Righteous vs Self Righteous

[Waterfall]

What's the difference in your opinion?

 

[Mendalla]

Well, for starters, the truly righteous know their own failings so don't lord their righteousness over others. I think, though, that Jesus kind of hit the key difference here:

31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on the throne of his glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats, 33 and he will put the sheep at his right hand and the goats at the left. 34 Then the king will say to those at his right hand, ‘Come, you that are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; 35 for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me,36 I was naked and you gave me clothing, I was sick and you took care of me, I was in prison and you visited me.’ 37 Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when was it that we saw you hungry and gave you food, or thirsty and gave you something to drink? 38 And when was it that we saw you a stranger and welcomed you, or naked and gave you clothing? 39 And when was it that we saw you sick or in prison and visited you?’ 40 And the king will answer them, ‘Truly I tell you, just as you did it to one of the least of these who are members of my family,you did it to me.’ 41 Then he will say to those at his left hand, ‘You that are accursed, depart from me into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels; 42 for I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not give me clothing, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ 44 Then they also will answer, ‘Lord, when was it that we saw you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not take care of you?’ 45 Then he will answer them, ‘Truly I tell you, just as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ 46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

The truly righteous did not know their own righteousness while the self-righteous did not realize they lacked it (at least that's one possible reading in the context of this topic).

 

[Waterfall]

Well I think we all know those who like to proclaim they know the truth and others don't.( I'm sure that I'm guilty at times). How do we prevent ourselves from coming across as sanctimonious without turning people away from the gospel or what one believes? Do we just live the life or does it need to include scriptures and such?

 

[Mendalla]

I think @revjohn does a good job. Focus on one's own imperfections and how the gospel addresses your own sense of unworthiness. Focus on how you live Love and Grace and proclaim that Love and Grace to the world; on how WE need Love and Grace rather than on how OTHERS need Love and Grace.

Self-righteousness comes, to a great degree, when we make the focus what's wrong with other people rather than on how we as a people are imperfect and in need of Grace.

Again, Jesus:

3 Why do you see the speck in your neighbor’s eye, but do not notice the log in your own eye? 4 Or how can you say to your neighbor, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ while the log is in your own eye?5 You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your neighbor’s eye.

And, by the way, self-righteousness is not just a conservative/evangelical/fundamentalist sin. I've heard plenty of self-righteous criticism coming out of progressive circles, too.

 

[Waterfall]

How does one tell someone they're self righteous without looking self righteous? Or do we stay silent?

 

[Mendalla]

How does one tell someone they're self righteous without looking self righteous? Or do we stay silent?

That's a toughie, isn't it? It's rather like not tolerating intolerance without being intolerant. I think you still need to put the focus on your own self-righteousness (the log in your own eye), admitting that it exists and that you see it as a failing, rather than simply pointing at the other person's as if you are somehow better than they are in that regard. Not a complete answer, I will agree, but a starting point for making a dialogue rather than an accusation.

 

[Waterfall]

Can you be righteous and still be a sinner?

Does it separate you from others?

 

[Mendalla]

Can you be righteous and still be a sinner?

Depends how you define "Righteous". If "righteous" means 100% perfect, then obviously not. But, then again, none of us would be righteous in that case. So the question is, does the definition of "righteous" leave room for sin and if it does not, is anyone on Earth actually "righteous" or is only God entitled to that? Certainly, I would say that, given the Christian paradigm (an important qualification in this discussion) only God is entitled to say who is "righteous" since our judgement is clouded by sin and self-interest.

 

[Waterfall]

Depends how you define "Righteous". If "righteous" means 100% perfect, then obviously not. But, then again, none of us would be righteous in that case. So the question is, does the definition of "righteous" leave room for sin and if it does not, is anyone on Earth actually "righteous" or is only God entitled to that? Certainly, I would say that, given the Christian paradigm (an important qualification in this discussion) only God is entitled to say who is "righteous" since our judgement is clouded by sin and self-interest.

Here's Isaiah 10:15
"Shall the ax boast itself against him who chops with it? Or shall the ax exalt himself against him who chops with it? As if a rod could yield itself against those who lift it up, or as if a staff could lift up as if it were not wood."

Then we make people saints, who have the appearance of being without sin and we venerate them, why? Do we not hold the same aim without being as devoted? Can we be saints in our ordinary lives or must we live extraordinary lives to be righteous?

 

[Mendalla]

Then we make people saints, who have the appearance of being without sin and we venerate them, why? Do we not hold the same aim without being as devoted? Can we be saints in our ordinary lives or must we live extraordinary lives to be righteous?

Who is "we"? The RCs still do it. Not sure most Protestants do beyond the Apostles and Evangelists. UUs certainly do not. I personally do not accept the existence of sinless beings and try to avoid venerating anything human, so-called saints included. I admire certain humans for things they have done or taught, but I do not venerate them. I know full well they had their flaws and sins, too. Again, it depend on your understanding of righteous.

If "righteous" means "transcending sin", then I don't think so. I don't know of anyone, saints included, who qualifies.

If "righteous" means "living the laws and values we are given to the best of our ability", then sure, many of us are righteous and some are likely moreso than others.

 

[Jaebius]

That's a toughie, isn't it? It's rather like not tolerating intolerance without being intolerant. I think you still need to put the focus on your own self-righteousness (the log in your own eye), admitting that it exists and that you see it as a failing, rather than simply pointing at the other person's as if you are somehow better than they are in that regard. Not a complete answer, I will agree, but a starting point for making a dialogue rather than an accusation.

I'd agree. As it's appropriate to do so, I speak of my own sin and the love and grace I believe God has to cover it. An example of it would this morning in worship. Our Worship Leader (who's also one of our Deacons) shared with everyone in-between a couple of the songs that she had never heard anyone say that they regretted making the choice to follow Jesus. When it was my time to speak, I began by sharing that there had certainly been times in my life when I regretted following Jesus, but that I believe that in each of those times God spoke to me of his love for me and Christ's work for me on the cross, and led me back into surrendering to Christ anew. And I said to the people that if they ever should feel regret, they should surrender anew as well. ☺

 

[Jaebius]

Can you be righteous and still be a sinner?

Does it separate you from others?

Yes, absolutely. Indeed, I believe at best that's what we can be. Far from separating from others, though, I'd say a right understanding of this should lead to greater love and compassion for others. I believe that the self-righteous see themselves as being above others.

 

[unsafe]

What's the difference in your opinion?

meaning of self righteous -----one who is confident in that their own good moral behaviour is enough ----they rely on external forms and the loop la of Religion without regard to having the indwelling of the Holy Spirit-- it refers to the outward action of white washing ------ The Pharisees are a good example of being Self Righteous they resented what Jesus taught that all men needed to repent and they looked with contempt on sinners ----white washing on the outside while the inside is still dirty ------stinking thinking I call it ------

meaning of Righteous ----refers to the heart of the inward man ----one who is Holy in heart ----one who conforms to practicing and learning God's will for living a Holy life by and through relying on the Holy Spirit and God's Grace -----

KJV Dictionary Definition: sinner
sinner
SIN'NER, n.----- It is used in contradistinction to saint, to denote an unregenerate person; one who has not received the pardon of his sins.

 

[Jaebius]

What's the difference in your opinion?

meaning of self righteous -----one who is confident in that their own good moral behaviour is enough ----they rely on external forms and the loop la of Religion without regard to having the indwelling of the Holy Spirit-- it refers to the outward action of white washing ------ The Pharisees are a good example of being Self Righteous they resented what Jesus taught that all men needed to repent and they looked with contempt on sinners ----white washing on the outside while the inside is still dirty ------stinking thinking I call it ------

meaning of Righteous ----refers to the heart of the inward man ----one who is Holy in heart ----one who conforms to practicing and learning God's will for living a Holy life by and through relying on the Holy Spirit and God's Grace -----

KJV Dictionary Definition: sinner
sinner
SIN'NER, n.----- It is used in contradistinction to saint, to denote an unregenerate person; one who has not received the pardon of his sins.

Interesting definition. Can you please provide the full name of the text, as well as the date of publication. Thanks.

 

[Luce NDs]

In regards to self examination ... what do we really know?

Fits with the biblical concept of not knowing, or deviating from the tree of knowledge ... naïveté, or putsch ...

One must get beyond one's elf to see this ... and who believes in OBI ... sort of knavish thoughts ... on knobs!

 

[Jaebius]

I'd also list as self-righteous, people who feel that they have such a special connection to God (or other deity) that they can go it alone when it comes to ways of the spirit. I believe we are made to be social beings who need each other's wisdom, guidance, strength, and encouragement.

 

[Luce NDs]

Physically social versus metaphysically out there?

Thus the OBI experience ... that many deny ... they can't go there ...

 

[unsafe]

Pr.Jae ---it is called the unsafe original publication -----as far as the text goes -----try ---self righteous ----

Matthew 3:25 ---- New Living Translation
"What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you are so careful to clean the outside of the cup and the dish, but inside you are filthy--full of greed and self-indulgence!

 

[Luce NDs]

Pr.Jae ---it is called the unsafe original publication -----as far as the text goes -----try ---self righteous ----

Matthew 3:25 ---- New Living Translation
"What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you are so careful to clean the outside of the cup and the dish, but inside you are filthy--full of greed and self-indulgence!

The incarnate truth ... it is not as it appears on the surface ... some aesthetic adepts required ...

 

[Jaebius]

Pr.Jae ---it is called the unsafe original publication -----as far as the text goes -----try ---self righteous ----

Matthew 3:25 ---- New Living Translation
"What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you are so careful to clean the outside of the cup and the dish, but inside you are filthy--full of greed and self-indulgence!

So you just made the definition up and then claimed it was from the, "KJV Dictionary"? Do I understand that correctly?