ORGANIZED ATHEISM

[Hermann]

Last night CBC's National reported on the phenomenon of atheistic congregations arising all over Canada. And afterwards a discussion panel discussed the topic.

What do you think of organized atheism? Is it a good thing? Is it increasing in Canada and the Western world? Is it a backlash against organized religion? Is it an adequate substitute for organized religion, displacing or replacing it?

 

[Mendalla]

I assume you're referring to the fact that three (IIRC) Sunday Assemblies started in Canada yesterday (alas, London is not one of them).

They are not, I do not believe, so much a backlash against religion as, arguably, something of a substitute. Basically, it's a secular event that borrows ideas from religious liturgy for those of a non-theist (atheist, agnostic, or just not getting what they want from organized religion) bent. For years, we've had people like this coming to UU for the same thing so it is hardly new.

As for organized, that's a bit of a stretch at this point. Morgan Spurlock, in his documentary series on CNN, led one in (IIRC) North Carolina and it was rather like my UU fellowship's services used to be. A "talk" framed by singing (mostly pop songs of a somewhat spiritual bent, e.g. "Imagine") and some mild ritual elements. It was run by a committee (there is no "minister") who choose the music and invite the speaker and it is completely "congregational". They don't seem to be doing any pastoral care or outreach yet but I am happy to be corrected on those points if that is a misperception. There is no central authority or dogma, just the original group in the UK promoting the idea and helping others start their own.

So, I don't think it constitutes an organized atheist "denomination" YET, just as the early Christian church of Paul's time wasn't really the organized "church" that we know today, just cells of Christians meeting in various locations around the Empire. The bigger question is whether it could evolve into an organized atheist "religion" and my initial perception is that it could but that it would likely be rather UU-ish (congregational, very focussed on individual spiritual development rather than adherence to a "creed") minus our continuing acknowledgement of theistic spiritual paths.

 

[Mendalla]

Here is a page on Morgan Spurlock's blog with some clips from the show on religion and the Sunday Assemblies (Book of Morgan is the episode title and the show is Inside Man).

http://insideman.blogs.cnn.com/page/2/

 

[Hermann]

Yes, they didn't mention the UU on last night's discussion on the CBC National, yet the UU had been an alternative for people disenchanted with conventional organized religion for years, attracting everyone from atheist to agnostic to a-religious to spiritual-but-not-religious.

I think it is a simple craving for community that drives people to congregate, enjoy each others company, and explore new social and moral ideas and perhaps even carry them out in practice. Various social fraternities have been doing that for years. This is not a new phenomenon, but maybe disenchantment with conventional organized religion drives more and more people to try these alternatives. Organizing on a national level is, of course, difficult. That's why many of these new pseudo-religious clubs are just congregational.

And maybe some outspoken anti-theists, with an anti-religious axe to grind, are trying to set up an anti-religious religion in order to defeat conventional religion. My own brother is one of those usually mild-mannered atheists who nevertheless get unreasonably angry when the talk turns to conventional religion. He just can't tolerate it!

 

[Hermann]

Here is a page on Morgan Spurlock's blog with some clips from the show on religion and the Sunday Assemblies (Book of Morgan is the episode title and the show is Inside Man).

http://insideman.blogs.cnn.com/page/2/

Thanks, Mendalla.

I'll listen to Morgan Spurlock a little later, when I have my hearing aids in.

 

[chansen]

Hermann, some religious dogma can not tolerate non-belief. Religion can not be surprised when some atheists are also anti-theists.

As for organized atheism, I don't think it's going to be easy to gather people based on what they don't believe. More to the point, I think these organizations are for people to gather who are used to, or long for a church environment, but just can't believe in the faith. I don't think atheists in churches are a completely uncommon thing, but in these cases, I hypothesize that these people can't believe, and they can't co-exist with believers any longer. Especially when faith demeans non-faith. You're gonna lose the non-faithful if they have an option. These sorts of places provide people with a God-free option.

But again, I don't think they are rallying around atheism, as much as they are community, and maybe a place to explore deep questions. Just like there are no organizations devoted to people who don't have cats, you could sell people on gathering under the banner of atheism, as a push-back against religion, for only so long. It has to be about community, doing good, questioning, etc., if it's going to have legs.

 

[Hermann]

I don't think they are rallying around atheism, as much as they are community, and maybe a place to explore deep questions. Just like there are no organizations devoted to people who don't have cats, you could sell people on gathering under the banner of atheism, as a push-back against religion, for only so long. It has to be about community, doing good, questioning, etc., if it's going to have legs.

Yes, chansen, I agree.

 

[Jaebius]

Last night CBC's National reported on the phenomenon of atheistic congregations arising all over Canada. And afterwards a discussion panel discussed the topic.

What do you think of organized atheism? Is it a good thing? Is it increasing in Canada and the Western world? Is it a backlash against organized religion? Is it an adequate substitute for organized religion, displacing or replacing it?

If they want to get together and have meetings and support one another and stuff it's okay with me. I think it's only natural that they'd seek each other out. I feel it is increasing, but I have no stats to offer. It is a reaction to something, perhaps largely to organized religion.

 

[Hermann]

I think it is not a backlash against organized religion as such as it is a backlash against organized religion indoctrinating people into literalized mythology as absolute truth, which constitutes an intellectual abuse of power, as well other abuses of power. Although most mainstream Christian denominations have gone away from that now, it appears to be too little, too late. People have lost their trust in religion, the Exodus is well underway, but the abusive empire people escape from this time is not Egypt but the Christian imperialist power structure.

Where is the present day Moses to lead the disenchanted masses to a new Promised Land?

I think it is better to be leaderless, or need leaders less. Individualism. Everyone becoming their own leader. If we listen to a new Moses, then we may get no more than another code written in stone, and the violators be damned.