Are we worthy? Of what?

[BetteTheRed]

Blackbelt, what is it within you that demands ONE truth? Would it be difficult for you to view your faith as that like the sages surrounding the elephant, some feeling a trunk, others a leg, etc.? All life as we know it celebrates diversity, and actually functions/works on infinite combinations of continuua. Duality is always only a small part of the entire picture. White is just all light, black is just none; infinity lies between.

 

[BetteTheRed]

It certainly doesn't hurt. If Christianity is "popular" in your household I think there is a greater chance of family members being believers than there would be if it were not.

Meh. There might be a slightly different chance of them being church-goers. I don't think 'belief' is something you can convey, force, advocate for, another person. It MUST be based in personal experience.

If you model to your progeny a life of (largely) cheerful service to your fellow humans, consideration of others' feelings and needs, personal habits that encourage finding joy in the moment, self-reflection leading to humility, your children might be more likely to 'believe' in the ultimate benevolence of the Universe.

 

[chansen]

I dont expect you to understand , i know its easier for you to just be a dick all the time

I have fun with faith. Your responses give me licence to go further, but you also butcher your side without even realizing it. I enjoy when you respond because you're a terrible advocate for what you believe. And what you believe is difficult enough to defend without resorting to obvious fallacies. If you were an atheist and you were that bad at defending atheism, I'd be losing it.

 

[blackbelt1961]

Blackbelt, what is it within you that demands ONE truth?

i would have have to say my belief of one God, , one Spirit , and though i am prone to error , when it comes the the basics of Christendom, for example my comment on Crossan's belief on the Resurrection, I would have to argue that he is wrong in his belief and I am right , we both cant be right , somewhere lies the Truth.

Would it be difficult for you to view your faith as that like the sages surrounding the elephant, some feeling a trunk, others a leg, etc.? All life as we know it celebrates diversity, and actually functions/works on infinite combinations of continuua. Duality is always only a small part of the entire picture. White is just all light, black is just none; infinity lies between.

I would have to say yes it would be difficult for me because i believe with my whole being that Jesus is the Truth, and altho I love diversity because life would be boring with out it, when it comes to ones belief of the unseen or after life, that must be questioned, because clearly beliefs across religions contradict each other, to me that shows error not truth ,

Truth does not contradict itself , I guess thats why the greatest question in history was asked by a Roman prefect who understood the implications of it

What is Truth ?

 

[blackbelt1961]

I have fun with faith.

at the expense of other? that makes you even more of an ass

im sure your capable of arguing your belief with out being such a dick about it

 

[Northwind]

[quoteyour great at not answering questions when it dosnt suite your needs , sooooo, back to the question, its quite simple really

at the expense of other? that makes you even more of an ass

im sure your capable of arguing your belief with out being such a dick about it

As are you.

 

[blackbelt1961]

[quoteyour great at not answering questions when it dosnt suite your needs , sooooo, back to the question, its quite simple really


As are you.

your wrong, I debate , i dont make fun of , dont put me Chasen camp

 

[Waterfall]

your wrong, I debate , i dont make fun of , dont put me Chasen camp

Well I'm pretty sure as a Christian we shouldn't call people "dicks"....try using "viper".

 

[blackbelt1961]

Well I'm pretty sure as a Christian we shouldn't call people "dicks".

your right we shouldnt, but he still is

 

[Waterfall]

your right we shouldnt, but he still is

I edited my reply.

 

[Northwind]

your right we shouldnt, but he still is

Well, your reel smart and no the trooth....... apparently.

 

[Neo]

it seems ridiculous because it doesn't exist in any atonement theory

This is a much better and, imo, a much more truer description of what happened with Christ. The root of the word "atonement" means "unity", as in at-one-ment.

the church did't simply take it , scripture teaches it, Jesus is the visible God in the tabernacle system of old , and it wasn't with just any Human sacrifice

But it was a sacrifice, one which we have all been instructed to emulate.

 

[crazyheart]

Like Golden Rule would have said, "Did someone bring popcorn?"

 

[Ichthys]

I personally do believe that stuff, that the sacrifice was worth paying attention to. The "ransom theory", however, where God pays Satan off with the life of Jesus is a theology that seems ridiculous. It was well known before that time that the blood of animal sacrifices was paid to God as forgiveness of our sins. The Church simply took that concept one step further with a human sacrifice. Maybe it was to accentuate the importance of Christ, I don't know, but it followed the idea of self renunciation from our eastern religions.

I don't understand why though. Why was it even necessary? If the sacrifice is for God and Jesus is God, then what did he try to prove? You don't burn yourself to prove to others that you're a good firefighter (weak analogy, sorry, couldn't find anything better right now). Much less that they now owe you something. You still created a screwed up universe and you went back and didn't fix much of anything and don't bother showing up for almost 2000 years. What a tease that guy is. And I'm being nice here. What does sacrifice even mean when you are a God and you can choose not to feel? What does sacrifice even mean when you know you will be revived and go back to cozy heaven as opposed to being a mortal human who is giving away his one life and won't even know if it was worth it?

I hope this doesn't sound like a rant. If it does I'm sorry. I just think if the whole sacrifice happened, it was a big distractor to have people focus on God again instead of people criticizing God for still not fixing anything when he has all the power in the universe to just fix it. Just fix it.....

 

[Luce NDs]

Is light fallout of a gross dark zone that some would call heaven or a state of mind ... considering the mind is just a psychic smear to some as an image burnt into our daily bread by stray ergs (form of energy) po'lyre understood in collective?

Then in the beginning ... a dark formless void? Is that an ole thingy ... like space contained just in time? Is that a Shadier hue, or just Kohl'r to that more transparent zone?

Judge mentalism ... a dangerous process of variants of thought as they Passover? Do we have choice in what we accept? Some say this would be totalitarian freedom if they didn't have rite of interference ... one should have respect for the wee folks ... thys alt of the earth as differing from spatial consideration like the perspective that alters between oligarchs and lesser castes like the wee people of IRe lands host of trolls, dwarfs, elves, etc. as they are whittled down by the more elite groupings!

If one cuts the bottom end from the epistemological tree doe the elevated portion collapse too ... thus we remain stunned ...

 

[Luce NDs]

If you can't say something dogmatically wise ... say something to stimulate the virtue of curios that teach without large demands ... kind of mettle NG with the internal zone ... out of sight and mind of the superficial centre stage?

Tis an non observable range in some perspectives ...

 

[Waterfall]

I hope this doesn't sound like a rant. If it does I'm sorry. I just think if the whole sacrifice happened, it was a big distractor to have people focus on God again instead of people criticizing God for still not fixing anything when he has all the power in the universe to just fix it. Just fix it.....

You think God should fix it? How long do you think it would take for us to muck it up again? How many times should God "fix it", just to watch us fail to change our ways over and over again? Humans have been given the ability to turn things around and we choose not to use it and sometimes we will turn our eyes towards God and just wait for His return to "fix it" because we don't want the hard work that redemption allows. We only have to look to Nineveh which was spared by God through their repentance, but was eventually destroyed by the Medes because they returned to their wicked ways. We don't have to look farther than our own back yard for modern examples of our cruelty and wastefulness either.

 

[Neo]

I don't understand why though. Why was it even necessary? If the sacrifice is for God and Jesus is God, then what did he try to prove? You don't burn yourself to prove to others that you're a good firefighter (weak analogy, sorry, couldn't find anything better right now). Much less that they now owe you something. You still created a screwed up universe and you went back and didn't fix much of anything and don't bother showing up for almost 2000 years. What a tease that guy is. And I'm being nice here. What does sacrifice even mean when you are a God and you can choose not to feel? What does sacrifice even mean when you know you will be revived and go back to cozy heaven as opposed to being a mortal human who is giving away his one life and won't even know if it was worth it?

I hope this doesn't sound like a rant. If it does I'm sorry. I just think if the whole sacrifice happened, it was a big distractor to have people focus on God again instead of people criticizing God for still not fixing anything when he has all the power in the universe to just fix it. Just fix it.....

My view on this is that it's incorrect to use the words "screwed up". The fall from Eden was a natural turn of events where the soul knew and willingly became entrapped into a world matter. It could've stayed in it's "heavenly state" but chose to become attached to matter, hide bound, and begin it's long journey out of matter. This attachment was symbolized by the actual consumption and the consequent attachment to the fruit of "good and evil", where the latter symbolizes the "coming of mind", where discernment between the polar opposites in a material world was now needed to provided the soul with the necessary equipment to experience and navigate through a universe of life and death, life and death.

The sacrifice is where the soul's reflection, e.g. the image of God which is our personality, is left on the alter of selflessness. In the east this sacrifice is known as the Great Renunciation, the 4th and final stage of being human.

In this way the idea that Christ died for our sins only makes sense insomuch as He was the first to fully accomplish this task and become "perfect". He paved the way for the rest of humanity to follow. There is nothing to "fix" as it's up to us to walk the path of redemption and become "at-one" with our source.

The Christ represents the Soul aspect of Humanity. Becoming aware and atoned with this greater Whole is our task. In this way we are both the driver of our destiny and the one being driven, e.g. being saved. Without awareness and submission to the greater Whole we are but mere reflections, shades and less real of a greater reality.

My thoughts on this subjective, as you've probably figured out by now, are hardly orthodox and conventional. But since when is it a sin to be a free thinker? The real sin in this world is to be totally and blasphemously selfish with no regard for our fellow human being or God.

 

[airclean33]

I don't understand why though. Why was it even necessary? If the sacrifice is for God and Jesus is God, then what did he try to prove? You don't burn yourself to prove to others that you're a good firefighter (weak analogy, sorry, couldn't find anything better right now). Much less that they now owe you something. You still created a screwed up universe and you went back and didn't fix much of anything and don't bother showing up for almost 2000 years. What a tease that guy is. And I'm being nice here. What does sacrifice even mean when you are a God and you can choose not to feel? What does sacrifice even mean when you know you will be revived and go back to cozy heaven as opposed to being a mortal human who is giving away his one life and won't even know if it was worth it?

I hope this doesn't sound like a rant. If it does I'm sorry. I just think if the whole sacrifice happened, it was a big distractor to have people focus on God again instead of people criticizing God for still not fixing anything when he has all the power in the universe to just fix it. Just fix it.....

Hi Ichthys--It seems by your post hear ,you want to be GOD. Now I could be wrong and it wouldn't be the first time. You see Ichthys all things that happen around us GOD uses in His plan. As I am sure you know our GOD can see what will be. Can you?

 

[blackbelt1961]

I don't understand why though. Why was it even necessary? If the sacrifice is for God and Jesus is God, then what did he try to prove?

for one, he proved that evil in the face of innocence , exists regardless of how pure , perfect and sinless one is

You don't burn yourself to prove to others that you're a good firefighter (weak analogy, sorry, couldn't find anything better right now).

there is a difference between hurting oneself and allowing others to hurt you to expose there evilness that all might see

What does sacrifice even mean when you are a God and you can choose not to feel?

you are assuming alot here, if the cross is true, do you think God did not feel the pain and anguish of his people?

What does sacrifice even mean when you know you will be revived and go back to cozy heaven as opposed to being a mortal human who is giving away his one life and won't even know if it was worth it?

apart from other events that took place by the sacrifice like Gods Mercy & Love in visible form and the exposing of evil forces on the planet , what of the question of Justice?. If God Exists and is the ultimate authority , then how would Justice Be ministered by God without offence to the victims or Himself all at the same time upholding His own attributes like Love and Mercy ?


I mean, if your charged in a Canadian court of rape and Found Guilty , do you expect the Judge to say , You have been found guilt of rape Mr Ichtys, your free to go! This court has applied mercy to you !

which is a big issue with atheism & Justice , no objective morality exists