Transgenderism ..... ask your questions!

[chansen]

It's possible that "mistake" is not the word that I want to use crazyheart, though I don't feel I have a better one. Basically, what I guess I'm asking is why a God of perfection would create a female in a male's body, or a male in a female's body. Where is the logic in that?

What "God of perfection" would create an infant that will only possibly live for a few moments after birth?

If you want to give credence to any "God of perfection", there is a long list of "imperfections" you have to explain before we even get to the topic of transgendered people. And as Chemgal says, if it can be categorized as an "imperfection" at all.

 

[revjohn]

Hi chansen,

Jae makes a good point. Mods?

Sure. I can move it over.

 

[Jaebius]

What "God of perfection" would create an infant that will only possibly live for a few moments after birth?

If you want to give credence to any "God of perfection", there is a long list of "imperfections" you have to explain before we even get to the topic of transgendered people. And as Chemgal says, if it can be categorized as an "imperfection" at all.

I'm not in this thread to answer questions chansen. If you send me a PM I'll be open to discussing things with you. I'm here to ask questions in good faith.

 

[revjohn]

Hi Pr. Jae,

How can I best fit an acceptance of transgenderism into my theology of believing in a God who is the Creator of all life and who doesn't make mistakes?

It probably begins with the inherent assumptions in the question.

Initially it would be up to you to determine whether or not transgenderism is or isn't a mistake.

If it isn't then you still have a Creator who doesn't make mistakes.

If it is then you would have to assign the mistake to something other than the Creator (which inevitably leads back to sexual preference as a matter of choice).

 

[Jaebius]

Hi Pr. Jae,



It probably begins with the inherent assumptions in the question.

Initially it would be up to you to determine whether or not transgenderism is or isn't a mistake.
If it isn't then you still have a Creator who doesn't make mistakes.

If it is then you would have to assign the mistake to something other than the Creator (which inevitably leads back to sexual preference as a matter of choice).

I don't believe that sexual preference is a matter of choice.

 

[revjohn]

Hi Pr. Jae,

I don't believe that sexual preference is a matter of choice.

Well then, if sexual preference is not a matter of choice it would be difficult to suggest that sexual preference could be a mistake.

 

[Mendalla]

Perhaps we are getting off track since this is supposed to be a thread for people to learn about transgender folks. The debate about gender and sexual preference and whether or not they represent a "divine mistake" could go to its own thread in R&F, me thinks.

 

[revjohn]

Hi Mendalla,

Perhaps we are getting off track since this is supposed to be a thread for people to learn about transgender folks.

I don't think we are off track.

Pr. Jae asked:

How can I best fit an acceptance of transgenderism into my theology of believing in a God who is the Creator of all life and who doesn't make mistakes?

I have been responding to that question. I have not been debating divine mistake or even human one. I am working towards fostering acceptance given a particular starting point.

I'm not sure how that is inappropriate or even much of a derail to the thread.

 

[Jaebius]

Hi Pr. Jae,



Well then, if sexual preference is not a matter of choice it would be difficult to suggest that sexual preference could be a mistake.

Never suggested that. What I was conversing about was gender, and I have already commented (to crazyheart) regarding my use of the word "mistake."

 

[Mendalla]

Given that the thread was supposed to be RitaTG answering questions about transgenderism and you are wandering into sexual preference which Rita has already established is unrelated to gender, I think we're drifting. That said, I'll defer to Rita if she feels otherwise.

 

[Jaebius]

Given that the thread was supposed to be RitaTG answering questions about transgenderism and you are wandering into sexual preference which Rita has already established is unrelated to gender, I think we're drifting. That said, I'll defer to Rita if she feels otherwise.

Where do you see me raising the question of sexual preference?? That was raised by someone other than me!!

 

[Mendalla]

Did I mention you by name, Jae? No, I did not. I was referring to the conversation in general, not anyone in particular.

 

[Jaebius]

Did I mention you by name, Jae? No, I did not. I was referring to the conversation in general, not anyone in particular.

Your post, in which you did not identify anyone by name, came immediately after mine. It was therefore logical for me to deduce that you were speaking to me.

 

[chansen]

Guest speaker threads are subject to increased moderation. I'm not a mod. I suggest any mod out there delete posts, including my own, that stray off the topic our guest speaker is here to talk about.

 

[RitaTG]

When I read the terms "transitioned male" or "transitioned female", does that refer to the gender the trans person was born with or the gender that they feel? Reading it in the past tense like that makes me think that it's the former, but I'm sure that these people would prefer to be referred to as their gender post-transition.

Transitioned male = completed the transition from female to male = just a male now
Transitioned female = completed the transition from male to female = just a female now
As "trans" persons .... we always refer to gender from the heart point of view.
Inside I am a woman ..... I am transitioning ..... I am working on making the rest of me better reflect that reality....
Even the person at the very beginning of the process .... please refer to them according to the gender in their heart...
Thank you for a wonderful question Hilary

 

[RitaTG]

Do you think that changes to alter one's sex would be seen as less important if society didn't have a cis-gendered bias?

Is cis-gendered the right term, or is it cis-gender?

Cis-gendered ... cis .... latin for "the same as" ...... the brain is the same as the plumbing....
Society will always have a bias towards a majority ... especially if the majority is very very large....
That is ok .... reality .... and we will work with that.....
We as trans persons are not asking for a reduction of the bias .... we are asking for room .... room to be ourselves....
Lets start there

 

[RitaTG]

Jae makes a good point. Mods?

I don't mind it being moved ..... I just didn't know where to put it.....
I chose relationships because it seemed to be more about how we relate to someone .....
I am fine with a move and I am fine with a stay

 

[RitaTG]

How can I best fit an acceptance of transgenderism into my theology of believing in a God who is the Creator of all life and who doesn't make mistakes?

If I may add a personal perspective Jae
Having struggled with this for decades I have gone through all the various religious avoidance paths.
That includes deliberate sin, inherited sin (discussed elsewhere), a curse from the devil, a result of the fall (hear that one a lot), a cross I must bear... and various mixtures.
I do hope everyone here realizes that I am a devout christian and that my faith matters deeply to me.
Having gone through the various struggles and after trying so many remedies and after so much earnest prayer, vows ... all sorts of things I came to the end of my rope. When I challenged God ..... either take this away from me before I close my eyes tonight ... or make a way for me (an audacious prayer ... completely out of character for me .... completely out of my comfort zone ... a most troubling prayer) then things changed I began slowly to see light..... bits of sunshine here and there. Things began to happen .... and still do .... I slowly realized that this (being created transgender) was actually a gift! ... an incredible, precious, amazing, wonderful gift! The stories I could tell!! ..... yes indeed .... God knows best

 

[RitaTG]

LOL ... ok ok ..... I have finally had a look at the posts about sexual orientation (preference) ....
From my point of view ... although research shows that gender identity and sexual orientation are unrelated .... society still often conflates the two concepts. I feel that sexual orientation has to be discussed to some degree to help clear up that misconception and confusion. This is especially true within the religious community. I feel this is so because of how we got lumped in with the LGB ... to make LGBTQ. This goes way back and then they lumped all the "sexual deviants" together (a bit of uncomfortable history there). Simply ... from a religious point of view .... this was all sexual deviancy and sin ... no further investigation or understanding was necessary..... sin ... terrible sin .... that is all the knowledge needed.
Now the religious community is struggling to wake up and in many cases are reluctant to catch up.
This means that the two issues will continue to be lumped together and much work will be needed to correct that.
Yes ... please do discuss sexual orientation here .... within the context to how it is seen to be linked with gender identity or is seen to be similar to gender identity.
Thank you all for being willing to discuss this elephant in the room in a very civil way.
Please .... we are off to a good start ... let us consider all posts to be made in good faith ... awkward posts are ok....
Please do say what is on your heart ... as respectfully as you can .... and let us explore together counting on each other's good intentions....
Thank you ... each and every one of you
Hugs
Rita

 

[Pinga]

RitaTG, great thread.
All, great questions, conersation.

Rita, I know that we have a binary understanding of gender: Male/Female.
At one point, we had (and some folks would say we still have: a binary understanding of sexuality: Gay / Straight

Do you see any movement to allow for less binary understandings of gender and gender presentation