The Rev. Vosper Again

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crazyheart said:
West Hill's Voice in the review of Reverend Gretta Vosper
The Petition 2 Highlights 186 Comments 308 Signatures
The Petition 2 Highlights 186 Comments 308 Signatures
308 Signatures Goal: 300
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We, the undersigned, having submitted our concerns regarding Toronto Conference's review of our minister, the Reverend Gretta Vosper, in which we explicitly noted the lack of deference given the covenantal relationship we have with her and Toronto Southeast Presbytery; we hereby further submit that we be provided the right to attend and to speak at the review planned for June 29, 2016. It is our understanding that the review committee is comprised of twenty-four members with four presenting questions. We submit that the Chair of our Board, Randy Bowes, be present at the review and that he be provided the right to speak. This is in keeping with the policies regarding the review of ministry personnel as found in the Pastoral Charge and Ministry Personnel Reviews procedures.
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The thing is, if they establish that "essential agreement" means that you must believe in an incredibly improbable deity to belong in the club, then she's screwed. And so is West Hill. They don't care about the congregation - they care that people are mocking them for letting one of their club leaders not believe in incredibly improbable things and yet stay in the club. She's in danger of being kicked out for not being sufficiently gullible. I've come to see the humour in it.

I'm sure there is some procedural rule why their Chair can't be in the room. But it wouldn't make a difference if he was. Either they are going to placate the easily embarrassed twits and kick her out, or they are going to kick the can down the road and let her stay to avoid alienating all the people who (don't) believe as she does, while making some wishy-washy statement about faith to try to let the twits down easy so they don't start kicking up more of a fuss.

If there is a way to delay a decision further, or avoid coming to a decision at all, I am confident in the United Church's ability to find it.
 
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Inannawhimsey said:
*low persistent drum roll*
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Lo' that's how it is in God's world ... improbable breather in (aspirations) rival siblings on this side of it'll do ... on the other Yahn, or common hand on the opposing side ... comprehension of things unseen ... dissemination by the de Semite I Zed? Viewed by Oz*Ire-us ... the great demi urge ... a one way mind searching to destroy the abstract (the other's IDe-A coming from reflection, or Cana)? Thus Cana-Dein Idea'rs ... these too are kohl, with obvious contained Errs in the concept we-Ired boids that believe they know it all and spoiling the mystery with stoic stand offs that lead to martyr isms. Then they get pissed at those that left, scattered thinkers ... or un gathered though TZ as one out there in the un con' science unified at last! It is an excessive point to the over confident in what they know of continuum ... that amounts to nothing ... a stage for the metaphysical part to pass ... metaphorically what Shakespeare said about the stage ... or John Way in to*it presenting a cowboy version leading to La Red OH ... bloody awesome to the English spin ... extracted from the germane oh Din!

Creates great "a'" (awe) especially in authorities that don't believe in things beyond their limited comprehension (mortal) and this lays the foundational sense of insecurity and rants and rages from those that can't escape the fear of someone knowing Moor and that lass deep in the unseen pool ... to strong men that's be threatening female spirit of Psyche and Sophia ... extended wisdom and the continuum of process thereof! Role models of this out-of-here mode are thus beyond us in abstract form of the dark formless void where there are wee sparks ... escapees from false reality of confined eternalises (eternal-Lisa's)?

Lye's Sah's other termination ... dreamland ... and in yah ghos' to the Shadow collector ... accrued thingy that's a cute icon ... Hur Rye in the Catchy Mode ... role in the clover in Eire! They call Hur Heather ... but few see throu's representation ... Se rapt resent vision ... ethereally seen ...

But if you don't believe in the abstract it leaves you ... as in Jovani ...
 
Ni Vova???? Some say neigh and thus the hoer Semite ... that bitch of an icon to understand ... but if a love (God) child are you delighted to be a putz? On the dark side you can see out into the flaring Jaini ... Janie to many of us, or even J'amie! An authority on condensation and redaction of great old Ide-AR's that many find gross to understand ...

The King of chaos on the other hand James ... ID' rather go crazy ... the other kind ... like knowing a bit ... some say chitz ... they only come upon it in phitz of un con' science that give eM headaches ... as they really don't wish to get beyond that state ... driven as tome catz ...
 
Pr. Jae said:
They seem to be playing it quite hush-hush. At least, I couldn't find anything on the UCCanada website giving the whereabouts.
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Because it is totally inappropriate for the interview to be a publicly advertised event--disciplinary interviews are not public events. And the UCCan website is a national page and this is a Conference issue (though I am sure that the interview is not on the TorCOn website either).
 
GordW said:
Because it is totally inappropriate for the interview to be a publicly advertised event--disciplinary interviews are not public events. And the UCCan website is a national page and this is a Conference issue (though I am sure that the interview is not on the TorCOn website either).
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That's fair. Will any of the media be there? How soon will the members of the UCCanada, and then we outsiders, be informed on what transpired and the denomination's decision thereafter?
 
Pr. Jae said:
That's fair. Will any of the media be there? How soon will the members of the UCCanada, and then we outsiders, be informed on what transpired and the denomination's conference's decision thereafter?
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Fixed yer typo to start. There is no decision made at the denomination level. It is made by the conference.

As for when people will be informed, I imagine that something will go out through conference channels (website or other) at some point once a final decision is made, not just on the basis of the hearing today. Whether any broader press release then goes out is up to the conference, I assume. It's possible that any media interested enough will just have to pick it up from the UCCan sources.
 
crazyheart said:
The review is tomorrow, is it not?
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NO the interview is today (which was tomorrow when CH posted), the interview is only part (albeit a very major part) of the review as a whole. I do not expect the results of the review will be known for a while. I do expect that Gretta's PR machine will have some coment on the interview process within a few days
 
Pr. Jae said:
That's fair. Will any of the media be there? How soon will the members of the UCCanada, and then we outsiders, be informed on what transpired and the denomination's decision thereafter?
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Not a public event. The people present will be the interview team, Gretta, and possibly a support person/observer for Gretta. That is how Conference Interview Board interviews work.
 
I think that what Jae and chansen are failing to grok is that this is not some special, onetime thing but a UCCan process under the UCCan manual. There is really no public interest involved here as there would be were it a politician or something. If Gretta hadn't become something of a cause celebre, we would not even be having this discussion and the review would happen, go to conference, be voted on, etc. without us ever being the wiser.
 
I'm joking about live tweeting it.

The congregation feels left out of a process that affects them more than anyone. But the interview is about how improbable Gretta's theological positions are, not about how effective she is at ministering to her congregation. That's why her fitness to minister is being investigated. Somehow.
 
Mendalla said:
I think that what Jae and chansen are failing to grok is that this is not some special, onetime thing but a UCCan process under the UCCan manual. There is really no public interest involved here as there would be were it a politician or something. If Gretta hadn't become something of a cause celebre, we would not even be having this discussion and the review would happen, go to conference, be voted on, etc. without us ever being the wiser.
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First, points off for using "grok". Second, I'm not really saying it should be a public interview. I'm only having fun with the hypocrisy of the whole reason for the review.
 
chansen said:
I'm joking about live tweeting it.

The congregation feels left out of a process that affects them more than anyone. But the interview is about how improbable Gretta's theological positions are, not about how effective she is at ministering to her congregation. That's why her fitness to minister is being investigated. Somehow.
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When it comes to theology, one's theory and one's praxis should go hand-in-hand. One cannot be a faithful servant of God if one doesn't believe in God in the first place.
 
crazyheart said:
We, the undersigned, having submitted our concerns regarding Toronto Conference's review of our minister, the Reverend Gretta Vosper, in which we explicitly noted the lack of deference given the covenantal relationship we have with her and Toronto Southeast Presbytery; we hereby further submit that we be provided the right to attend and to speak at the review planned for June 29, 2016. It is our understanding that the review committee is comprised of twenty-four members with four presenting questions. We submit that the Chair of our Board, Randy Bowes, be present at the review and that he be provided the right to speak. This is in keeping with the policies regarding the review of ministry personnel as found in the Pastoral Charge and Ministry Personnel Reviews procedures.
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In which West Hill continues to show a unique understanding of what is going on....
The interview is only part of the review process. It is not the place where the Chair of the Board would speak, because the questions the CIB is tasked with asking can only be answered by Gretta. There may be another part of the process where input from the West hill folks is sought (I do hope there is in fact, though they would halso have to be asked questions about how they see the ministry offered by Gretta as fitting in to the UCCan) but the focus of the review is not so much on "does West Hill like Gretta" as they seem to think it is.

OTOH, the more noise the folks at West Hill make, the more they may open the congregation itself up to review as to whether it fits the definition and expectations of a UCCan congregation.
 
GordW said:
NO the interview is today (which was tomorrow when CH posted), the interview is only part (albeit a very major part) of the review as a whole. I do not expect the results of the review will be known for a while. I do expect that Gretta's PR machine will have some coment on the interview process within a few days
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And that PR will be countered by the typical arm-waving UCCan Outrage Reporting Team who complain bitterly about her whenevery she hits the news. Gretta is one of the few UCCAN ministers who knows how to call a newspaper beyond their local free weekly, in support of what she believes in, and for that she is further criticized. You guys should be taking notes, not pot shots.
 
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