TRUMP - Some people think......... How do you feel?

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To say that Trump fired Comey "thinking he could not effectively do his job" is pure conjecture. You have no way of knowing what Trump was thinking. It could have been he was thinking that Comey COULD effectively do his job. That was the problem.
I do not understand how a Christian clergyman could be so supportive of a man who is a denial of everything that Christ stood for.
 
Graeme Decarie said:
To say that Trump fired Comey "thinking he could not effectively do his job" is pure conjecture. You have no way of knowing what Trump was thinking. It could have been he was thinking that Comey COULD effectively do his job.
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From President Trump's letter to former FBI Director Comey, "I nevertheless concur with the judgment of the Department of Justice that you are not able to effectively lead the Bureau." Source: http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/09/politics/fbi-james-comey-fired-letter/
 
Graeme Decarie said:
To say that Trump fired Comey "thinking he could not effectively do his job" is pure conjecture. You have no way of knowing what Trump was thinking. It could have been he was thinking that Comey COULD effectively do his job. That was the problem.
I do not understand how a Christian clergyman could be so supportive of a man who is a denial of everything that Christ stood for.
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Is trump an idealism to the "do not think" sector? Thus all was lost ...
 
The farce that is Trump's Washington would be entertaining if it wasn't for the fact that the head clown leads the world's most influential economy (so could mess up a whole lot of other economies including ours if he f***s up badly enough) and has access to nuclear launch codes (that work, unlike Kim Jung Un who'd probably end up blowing himself up based on how their last couple launches went).

My comment about House of Cards was deliberate. If someone wrote this up as a TV script, it probably be dismissed as unrealistic TV drama.
 
The thing is, Republican senators and congressmen see Trump as the vehicle to pass legislation. Most won't impeach him no matter what, because he's a useful idiot. John McCain and Lindsey Graham will talk tough, and then vote along with the rest of the GOP.

They will not put country over party.
 
Even King James indicated desire to party more than publish his desires ... some records say out of the 1.2 B # sterling collected 0.8B was spent on administrative meeting costs ... including wine, food and entertainment for the higher ups that caused death of a lot of the MAID policy ... and the young uns suffered ...

Capital versus the underlings that made up the Demo's? This later was falsely labelled as democratic pilfering ... it hangs on ...

Tis a gest that if you speak about it could get you charged with treason, or at least heresy ... dear Lord would loss of the head be easier?

Facetiae? Perhaps it bees, or even beez not ...
 
chansen said:
They will not put country over party.
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With our whips and insistence on confidence votes, we are arguably even worse on this count. At least at one time, the US could count on people voting across party lines without the PM and party whip punishing them. Part of that is the fixed election schedule, of course. You can't bring down a government by voting against a bill in the US like you can in the British parliamentary system that we use.

These days, though, they seem to have moved away from that. They may not have formal whips and threats of being sent to the backbench but social and donor pressure seem to be doing the same job.
 
It's not just Trump. The whole system is in collapse.
I'm reminded of the rise or aristocracy in medieval Europe. It placed power into the hands of those who could then amass wealth out of power. As a result of their greed, there was no advance for most of the population for centuries. As well, the aristocracy became decreasingly intelligent. The original earls and dukes might have had ability - but from that point on, it was a just a matter of being born to the right parents. One result, in the British army, was generations (into world war 1) of half-wit generals as the brains in the family evaporated.
We're going through the same sort of thing now with our own business aristocracy. most of them were born into the business aristocracy. And they are the idiot generals of our time.
 
Oh - jae - do you seriously believe that the U.S. department of justice is a wise and impartial body? Can you spell collusion?
Is Trump your church's vision of a Christian leader? Do you picture Jesus as a person with a vanity wig?
 
Graeme Decarie said:
Oh - jae - do you seriously believe that the U.S. department of justice is a wise and impartial body?
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I maintain a spirit of optimism rather than cynicism Graeme.

Graeme Decarie said:
Can you spell collusion?
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Yes, I can.

Graeme Decarie said:
Is Trump your church's vision of a Christian leader?
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My church has no official posotion on that.

Graeme Decarie said:
Do you picture Jesus as a person with a vanity wig?
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No.
 
Good. tell us how Trump fills you with optimism.
And explain to me how your church cannot have a position on what a Christian is. Nazi Germany was full of clergy who supported Hitler.
 
Graeme Decarie said:
Yes, I know there were some who were critical of Hitler, and who suffered for it. But they were few.
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The visible church is always much larger than the invisible (and true) church. It actually takes a time of either persecution (which demonstrates that the church has real power) or sustained indifference (which demonstrates that the church has little or no power) to help us differentiate the two. I would argue that the "German Christians" (led by "Reich Bishop" Muller) were essentially what had been the visible church which was easily led astray, while the "Confessing Church" (led by figures such as Niemoller and Bonhoeffer) were essentially what had been the invisible church.

You're right that in Germany many "Christians" (looking at it from a Protestant perspective) joined the "Reich Church", accepted Muller as "Reich Bishop," replaced the cross with the Swastika, hung pictures of Hitler rather than Jesus in their sanctuaries, ardently supported Nazi racial policies, etc. etc. Catholics fared a little better. Hitler was raised in a Catholic environment and viewed Protestants with a certain degree of contempt. The Catholic church was persecuted and a lot of priests were arrested, but Hitler had more respect for Catholics than Protestants and also recognized that the Catholic Church was part of a world-wide organization, whereas the Protestant churches were largely independent and had little support from outside Germany.

But I do think you see in Nazi Germany something of what's meant when we speak of the visible vs the invisible church. Who holds on to a recognizably Christian Christian faith in times of persecution? Or indifference?

Sorry for the aside. I thought it was an opportunity to point this out.
 
As for Trump,

I'm thinking of the novel "1984." "Oceania is at war with Eurasia. Oceania has always been at war with Eurasia" - even though they were at war with Eastasia and in an alliance with Eurasia up to that moment. And everybody just believed that Oceania had always been at war with Eurasia. Donald Trump's White House. The story constantly shifts. Trump sets a narrative. All his "surrogates" up to and including the Vice President go out and defend that narrative. Then Trump changes the narrative and totally contradicts everything his surrogates have been saying on his behalf, even though it was what he himself had been saying up to that point. The easy answer is that Trump is just a liar. And, yeah, sure politicians lie. But usually for political gain of some sort. They know they're lying, in other words. I'm wondering if Trump does. I'm wondering if Trump is just constantly changing the narrative in his head in response to events and then actually believes the new narrative, no matter how much it contradicts the old narrative. Which raises the question for me as to whether the President of the United States is even really in touch with reality? And while I do believe that many Republicans and conservatives understand that this is a problem, Trump has a fanatical core group of supporters who really believe that Oceania has always been at war with Eurasia - and who, a week from now, will really believe that Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia once he changes the narrative again. It's kind of frightening
 
If our leaders dissociate us from reality with an ocean of lies ... do the wee people have a hope except to go to hell and dry out, warm up to a dunking that will wake them?

Really what do common folks really know when the Latin Church Fathers stated that the common folk should be maintained in a state of naïveté? Some deep arch O'logy required ... as derived from Logos ... the power (Oz) of Ahab's Log?
 
I'm afraid it's almost certainly right to say that Trump sees his own reality. And that is very likely to lead him to a political crash.
As to the churches, Nazi Germany is only one example of churches conforming to the policies of the state. In the U.S., church and state are the best of friends - and the exceptions have been few. The same was true of British churches through the worst years of British conquest - and of the Catholic churches of Spain and Portugal in their imperial days.
The churches really need to think about their role in promoting world capitalism and conquest. They need to see that in the context of Christ's teaching.
 
Christian churches have been supporting racism and wars and Nazi-Style leaders for two thousand years. So this is not at all unusual. The U.S. has been killing on a grand style for seventy years (and many before that. The churches have tacitly and more than tacitly accepted this evil. Christian George Bush Jr. was a duplicate of Hitler. In many respects, so was Obama. So is Clinton.
Indeed, the whole history of western imperialism was essentially the same as Hitler's outrages. We see evil when others do it, but not when we do it.
The U.S. is possibly the worst affected of all the nations by it mythologies and phantasies. They actually believe they are God's chosen people. They actually believe they have Christian values.
And Canada has happily played on with the mass murder and looting.
 
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