And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition? 4 For God said, ‘Honor your father and mother’a]' data-fn="#fen-NIV-23638a">[a]C)'> and ‘Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death.’b]' data-fn="#fen-NIV-23638b">[b]D)'> 5 But you say that if anyone declares that what might have been used to help their father or mother is ‘devoted to God,’ 6 they are not to ‘honor their father or mother’ with it. Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition. 7 You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you:
8 “‘These people honor me with their lips,
but their hearts are far from me.
9 They worship me in vain;
their teachings are merely human rules.
unsafe says
So if people who are unsaved can come into God's holy presents with their self righteous sinful wicked selves to pray and get answers to their prayers ----then Jesus died for nothing in my view ------cause here is the thing ----God wants to answer the prayers of all people ----it is not God who distances Himself from us ---it is Us who have distanced ourselves from God through our wicked ways and sin -------we are the ones who screwed up not God -----
Why should a Holy God who has sent His Son to die on the Cross to forgive sins of all people answer the prayers of those people who refuse to believe and receive His Son who died a horrible death to free us from our iniquity and sin nature accept the prayers of people who don't give Him the time of day and refuse His offer which He gives Freely to all people to be free from their iniquity and sin and to be able to come into His Holy Presents ------ What makes us feel we are all that --that we can just come to God anyway we want to and get answers to our prayers -------
It has been said here that God is not a vending machine ----and yet by unsaved people coming to a Holy God in prayer and expecting answers whatever the answer --yes--no---maybe---not now ---later dude -----then as far as I am concerned this is the perfect example of people using God as a vending machine -------put your quarter in and get an answer no need to even give God the time of day -----pray as you wish ----
As far as believers go -----Answered prayer is in place for those who's hearts are in the right place and obey His word and pray His will ------many believers that don't get their prayers answered there is a reason and the Word of God tells us why -------James says it like this -- they ask with the wrong motives -----
And as far as Paul goes with his prayer to have Satan taken away from Him ------Jesus defeated Satan on the Cross ------God did His part ----we are to call on God's Grace to give us the strength to keep Satan at bay -------My Grace is sufficient is God's answer ------
Why should God answer prayer that is already in place by the death of His Son -----that is like saying ---I know God your Son accomplished this on the cross but I don't believe that so I am praying about it now and I expect an answer ------
Jesus gives full instructions as to how to get answered prayer -----up to us to follow or not -----and the instructions are for believers who's heart is in the right place and God knows who these people are ---we don't -----
As I said -----God's love is unconditional but His Covenant promises have conditions -----we can believe this or not -------
Anywhere God says ------I WILL ----that is a Promise --------anywhere God says IF YOU or If we ----that is a condition -------
unsafe says
So we see here in scripture below a condition ---if we ask according to His will ------well what is His will ----first we need to know that to be heard ---
KJV
1 John 5:14-15 - And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us: (Read More...)
unsafe says ---If we abide in Him ----condition here ---question ----do unbelievers abide in Him ----I don't think so ----and then there is another condition here -----and my word abides in you ----does the word abide in unbelievers -----I don't think so -----
John 15:7 - If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
unsafe says
These are just a couple revjohn ---now of course we can believe what we want ---but unsafe believes and follows God's word and I have had great results ---so you can continue to do as you do and as you believe -----and I will continue to follow and do the word as it is working well for me ---
But we must always remember there is an enemy loose and he can block prayers and he can make us believe that God is the one answering the prayer we pray and discernment is needed to know the difference ------God's answer will always line up with His will and His word -----
Telling unbelievers God will answer their prayers without telling them what the Bible says about answered prayer is giving them False Hope and watering down scripture is to please the Church not God ----but that is just my view ------we are to preach truth not what we want to please people ----and the scripture tells us that -----
unsafe
Well-Known Member
Does God answer the prayers of unbelievers?
God is sovereign and can choose to answer any prayer He sees fit. But Scripture clearly indicates that God does not listen to or answer every prayer. In fact, Scripture gives at least fifteen reasons for unanswered prayer. God does not answer the prayer of those:
unsafe says ---read the reasons here ------
Does God answer the prayers of unbelievers?
unsafe says ------
So many believe that God does not answer the prayers of unbelievers and if believers ask amiss they to are left with prayers unanswered as well --it is a heart and obedience issue ----
As Ministers we are to preach Truth ----and God says His word is truth ----so if anyone wants to argue with that they will have to take it up with God --
Here is another shot 6 min video ----the videos posted all say the same thing -----God does not answer the prayers of the unbelievers ---we can of course ignore these videos or discredit them or say they are wrong ----But are they ????? that is the real question ----- scripture seems to say they are right --maybe it is our humanism that wants them to be wrong -----who knows ?????
Hebrews 10:19-21 says this -----the only way to enter into God's Holy Presents is by the Blood of Jesus -----to me that would include Prayer
unsafe
Well-Known Member
Waterfall ---Unsafe, why would an unbeliever be praying to God in the first place?
Good question ---but by unbeliever I mean unsaved ----The there many who call themselves Christians who are not saved ---they go to church --they believe in God but they have not received Jesus as their Lord and Saviour and I would say many pray to God when they feel the need to ---
Good question ---but by unbeliever I mean unsaved ----The there many who call themselves Christians who are not saved ---they go to church --they believe in God but they have not received Jesus as their Lord and Saviour and I would say many pray to God when they feel the need to ---
So do you believe that a person just says a prayer asking Jesus to come into one's life in order to become saved?
chansen
Had a point all along
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Not an unbeliever like me, more an unbeliever like you.
What are you implying?
chansen
Had a point all along
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Not implying. Saying outright that unsafe does not consider you to be a believer.
You are 100% correct that people like me do not pray. Mostly because it never crosses my mind. Unsafe is talking about unbelievers who pray. Those people are more like you.
You are 100% correct that people like me do not pray. Mostly because it never crosses my mind. Unsafe is talking about unbelievers who pray. Those people are more like you.
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Ah okay, gotcha.
chansen
Had a point all along
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Am I wrong? I forget your exact beliefs. Are you batshiat insane enough to qualify as a believer to unsafe?
unsafe, can we get a ruling on this? I'd settle for your opinion, but because God listens to you, maybe you could pray for a ruling from the Big Guy himself?
unsafe, can we get a ruling on this? I'd settle for your opinion, but because God listens to you, maybe you could pray for a ruling from the Big Guy himself?