Dear friends,
I am writing this letter out of concern for the UCCan project called
wondercafe. The concern is the health of the environment which we may
unknowingly be directing congregants and youth to, through its promotion. Of
concern are the many posts that reflect false teaching, the mocking of God,
ongoing profanity, unmentionable sexual vulgarities and general hostility. I
would hope that this does not reflect the UCCan fellowship values. I would
like to persuade UCCan to consider its responsibilities in its fellowship
endeavours and encourage its ministers that share in the values of fellowship
and the articles of faith. My personal introduction to the UCCan was through
wondercafe. It does however, not reflect a place I could recommend in good
conscience. For God is not the author of confusion but of peace, as in all
the churches of the saints.(1 Corinthians 14:33) Included is a commentary
video for your review and consideration for validity (I should mention, given
my experience on wondercafe, that there is nothing funny about the video, or
his closing comment.)[3] Here is
another link regarding the original purpose of wondercafe:
CTV Interview: WonderCafe.ca | Maggie Fox [4] In
brief, these are some posts that should be of concern and are intended to
increase your awareness about this unfortunate situation. Those who visit
wondercafe are subjected to a ongoing mocking towards God and of good
Christians everywhere. * Those who go on wondercafe may be exposed to a
frequent mocking of God.*
example:
/A dog is soooo much better than God. I grew up with a German Shepherd who
was part of the family. My parents had another after I moved out of the
house. I have infinite respect for dogs. The God of Christianity doesn't
deserve nearly as much./
*Those who go to wondercafe may be exposed to what may be considered
disturbing notions from UCCan clergy. here are two examples.(I will add some
brief scripture for those not familiar)*
example :
/I have a quite low Christology, one that is canted towards an adoptionist
view. For me, Jesus of Nazareth was a man born in an ordinary way to two
human parents. The man named Joseph may have been his biological father or
may have fostered him or the parentage may well have been
questionable/indeterminate in some way.
This child was raised as any other child in his social class would have been
at that place and time. As an adult however, something happened. This man
developed a distinct understanding of what sort of life God was calling him
to. This was the life of a spirit-filled teacher, preacher and healer. It
is conceivable that he developed this understanding as a result of his
contact with another spirit-filled teacher who taught and preached along the
Jordan. It may have been fed by a series of mystical experiences, possibly
as a result as a spirit-quest experience in the wilderness.
As he lived out this calling Jesus developed a following. Some followers
were closer than others, some were female, most were from the same social
strata as Jesus, the peasant class. In their contact with Jesus thesee
followers came to realize that somehow he seemed (or was) closer to GOd, to
have a closer relationship to God, than most people.
Eventually Jesus fell afoul of the religio-political establishment and was
executed, to the great dismay and consternation of his band of followers.
But after his death something happened. In a variety of places and a
variety of ways they started to have a realization that although they knew he
was dead he had transcended death. In some way he was still alive and among
them. He had died but God had raised him, GOd had said a yes to who he was
when the world had said no. God had spoken a word of life into a world of
death.
And this led them to continue his work of teaching, preaching, and healing.
In the light of this new reality those followers began to reflect on his life
and retell the stories in a way that captured what they now "knew".
I do not believe Jesus self-described as Messiah or as Son of God. Nor do I
believe most of his followers had that uinderstanding of him until they had
experienced the truth of Easter./
23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will
worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of
worshipers the Father seeks. 24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must
worship in the Spirit and in truth.”
25 The woman said, “I know that Messiah” (called Christ) “is coming.
When he comes, he will explain everything to us.”
26 Then Jesus declared, "I, the one speaking to you—I am he.” (John
4:23-26)
22 Then came the Festival of Dedication[b [5]] at Jerusalem. It was winter,
23 and Jesus was in the temple courts walking in Solomon’s Colonnade. 24
The Jews who were there gathered around him, saying, “How long will you
keep us in suspense? If you are the Messiah, tell us plainly.” 25 Jesus
answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my
Father’s name testify about me, 26 but you do not believe because you are
not my sheep. 27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow
me.(John 10:22-27)
example 2)
/the problem is that Jesu only fulfills many of the prophecies which he is
said to fulfill when they are interpreted the "right" way. ANd in many cases
that is a different interpretaion than the original (such as the SErvant
songs in Isaiah where the servant is not the MEssiah but the nation--until
the early followers of THe Way reinterpreted them in light of the death and
resurrection of JEsus). In fact, when one reads the Messianic prophecies
from a more unbiased perspective it is quite clear that Jesus did NOT fulfil
the MEssianic hope. /
It is written: 'And he was numbered with the transgressors'; and I tell you
that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching
its fulfillment." (Luke 22:37)
He said to them, "This is what I told you while I was still with you:
Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses,
the Prophets and the Psalms." (Luke 24:44)
*Those who go to wondercafe may be exposed to many ongoing twisted theologies
using the name of Christ.*
example:
To me, Jesus is a mystic, teacher, sage, mentor, prophet, friend, and guide,
who brought us the message of universal unity, unitive love, and at-one-ment.
I think "Christ" is the archetype for unitive consciousness, and anyone who
has attained unitive consciousness can be a Christ, similar to Buddhahood in
the Far East. There were and are many "Buddhas" or "Christs." Jesus the
Chirst was just one of them, who happened to become extarordinarily famous
and had a religion named after him.
example:
/If, as has been pointed out by others, the "Cosmic Christ" is the spirit of
cosmic unity and synthesis, and if "spirit" in that sense does not only mean
something spectral but also a guiding idea, consciousness, or awareness, then
Christ is never dead.
And, if women object to the maleness of the Christian God or Jesus the
Christ, there are many examples in history of goddesses and female Christs.
The Minoan Goddess, who wields a snake as her scepter, is my favourite. And
there are Inanna, Astarte, Isis, and others. And the classical Diotima was a
female Christ. Alas, Diotima the Christ didn't get anywhere near as much good
press as Jesus the Christ./
*Those who go to wondercafe may be exposed to the ongoing profanity, which
can be easily prevented with software (i have a forum running on free
software, it included a profanity software tool)*
very brief examplesi added the '#@' [6])
1)/Jesus Farking Christ, Pan. --[continued on at site]/
2)/Show how it is wrong? No one can f#@king [7] understand a word of it.
At least WaterBuoy is artistic with his words. You're compressing what
appears to be an insignificant amount of definition into a large number of
words./
3)/"F#@k you in eeeeeeeyeeeee!" LOL "F#@k you in the other eye!!!" Good for
the lulz./
It seems that discussion threads can be made of it.
http://www.wondercafe.ca/discussion/social/s**t-disturbers [8]
using wondercafe's own search tool will reveal the extent of the profanity
through-out this site.
*Those who go on wondercafe may be encouraged to blaspheme and encouraged
further by UCCan clergy*
athiest encourages blasphemy in self created discussion topic:
/So go and blaspheme on September 30th. Why not? As they say, blasphemy
is a victimless crime./
UCCan clergical response:
/Basically, blasphemy is saying you serve God when in fact you serve anything
but God. This falls under the commandment which warns against taking God's
name in vain.
Technically, only those who speak in God's name can be found out as
blasphemers.
Ergo... Atheists and such may disparage and mock but they do not thereby
blaspheme.
But by all means have fun!/
*Those who go on wondercafe may have their beliefs continuously mocked*.
example:
/"God" is extremely difficult to believe with or without this hateful
bulls**t. All unsafe's posts do is point out why this god isn't worthy of
worship, even if He/She/It did exist. As Witch pointed out earlier, this
god is an extortionist - extortionists always provide a "way out".
The damaging thing here - and there is usually a damaging or dangerous
component to unsafe's posts about her beliefs - is indeed how this belief
would affect those with a family history of medical problems (for example).
According to unsafe and a fair bit of scripture, these problems can be traced
back the family tree - not to a genetic predisposition, but an act. Which
is, of course, a completely asinine belief, and a terrible thing to tell
families like this.
What if they even go to the trouble of believing in Jesus and God, and
nothing gets better? Now what are they doing wrong in "God's" eyes?
They're being set up for further misery by unsafe and those who promote these
stupid beliefs based on hateful parts of the bible./
example:
/Is this scoffing? Mockery? I certainly hope so. I think it's important
to mock dangerous ideas that masquerade as fact. I think faith has gotten a
free ride, and has been given far too much respect for far too long. A
faith is no more worthy of automatic respect than a political opinion./
example:
/But truthfully, I have it pretty good. I know it, and I appreciate it. I
have a good marriage. I have two happy, healthy kids, and throughout both
pregnancies, I've always thought the beliefs you hold and the God you worship
are some of the dumbest ideas I've ever heard. Your hypothesis and your
bible fail upon just the slightest bit of observation./
example:
/Islam is equally ridiculous. I was even banned from WC for a few hours in
the spring over publishing images from Everybody Draw Muhammad Day./
*Those who go on wondercafe wont find a site reference to Jesus in its
welcome, although you will find these two references in their ad campaign.
(see attached pictures)*
*Those who go on wondercafe may have their ethnicity questioned*
examples:
/Well Azxcvvcxzazzsdrt as for the race card ... yawn ... go play your race
card somewhere else (preferably in reference to an actual race of people
rather than an historically unstable national/political grouping)./
/I think that should provide sufficient background for anyone wondering about
why the idea of "racism" in respect of someone who traces their ancestry to
"Poland", is so ludicrous.
Despite the commonality of a shared language which may or may not be or have
been spoken in common with other languages most of those who would claim to
be "Poles" are simply white Occidentals unalike from (and often descended
from) white Occidentals found throughout modern day Germany, Eastern Europe
and/or Russia. Given the late onset of a "Polish state" and amorphous nature
of what might even be termed a "Polish territory" the idea of Polish
"ethnicity" is also questionable. /
As i noted, there are sexual vulgarities that are to inappropriate for the
email. I hope we can consider if this is the sort of fellowship values that
reflect the UCCan.
I hope as we strive towards Christian unity throughout 2012 and beyond, that
we can strive towards a healthy fellowship , respectful and reflective of
UCCan values , retaining Christian ministerial truths, for all ages,
conservative and liberal.
I too hope you give consideration to invite back all who wondercafe has
'locked out' over the years in a strive towards reconciliation which reflects
'social justice'
http://www.wondercafe.ca/blogs/moderator-mardi-tindal/unity-united-church [9]
- A concerned Christian.
_________________________________________________________________________________________
19 Jesus gave them this answer: “Very truly I tell you, the Son can do
nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because
whatever the Father does the Son also does. 20 For the Father loves the Son
and shows him all he does. Yes, and he will show him even greater works than
these, so that you will be amazed. 21 For just as the Father raises the dead
and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give
it. 22 Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to
the Son, 23 that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Whoever
does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him.
24 “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who
sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from
death to life. 25 Very truly I tell you, a time is coming and has now come
when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will
live. 26 For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son
also to have life in himself. 27 And he has given him authority to judge
because he is the Son of Man. 28 “Do not be amazed at this, for a
time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice 29 and
come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who
have done what is evil will rise to be condemned. 30 By myself I can do
nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to
please myself but him who sent me.(John 5:19-30) 39 For this reason they
could not believe, because, as Isaiah says elsewhere: 40 “He has blinded
their eyes
and hardened their hearts,
so they can neither see with their eyes,
nor understand with their hearts,
nor turn—and I would heal them.”[i [10]] 41 Isaiah said this
because he saw Jesus’ glory and spoke about him. 42 Yet at the same time
many even among the leaders believed in him. But because of the Pharisees
they would not openly acknowledge their faith for fear they would be put out
of the synagogue; 43 for they loved human praise more than praise from God.
44 Then Jesus cried out, “Whoever believes in me does not believe in me
only, but in the one who sent me. 45 The one who looks at me is seeing the
one who sent me. 46 I have come into the world as a light, so that no one who
believes in me should stay in darkness. 47 “If anyone hears my words
but does not keep them, I do not judge that person. For I did not come to
judge the world, but to save the world. 48 There is a judge for the one who
rejects me and does not accept my words; the very words I have spoken will
condemn them at the last day. 49 For I did not speak on my own, but the
Father who sent me commanded me to say all that I have spoken. 50 I know that
his command leads to eternal life. So whatever I say is just what the Father
has told me to say.” (John 12:39-50) "My prayer is not for them alone. I
pray also for those who will believe in me through their message,(John 17:20)
And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you
before the world began.(John 17:5) 26 A week later his disciples were in
the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked,
Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!” 27 Then he
said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand
and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.” 28 Thomas said to
him, “My Lord and my God!” 29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have
seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have
believed.” (John 20:26-29) 25 He said to them, “How foolish you are,
and how slow to believe all that the prophets have spoken! 26 Did not the
Messiah have to suffer these things and then enter his glory?” 27 And
beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said
in all the Scriptures concerning himself.(Luke 24:25-27) 16 Then the
eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them
to go. 17 When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18 Then
Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been
given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing
them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and
teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with
you always, to the very end of the age.”(Matthew 28:16-20) 45 Then he
opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures. 46 He told them,
“This is what is written: The Messiah will suffer and rise from the dead on
the third day, 47 and repentance for the forgiveness of sins will be preached
in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48 You are witnesses of
these things. 49 I am going to send you what my Father has promised; but stay
in the city until you have been clothed with power from on high.”
50 When he had led them out to the vicinity of Bethany, he lifted up his
hands and blessed them. 51 While he was blessing them, he left them and was
taken up into heaven. 52 Then they worshiped him and returned to Jerusalem
with great joy. 53 And they stayed continually at the temple, praising
God.(Luke 24:45-52)
6 Then they gathered around him and asked him, “Lord, are you at this time
going to restore the kingdom to Israel?”
7 He said to them: “It is not for you to know the times or dates the
Father has set by his own authority. 8 But you will receive power when the
Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in
all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.” 9 After he said
this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their
sight.(Acts 1:6-9) 8 “I tell you, whoever publicly acknowledges me before
others, the Son of Man will also acknowledge before the angels of God. 9 But
whoever disowns me before others will be disowned before the angels of
God.(Luke 12:8-9)
6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to
the Father except through me.(John 14:6)
***********************************************************************************
23 But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who
belong to him. 24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to
God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25
For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The
last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 For he “has put everything under
his feet.”[c [11]] Now when it says that “everything” has been put
under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put
everything under Christ. 28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will
be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all
in all.
(1 Corinthians 15:23-28)
[1]
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John%207&version=NIV#fen-NIV...
[2]
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John%207&version=NIV#fen-NIV...
[3][4] CTV Interview: WonderCafe.ca | Maggie Fox
[5]
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=john%2010&version=NIV#fen-NI...
[6] http://us.mc658.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to='#@'
[7] http://us.mc658.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=f#@king
[8] ../discussion/social/s**t-disturbers
[9] ../blogs/moderator-mardi-tindal/unity-united-church
[10]
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+12&version=NIV#fen-NIV-...
[11]
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20corinthians%2015&version...
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So true. Sorry. But given our friend's obsession with some UCCan ministers, Giancarlo should know the background. "Stephen" is potentially a part of the baggage that goes along with being a UCCan minister.
Stephen is the virtual cross that United Church ministers have to bear. And he's in Ottawa.
Still followingAssuming he's still following this thread, I think he's just learned plenty.
You laugh now.
