TRUMP - Some people think......... How do you feel?

[Luce NDs]

View attachment 979

Thus ripples and RIFTs from the Shadow ... a land beyond mortal imagination ... abstractly hued ?

 

[Northwind]

For those who blame the "alt-left" for the violence, this interview is quite enlightening. David Neiwert is a man who has studied this issue extensively and is speaking with Mark Connolly on Edmonton AM.

Edmonton AM | The rise of alt-right extremism

I am against bigotry, racism, hate, etc....DO NOT LABEL ME alt-left. That is a label given by racists in order to demean any protests for peace and against hate.

I couldn't have said it better. Demeaning and silencing dissent is very dangerous.

 

[Northwind]

From Facebook: "Some armed antifa thugs heading to disrupt a peacefully-assembled white nationalist gathering."

 

[GeoFee]

Hi,

Tyranny finds opportunity in a divided population.

George

 

[GeoFee]

Hi,

Tyranny appreciates any reason for the increase of police powers.

George

 

[Jaebius]

Is this how you defend Trump? Searching for the worst examples to compare him with? Is that because he's not defensible through his own merits?

Talking left vs. right here Waterfall. It's @Kimmio's contention that only the left cares - which is of course hogwash. Interesting to hear you say that Clinton's people are the worst.

 

[chansen]

The whole thing is false equivalence. This is the reasoning the racists rely upon. As the "alt-right", largely lead and populated by white supremacists and filled out with those who do not mind being seen with white supremacists, is seen as "bad", they need to show that they are fighting someone equally "bad", so "alt-left" was born by the alt-right to show the other side has violent people as well.

There people and media outlets that claim to be the voice of the "alt-right". There is nothing of the sort that claims the same for the "alt-left". There are people who go too far in their hatred of the alt-right, but they are opposing views. The alt-right opposes views, ancestry and skin colour.

I don't doubt that there are people who are willing to stand and act violently against the alt-right. I don't think the use of violence is the answer, but sure, there are people who violently oppose Nazi ideology. Canada's armed forces once violently opposed Nazi ideology.

But false equivalence is something we see every day from Christians, and this is something not being talked about. These groups are also largely Christian. False equivalence is something they use all the time, from "atheists have to have as more faith in evolution than Christians have in creation," to "abortion is the same as murdering doctors," to "Christians, not Muslims, are the most oppressed faith group in America." It is a tool that they have seen used effectively for years. If you want your not respected views respected, just say how something else is the same or worse, or how you have it worse than others. This is what Christians have been doing for years, and it works simply by repeating the lie. Trump has perfected repeating lies until a good number of people believe him. By falsely saying that both sides are to blame for the death of a anti-fascist demonstrator standing on a street by a neo-Nazi purposely driving a car into a crowd of anti-fascists, he will delight his base and make some people think he has a point.

Now other Republican lawmakers are in a bind. Most know they should denounce Trump's words, but that comes at the risk of alienating their base. Denouncing and distancing is their best bet to appeal to the American population, but if they do, they run the risk of being primaried by pro-Trump candidates. So, for their own political survival, they are damned if they say something, and they are damned if they say nothing.

Some Christians now have the same problem. So many Christians hitched their wagons to Trump in the election, but aren't white supremacists, and now they don't know what to do. They want to be able to discriminate with who their business sell to. They were on board for the immigration ban. They want Roe v Wade overturned. They were on board for banning transgendered people from the military. But they didn't sign up for this specific level of bigotry. They own this mess, and while some (like Franklin Graham of Samaritan's Purse - the shoebox ministry) are defending Trump, most others are suddenly outraged. What do you do if you want your bigoted agenda advanced, but not this one?

Look! Another timely opportunity for the United Church to make a statement, condemning not only the alt-right and their platform, violent rhetoric and actions, but also their Christian apologists, including the President of the United States. I did find something on the United Church website about Charlottesville, that included this line:

Sadly, for others these events were not surprising. Racial injustice and race-based aggression are both part of the everyday experience of racialized people. These individuals, and those who have been working for racial justice, are keenly aware of the persistent presence of White privilege and White supremacy in society—even in church.​

It’s time to Re-commit to Racial Justice and Equity

Could have been more forceful, but it's something, I guess. They need something specific on Trump's words yesterday.

 

[Mendalla]

How faith groups in Charlottesville handled the situation, which is not getting reported very widely I'm afraid. Love and courage were shown. This is from the president of UUA but it is very clear that many Christian and other groups were there, too.

Love Showed Up Today in Charlottesville

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

For those who blame the "alt-left" for the violence, this interview is quite enlightening. David Neiwert is a man who has studied this issue extensively and is speaking with Mark Connolly on Edmonton AM.

Edmonton AM | The rise of alt-right extremism



I couldn't have said it better. Demeaning and silencing dissent is very dangerous.

I am not demeaning dissent. I am demeaning violent dissent. And I do not think @Waterfall is "alt-left" and never called her that.

Would it be better to say groups on the far left who use violence as a tactic? They do exist. I agree that there is no moral equivalency when it comes to their goals, between the alt-left and alt-right...the alt-right, or white nationalist right has no valid cause. Yet, both extremes see themselves as anarchists - so maybe that's where both can be called "alt".

 

[Northwind]

Did you listen to the clip @Kimmio

 

[revjohn]

I wonder how it is that Trump can be a touchstone for White Supremacy when he is more often busy as the poster-child for White Buffoonery?

 

[Northwind]

I wonder how it is that Trump can be a touchstone for White Supremacy when he is more often busy as the poster-child for White Buffoonery?

Seems to me there's a lot of buffoonery in the supremacy movement......... well organized, dangerous though it is....

 

[revjohn]

Seems to me there's a lot of buffoonery in the supremacy movement......... well organized, dangerous though it is....

That must be it then.

 

[Mendalla]

There is nothing more dangerous than well-organized buffoons.

 

[Jaebius]

There is nothing more dangerous than well-organized buffoons.

Hired goons.

 

[Waterfall]

Talking left vs. right here Waterfall. It's @Kimmio's contention that only the left cares - which is of course hogwash. Interesting to hear you say that Clinton's people are the worst.

Don't put words into my mouth, I was referring to your example to exonerate Trump.

 

[Waterfall]

There is nothing more dangerous than well-organized buffoons.

Yes there is, people that are afraid to speak out about obvious injustice for the sake of their jobs.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

Did you listen to the clip @Kimmio

Not yet. Did you read the Mother Jones and Atlantic articles? The first MJ article is an interesting expose of disaffected skin head and punk youth in Indiana - peas from the same pod. Some went far left, some far right, both used violence.

Antifa is only contributing to the shutting down of dissent. Every time the white nationalist extremeists cry victimhood for having their 'innocent' (sarcasm) little gatherings disrupted - if far left people with bats show up to beat on them then that only ends up being a win for the white nationalists to say "see?" and shuts down dissent overall.

I do not think both the extreme left and extreme right are equally responsible for Charlottesville. But the extreme left contributed to the violence.

The left named a loosely affiliated, and broad bunch of far right that includes both bigots and conspiracy theorists who consider themselves anarchists , the "alt-right" - and they said "gee thanks. We'll use that." The right turned around and called the far left who was using violence against them, and who also consider themselves anarchists "the alt-left" - the anarchist left and the anarchist right. They're a thing - that confuses people. It used to be that anarchy was anarchy but even the anarchists have different causes there.

 

[Jaebius]

Don't put words into my mouth, I was referring to your example to exonerate Trump.

Chuckling at "exonerate." Seems you missed reading the discussion that led up to that post Waterfall. I was giving an example of where @Kimmio was wrong in thinking that only the left care. I feel it's you trying to put words into my mouth.

 

[Waterfall]

Not yet. Did you read the Mother Jones and Atlantic articles? The first MJ article is an interesting expose of disaffected skin head and punk youth in Indiana - peas from the same pod. Some went far left, some far right, both used violence.

Antifa is only contributing to the shutting down of dissent. Every time the white nationalist extremeists cry victimhood for having their 'innocent' (sarcasm) little gatherings disrupted - if far left people with bats show up to beat on them then that only ends up being a win for the white nationalists to say "see?" and shuts down dissent overall.

I do not think both the extreme left and extreme right are equally responsible for Charlottesville. But the extreme left contributed to the violence.

The left named a loosely affiliated, and broad bunch of far right that includes both bigots and conspiracy theorists who consider themselves anarchists , the "alt-right" - and they said "gee thanks. We'll use that." The right turned around and called the far left who was using violence against them, and who also consider themselves anarchists "the alt-left" - the anarchist left and the anarchist right. They're a thing - that confuses people. It used to be that anarchy was anarchy but even the anarchists have different causes there.

How do you know that the antifa isn't affiliated with the alt-left and used against the peace keepers?