My Weekly Devotional

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Deep faiths are darker and more po'ly/porely misunderstood ... at the small door ...

The tiny portal is required for focus ... some call it bic ameral ... close to mereo logic ...
 
Luce NDs said:
Deep faiths are darker and more po'ly/porely misunderstood ... at the small door ...

The tiny portal is required for focus ... some call it bic ameral ... close to mereo logic ...
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No, quite the opposite. A shallow faith is already a misunderstood faith. Depth = understanding.
 
revsdd said:
Thanks. I've always said to people that you can find a gem (no pun intended) in any passage of Scripture. You just have to work hard at it sometimes.
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I would say rather that every passage of Scripture is a gem.
 
revsdd said:
This week in my reflection, I'm thinking about the "dangers" involved when we actually treat "the other" with respect, using Israel's entry into the Promised Land in Numbers 13 as a starting point.

My Faith Thoughts: A Thought For The Week Of October 30, 2017
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I don't think your message is the same one scripture is trying to get across.
My read is that God was going to hand the land over to them. And take it from the hands of not very good people who kill their own children.

God even got so mad that he was thinking of killing everybody until Moses intercedes for them. But the end result was that over 600,000 were left dead on the desert floor and only Caleb and Joshua of all the originals eventually entered the promised land.

That would be an indication of God's favour.
 
That would be an indication of who the Jewish people thought God favoured. Bit of a difference. It's like all these flaming sports teams who thank God for their victories...
 
"Not very good people who kill their own children?" Like Abraham was quite willing to do to Isaac? I don't see any difference there, except in end result. The intent was the same.
 
Pontifex Geronimo 13 said:
I don't think your message is the same one scripture is trying to get across.
My read is that God was going to hand the land over to them. And take it from the hands of not very good people who kill their own children.

God even got so mad that he was thinking of killing everybody until Moses intercedes for them. But the end result was that over 600,000 were left dead on the desert floor and only Caleb and Joshua of all the originals eventually entered the promised land.

That would be an indication of God's favour.
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Thanks for your thoughts.

My point was not that it was the specific message of that passage, but rather that Caleb's attitude is largely representative of the attitude of the powerful toward those whose land or possessions they want for themselves. We often eschew truly learning about "the other" because if we get to know them too well, exploiting them will become too difficult. Too often we prefer ignorance of others over knowledge of others.
 
Was God aboriginal ... only as initiated or always was? What a troubling cognizance to entrain a brain within ... obviously surrounded with a weird glow ... heh Lo's?

Just far ranging cognizance could stun a mortal ... the effect of a' theist is just to knock them right out ... thus those helmets with Ram horns ... as place o dunk the penne ... emotional people are greatly confused over the issue ... at a latent point we are required to stop, look, and listen ... and be cognizant of what's coming ... the flood; she runs ... ephemeral effluvial matters? Could degrade into plasma ... bloody ABBA'd ...

It is said that Denmark is one of the most Levite countries in the world ... they hang loose like Pete in the institution .. some give and take?
 
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In my view

Caleb had faith in God and knew God would provide the way to get His land back -----I believe Caleb and Joshua were positive in their view ----they gave a good report ----the others were full of fear gave a bad report and were negative in their report ---

So which attitude should we have positive and faith filled or negative and fear filled

Caleb had faith in God and knew God -----Numbers 14 tells us this ----

24 But because my servant Caleb has a different attitude and has wholeheartedly followed me, I’ll bring him to the land he already explored. His descendants will possess it.

So we see here what Moses told them to do ----Numbers 13

17 When Moses sent them to explore Canaan, he told them, “Go through the Negev and then into the mountain region. 18 See what the land is like and whether the people living there are strong or weak, few or many. 19 Is the land they live in good or bad? Do their cities have walls around them or not? 20 Is the soil rich or poor? Does the land have trees or not? Do your best to bring back some fruit from the land.” (It was the season when grapes were beginning to ripen.)

So according to scripture they did what they were told to do ----and then here is where the attitudes come in -----one group says ---we can't take the place the people are to strong for us and began to tell lies about what they had explored -----their attitude was fear based --doubt and negative ----

Caleb's attitude was ----lets go and take possession ----and he said we should be able to conquer it ----he had a positive outlook and I feel he knew God would provide a way for them to retrieve the land ----- Caleb was confident in his faith not in his ability but in God's ability to provide what they needed to do the job ---he spoke with confidence through his faith and assurance in God not himself ----

So I do not believe that Caleb was trying to gain power for himself or that he was taking others possessions without thought ----he was obeying God ----and today we who are in God should be having Caleb's attitude in my view----
 
It was an attitude like Caleb's (unquestioning obedience to a cultural vision of God) that led Christians to do terrible things to our indigenous neighbours, right up to and including the residential school fiasco, with the belief that God had willed White People to Bring Christianity to Our Savage Brethren.
 
BetteTheRed ------anyone can call themselves a Christian ----people like to say the word is all ---it makes them feel important -----Jesus says it best -----they are called --Hypocrites ---

Matthew 23:25-26 (ERV)
25 “It will be bad for you teachers of the law and you Pharisees! You are hypocrites! You wash clean the outside of your cups and dishes. But inside they are full of what you got by cheating others and pleasing yourselves.

26 Pharisees, you are blind! First make the inside of the cup clean and good. Then the outside of the cup will also be clean.

This is a True Christian verse 26 ----First make the inside of the cup clean and good. Then the outside of the cup will also be clean.
 
OK, unsafe, but you've just judged most of the "Christians" of the world's history as "hypocrites".

Racism is cultural and it infects religion and vice versa. Martin Luther is responsible for the deaths of millions of Jews thanks to the toxicity and longevity of his anti-Semitic beliefs. And he got them, righteously, from the Gospel of John itself, an absolute hotbed of anti-Semitism, much worse in some translations than others.
 
revsdd said:
Thanks for your thoughts.

My point was not that it was the specific message of that passage, but rather that Caleb's attitude is largely representative of the attitude of the powerful toward those whose land or possessions they want for themselves. We often eschew truly learning about "the other" because if we get to know them too well, exploiting them will become too difficult. Too often we prefer ignorance of others over knowledge of others.
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I guess I am just a bit surprised though, because of all the UCC folk that have ever been on WC and WC2, I think that you have the best grasp of what the gospel is. We cannot place today's world values on OT scripture.

Back then, everybody had only destruction to look forward to and salvation was only going to come from the line of Abraham. It was God's will to obliterate the inhabitants of the land promised. Nobody deserves God's grace, and he can do with us as he chooses, and unless you have entered in a covenant with him that guarantees your safety, you are not safe from the wrath of God.
 
Pontifex Geronimo 13 said:
I guess I am just a bit surprised though, because of all the UCC folk that have ever been on WC and WC2, I think that you have the best grasp of what the gospel is. We cannot place today's world values on OT scripture.

Back then, everybody had only destruction to look forward to and salvation was only going to come from the line of Abraham. It was God's will to obliterate the inhabitants of the land promised. Nobody deserves God's grace, and he can do with us as he chooses, and unless you have entered in a covenant with him that guarantees your safety, you are not safe from the wrath of God.
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The gospel is the gospel of grace. It is the call for us to participate in Christ's ministry of reconciliation. It is freedom from the tyranny of the law. It is assurance and peace. It is a call to love God and to love neighbour.

Where a passage of the Bible seems to contradict that gospel then one must determine how that passage reveals God or God's will to us.

In the case of Caleb - and really all of Israel's conquests - I do not believe that the image of a God who commands genocide (because that's what it is) is a revelation of God's nature. How then - given that all Scripture is true and profitable and useful - do such passages work?

In my view they are a mirror on or reflection of the human condition. This is the author reflecting back on Israel's actions and justifying them by saying that God commanded it. Inspiration is found in many ways - authorship, preservation and usage. This is a reminder to us of how easily we can use God for our own purposes, and sometimes for evil purposes.

I doubt you will agree with me on that and I'm fine with it if you don't.
 
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