TRUMP - Some people think......... How do you feel?

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Morons, yes, who voted against their personal interests becuase they likes the guy from The Apprentice or were simply dazzled by a guy with a sublime combover.

But don't forget the Bigots, who don't like Mexicans, Muslims, Jews or black people who rise above their station.

And then there's just the Jerks, who would benefit from the same low taxes and reduced environmental plan that benefits Donald Trump and other rich people, at a cost to everyone else. The Morons just don't understand this and voted for Trump. The Jerks understand this, and voted for Trump.


O Chansen ... you are not soft cheeked but giving some evidence of hard-shell that hides somethin interim ... some Christmas required for nut cracken ...
 
Powerful women are capable of taking on some of the male traits that might just be seen as strong leadership traits. They have been seen as male because men have traditionally held those positions. I do not believe they need to become co-opted into maleness as a way to cope. Margaret Thatcher did not have to become more "male" in order to become a good leader. Ayn Rand did not have to either. They believed in a certain political ideology and followed that. It is very possible to follow a neoliberal paradigm and be female. It is time to stop blaming the male dominance and own our own power.
I must again adamantly disagree. We have lived in a male dominated world for so long that we have no idea what it would look like to have different traits valued as leadership qualities. The world is structured around male dominance. We have long been, as women - either consciously or subconsciously taught that if you want any power you have to learn to play tough like the boys. Now, I think that Thatcher and Rand - unfortunately confused leadership with authoritarianism because it's a slippery slope in male dominated politics. And the men do it too - the system is set up for it. Ruthlessness, competition, the name of the game.
 
In this world - love, gentleness, patience, forgiveness, nurturing, compassion - are not seen as qualities that make for good political "leadership". You have to be tough! You have to be unforgiving. You have to be driven and competitive and unflinching.

Great.

I must again adamantly disagree. We have lived in a male dominated world for so long that we have no idea what it would look like to have different traits valued as leadership qualities. The world is structured around male dominance. We have long been, as women - either consciously or subconsciously taught that if you want any power you have to learn to play tough like the boys. Now, I think that Thatcher and Rand - unfortunately confused leadership with authoritarianism because it's a slippery slope in male dominated politics. And the men do it too - the system is set up for it. Ruthlessness, competition, the name of the game.

That may be so. Tough can indeed be "feminine". Gentle can be "masculine" A woman does not have to sell out in order to be a good leader. I know, I've many several good female leaders who do not sell out. Blaming it totally on the male dominated world sells out women's capabilities and is a victim stance. It is time to challenge the social constructs and I believe that there are women who have been able to do that since Thatcher and Rand.
 
In this world - love, gentleness, patience, forgiveness, nurturing, compassion - are not seen as qualities that make for good political "leadership". You have to be tough! You have to be unforgiving. You have to be driven and competitive and unflinching.

Great.
To a certain extent I agree with you. Then again I can't think of a present day politician that I like. So that is my bias and I try to deal with that.
 
Morons, yes, who voted against their personal interests becuase they likes the guy from The Apprentice or were simply dazzled by a guy with a sublime combover.

But don't forget the Bigots, who don't like Mexicans, Muslims, Jews or black people who rise above their station.

And then there's just the Jerks, who would benefit from the same low taxes and reduced environmental plan that benefits Donald Trump and other rich people, at a cost to everyone else. The Morons just don't understand this and voted for Trump. The Jerks understand this, and voted for Trump.
My father in law thinks Trump is a better candidate for POTUS than Obama and he is a nuclear physicist. So I am wondering if that makes him a moron or a jerk. I don't agree with him on political matters but won't say if he is one or the other. It really makes me wonder though.
 
To a certain extent I agree with you. Then again I can't think of a present day politician that I like. So that is my bias and I try to deal with that.

These days it seems there are very few politicians out there worth trusting. The one I trust most is the guy I'm supporting for mayor of Toronto. I may even do some campaign work for him when the time is right.
 
These days it seems there are very few politicians out there worth trusting. The one I trust most is the guy I'm supporting for mayor of Toronto. I may even do some campaign work for him when the time is right.
Since I don't know who that guy is I can't really comment on that. Then again I really don't like Toronto. I have visited the city a few times and wasn't impressed. Then again I don't like big cities to begin with.
 
Since I don't know who that guy is I can't really comment on that. Then again I really don't like Toronto. I have visited the city a few times and wasn't impressed. Then again I don't like big cities to begin with.

What parts of Toronto did you visit that you were not impressed? If Toronto can't impress you, I don't know what place can.
 
I can think of many places that impressed me more than Toronto - Hong Kong, Shanghai, Beijing, several cities in The Netherlands, Montreal, Ottawa (which I still don't really like), London......
 
victim stance.
I don't know where you learned this phrase was a valid point of view. It's outdated, sort of from the "tough love" era. Or, maybe you've been influenced by something else - maybe your environment (could be body snatchers, could be your time spent in rural AB but I'm not getting you). I think that's where you and I most disagree. I went to school and was taught by SW's in the 2000s to recognize the historical injustice of white male dominated culture - how entrenched it is - and that victim blaming is wrong. You don't want people to continue to be victimized (and not by their own doing) but you have to acknowledge where they have been. The culture needs to change by not valuing strong-man traits as leadership. I don't care what gender those traits are referred to as after that happens. Until then - yes, women still fall into the trap of being expected to keep up to the boys. And so do men. And that makes them victims of male dominated culture.
 
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My father in law thinks Trump is a better candidate for POTUS than Obama and he is a nuclear physicist. So I am wondering if that makes him a moron or a jerk. I don't agree with him on political matters but won't say if he is one or the other. It really makes me wonder though.
My family member - same thing. I'm going with the "jerk" side, rather than the moron side. He's actually a nice guy - really not a jerk himself - but who sympathizes with jerks. And maybe the same could be said about Trump.

I think the same about all Republicans. They're going with the "jerk" flow.
 
I don't know where you learned this phrase was a valid point of view.

Or, maybe you've been influenced by something else - maybe your environment (could be body snatchers, could be your time spent in rural AB but I'm not getting you).

Kimmio your resonse is insulting and offensive considering you know little about me.

I'm not going to respond further. I've stated my opinion.
 
You may be overreacting. Every criticism of your point of view is insulting and offensive to you. I suppose I know how it feels. Every time you like a post that is offensive to me, you offend me.
 
You may be overreacting. Every criticism of your point of view is insulting and offensive to you. I suppose I know how it feels. Every time you like a post that is offensive to me, you offend me.

Kimmio if it were merely a different point of view it would be fine. When you invoke body snatchers, say I am overreacting or make reference to your superior education you are resorting to insults. It is clearly not possible for me to be able to discuss with you.

Or, maybe you've been influenced by something else - maybe your environment (could be body snatchers, could be your time spent in rural AB but I'm not getting you)
 
My education was what it was. Superior? I never said that. Different. But victim blaming isn't the right thing to do. Words like "victim stance" seem to mean that you really have an aversion to victims. It's a bad word that seems to upset you. Victims doesn't mean permanent helplessness. It means, people, and groups, in society have been harmed by the dominant culture.


I think the game of life in this world is run by masculine rules and - humanity, human decency - is the victim - and it needs to change. (Playing Cards against Humanity was a stark reminder of just how indecent humanity is - talk about offensive toward every marginalized group - written by privelged white guys whose business is booming - and everybody laughs. The name of the game is to make jerkishly offensive jokes to win hands. I had fun. Laughed to tears. I still feel bad about it. If I tried my hardest to be decent I'd have to drop out of the game - or come in dead last. Like life in male dominated culture).

And the body snatchers/ AB thing - can you take a joke? It was pretty mild. We used to agree on a lot more social issues. You have changed.
 
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Or, to turn down the game ....one looks like a thin-skinned loser/ "victim" who has the problem - instead of someone with moral integrity who doesn't want to get into the fray. I got into the game, the fray. Next year I will not.
 
Oh FFS @Kimmio. Victim stance is not victim blaming. Victim is not a bad word. You are reading way too much into what I'm saying and turning it into something i did not say. You made a point of referencing your education while at the same time saying my point was outdated. That suggests you believe your experiences are superior. Black and white thinking in this discussion is not helpful.

Let me restate my view. Yes there are structural forces at play that oppress and victimize. We can acknowledge that and learn to work with them. We can blame the male dominated culture for bad behaviour (ie Margaret Thatcher, Ayn Rand). That only serves to perpetuate the problem. Men can have "feminine" traits and women can have "masculine" traits and still be healthy. There is nothing wrong with having a take charge attitude and using it to lead whether you're a man or a woman. We can buy in to the social constructs that say we have to behave in certain ways or we can challenge that. I chose to figure out how to live in spite of the male dominance.

It is never appropriate to put people in categories. Saying all women act the way they way because of the male dominated culture is a form of this. Yes, we may be and are influenced by it. We don't have to give in to it and be co-opted by it.

To me "victim stance" says that women (or whatever group of people) can't help it because of _________ (fill in the blank). It is FAR different from recognizing the true victims.
 
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