Is God's Love Really Unconditional ? ---

[airclean33]

Are you limited to the Levite spots as the darker, heavier objectives are often in the Shadow ... well carpeted dirt on real life ... some neuropsychologists call this un-conscious, or even sub con science ... science being an old understanding about observation ... but people now insist on blind faith about eternal things so they won't have to know ... a free choice? In a visceral sense does this include BS?

It is well you post like you do . As most I know would not want to read your BS.

 

[Luce NDs]

It is well you post like you do . As most I know would not want to read your BS.

I know you don't like me belief system ... so as directed I shall be eliminated ...

One does not listen to the other sibling do they? There could be something else learned ... and that is denied by some god-like entity!

 

[Jaebius]

--Airclean--post--Who said about Babies going into Hell. Not The GOD I follow Neo . My GOD I Believe till age on 12-13 puts the child's sin on the parents. The child has no sin there for , till they understand what they are doing.

What are you basing that belief on airclean?

Romans 3:23 says, "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God," (ESV).

Romans 5:12 reads, "Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned--" (NIV).

All means all.

 

[Luce NDs]

Babies are to young to be reactive ... not unwound yet ...

 

[airclean33]

What are you basing that belief on airclean?

Romans 3:23 says, "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God," (ESV).

--Airclean Hi Jae . Do you see were I said THE SINNS OF THE CHILD fall on the Parents . Till the child become of age.

--Jae --Post--
Romans 5:12 reads, "Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned--" (NIV).

All means all.

--Airclean --post You do get carried away Jae. All are born in sinful flesh. Now where again do you see I erred ? As I said to a child, GOD dose not hold sin against them.

 

[Luce NDs]

Do not all failures need to investigate or be curios of the source problem for the bad errs ... source-errs? Some biblical character put down source*rers!

Some phonetics required!

 

[Jaebius]

All fall short of the glory of God. I believe this means that God will not allow any but the redeemed to be in his presence, and so babies, too, need the Savior. Can you provide chapter and verse that says otherwise?

 

[Mendalla]

All fall short of the glory of God. I believe this means that God will not allow any but the redeemed to be in his presence, and so babies, too, need the Savior. Can you provide chapter and verse that says otherwise?

In Baptist belief (at least your version of it), how are babies to be redeemed? You don't practice infant baptism and they clearly can't read the Bible or form a spiritual identity of any kind that includes faith in God or Jesus. Even if they did, how would you know? Baby gurgling could mean "I believe in God" or "I'm going to spit up on you."

 

[Jaebius]

In Baptist belief (at least your version of it), how are babies to be redeemed? You don't practice infant baptism and they clearly can't read the Bible or form a spiritual identity of any kind that includes faith in God or Jesus. Even if they did, how would you know? Baby gurgling could mean "I believe in God" or "I'm going to spit up on you."

While some Baptists believe in an age or stage of accountability, the Bible does not specifically say that God applies Christ's payment for sin to babies. I trust that when it comes to infants, and others without the ability to believe, God in his holiness and love will do what is best. However, I cannot dogmatically state what that will be.

 

[airclean33]

While some Baptists believe in an age or stage of accountability, the Bible does not specifically say that God applies Christ's payment for sin to babies. I trust that when it comes to infants, and others without the ability to believe, God in his holiness and love will do what is best. However, I cannot dogmatically state what that will be.

--Airclean--post --Jae as a poster keeps saying here. Look at the last verse," of the book of John . It also is a belief of the Jews . Do you know," the Jews, have more than just The Word of GOD, to help them. They have a verbal teaching as well. That is the word" past on through Generations.

 

[Jaebius]

--Airclean--post --Jae as a poster keeps saying here. Look at the last verse," of the book of John . It also is a belief of the Jews . Do you know," the Jews, have more than just The Word of GOD, to help them. They have a verbal teaching as well. That is the word" past on through Generations.

"Now there are also many other things that Jesus did. Were every one of them to be written, I suppose that the world itself could not contain the books that would be written" - John 21:25 (ESV) is not a license for us to go claiming that whatever doctrines we want to hold true must be. The "many other things" that Jesus did would be consistent with his detailed actions and teachings. So, I ask you again airclean - in what chapter and verse do you find teaching against the doctrine that (after the fall of humanity) all have sinned and fallen short of God's glory.

As for oral tradition airclean, I hold that the Bible is a closed canon, and the final authority in all matters of faith.

 

[GordW]

As for oral tradition airclean, I hold that the Bible is a closed canon, and the final authority in all matters of faith.

Arguably though the oral tradition is a vital part of the theology we all hold, simply because we are immersed in it as we are introduced to the faith. As an example we read Paul not as a blank slate but with lenses cast by Augustine and Luther and Calvin and...

 

[Jaebius]

Arguably though the oral tradition is a vital part of the theology we all hold, simply because we are immersed in it as we are introduced to the faith. As an example we read Paul not as a blank slate but with lenses cast by Augustine and Luther and Calvin and...

However, if and where Augustine, Calvin, even Luther disagree with Scripture, I hold that the Bible wins out.

 

[Mendalla]

However, if and where Augustine, Calvin, even Luther disagree with Scripture, I hold that the Bible wins out.

I think that what @GordW is suggesting is that the interpretations of major figures like that are so intertwined in Christian theology and culture that we often view scripture through their lenses whether we do it intentionally and consciously or not. Christians who have never read a word of either Augustine or Calvin still have those writers' interpretations as part of their own understanding of scripture simply because they have affected what has been preached from pulpits and written about for centuries.

 

[airclean33]

Again you ask for chapter and verse, I have explained. I see it though out GODS word. This may help you.

Rom 9:11though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad, in order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of his call,

Rom 9:12she was told, "The elder will serve the younger."

Rom 9:13As it is written, "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated."

Rom 9:14What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means!

 

[Jaebius]

I think that what @GordW is suggesting is that the interpretations of major figures like that are so intertwined in Christian theology and culture that we often view scripture through their lenses whether we do it intentionally and consciously or not. Christians who have never read a word of either Augustine or Calvin still have those writers' interpretations as part of their own understanding of scripture simply because they have affected what has been preached from pulpits and written about for centuries.

Oh, I agree Mendalla.

At the same time, I still hold that wherever we do see a discrepancy between something Augustine, Calvin, Luther, etc. says and the Bible, the Scripture is to be accepted and the other writing discarded.

 

[BetteTheRed]

And what if Scripture contradicts itself?

 

[Mendalla]

Oh, I agree Mendalla.

At the same time, I still hold that wherever we do see a discrepancy between something Augustine, Calvin, Luther, etc. says and the Bible, the Scripture is to be accepted and the other writing discarded.

Of course, you might be seeing a contradiction between, for instance, Calvin and the Bible because of another interpretation that is colouring your understanding of one or the other or both. Perhaps, IOW, you are seeing a contradiction where someone else would not due to each of you having different influences on your understanding of scripture. How much of what we see in the Bible or any writing is really our understanding being coloured by what we've read, learned, heard about that writing before?

All of which is a round about way of saying that no one alive today (and, I emphasize, no one) has a pure, unfiltered understanding of the Bible. It is a 2000 year-old collection of texts and everyone alive sees it through the lenses and filters that have built up over those 2000 years.

 

[Jaebius]

Of course, you might be seeing a contradiction between, for instance, Calvin and the Bible because of another interpretation that is colouring your understanding of one or the other or both. Perhaps, IOW, you are seeing a contradiction where someone else would not due to each of you having different influences on your understanding of scripture. How much of what we see in the Bible or any writing is really our understanding being coloured by what we've read, learned, heard about that writing before?

All of which is a round about way of saying that no one alive today (and, I emphasize, no one) has a pure, unfiltered understanding of the Bible. It is a 2000 year-old collection of texts and everyone alive sees it through the lenses and filters that have built up over those 2000 years.

If the Bible says, "The only equine animal God owns is a black horse," and Mr. Calvin writes, "The only equine animal God owns is a white horse," I'll believe the only equine animal God owns is a black horse, and not a white horse, zebra, donkey, nor ass.

 

[Jaebius]

And what if Scripture contradicts itself?

Then there would be danger. However, while it may seem to at times, it doesn't.