Office of Vocation

[Jobam]

Anyone have any thoughts on how this is going to work?

Interesting read. Not sure if it is up to date.

https://commons.united-church.ca/Do...pac/2018-05 May/Office of Vocation Update.pdf

 

[Luce NDs]

If vocation is something of strong feelings about speaking ... would the thoughtful part be weakened? Perhaps on coming out of the black nonsense of Shabbat times ... po' folk?

 

[revjohn]

Anyone have any thoughts on how this is going to work?

If it works as planned then the office of vocation will be responsible for ensuring that clergy serving within the UCCAN or clergy wishing to serve in the UCCAN will be in a continuous state of readiness. Institutionally, that means having kept current with all of the ongoing requirements (Racial Justice and Safe Boundaries training) and current Vulnerable Sector Screening certification.

At present Racial Justice and Safe Boundaries training is tracked but rarely enforced with respect to being current. Vulnerable Sector Screening is currently reviewed every 6 years a clergy maintains a pastoral relationship and every time clergy requests a change of pastoral relationship.

The Office of Vocation will have an expanded role in ensuring all ministry personnel are engaged in continuing education opportunities so there will likely be a little less flexibility in what con-ed looks like. That said, with less flexibility there should be greater recognition of on-going training by the wider Church. No idea what that will look like.

The Office of Vocation will, if it works as planned, eliminate the variability that exists from Presbytery to Presbytery and Conference to Conference with respect to discernment and discipline of ministry personnel.

 

[Mendalla]

Is there going to be any cost to ministers or charges or will it all be funded by current revenues streams? I know medical colleges have fees that our health care professionals get reimbursed for since they require the certification to practice with us.

 

[paradox3]

Is there going to be any cost to ministers or charges or will it all be funded by current revenues streams? I know medical colleges have fees that our health care professionals get reimbursed for since they require the certification to practice with us.

Interesting. I don't know of any other employers who reimburse health professionals for their college (regulatory body) fees. The fees were income tax deductible, however. We also had to purchase malpractice insurance. Same deal.

 

[GordW]

Is there going to be any cost to ministers or charges or will it all be funded by current revenues streams? I know medical colleges have fees that our health care professionals get reimbursed for since they require the certification to practice with us.

THe Office of Vocation is wholly funded by the church as part of its governance. Should an Association of Ministers be formed it will likely be funded by membership.

 

[Mrs.Anteater]

Is there going to be any cost to ministers or charges or will it all be funded by current revenues streams? I know medical colleges have fees that our health care professionals get reimbursed for since they require the certification to practice with us.

Your medical college must be inexpensive- I costs me $900/ year to be allowed and insured to work and we don’t get reimbursed.

 

[Mendalla]

Your medical college must be inexpensive- I costs me $900/ year to be allowed and insured to work and we don’t get reimbursed.

Not sure when the practice started or anything. It's not my department. I know it was mentioned in a discussion in a leadership meeting on Friday.

 

[revjohn]

Is there going to be any cost to ministers or charges or will it all be funded by current revenues streams?

As it represents a new way of doing the same old thing the costs will be part of the governance budget.

Apart from the fee charged for vulnerable sector screening which varies depending on the police service initiating the screen.

I know medical colleges have fees that our health care professionals get reimbursed for since they require the certification to practice with us.

The Office of Vocation is not a regulatory college. It is a body of the larger church and accountable to it.

An Association of Ministers was floated by some clergy. It failed to get traction and compelling clergy to join it made it feel too much like the clergy union which was a fiasco.

 

[Luce NDs]

Life is like that a fiasco ... and the powerfully successful operate in a way that the unconscious mind gives up and fades into oblivion (considered dark and mysterious abyss)!

Sometimes you can draw on it in the dark and pull yourself out of the maas Ada thing ... doubly snaky ... Caduceus!

 

[paradox3]

The Office of Vocation is not a regulatory college. It is a body of the larger church and accountable to it.

It sounds like it will function a lot like a regulatory college however. Or do you not think so?

 

[revsdd]

It sounds like it will function a lot like a regulatory college however. Or do you not think so?

There will be similarities and differences. The Office will be responsible for standards and discipline. But ministers will not be members of the Office, unlike regulatory colleges.

Personally, while I acknowledge that there were problems in the system with accountability of ministers directly to Presbytery, it's my opinion that this new Office is badly understaffed to do the work required across the country and while I haven't followed the hiring process, I'm aware that some who are in the know aren't that impressed by the overall quality of people hired. It will be interesting to see how it works and how it impacts ministry work.

Of course the whole restructuring will be interesting. And, in my view, will accomplish a big fat zero for everybody - except that it will consume us for a while trying to figure out how everything works. Or maybe I'm just becoming cynical in my middle age.

 

[Redbaron]

Not that I, nor anyone I know personally, was around to see it, but I'm sure in 1925, there were some rather serious issues about how this newfangled thing would work. We did, somehow, manage to survive. We may even survive this period of chaos and adjustment as well.

Or so I hope.

 

[paradox3]

There will be similarities and differences. The Office will be responsible for standards and discipline. But ministers will not be members of the Office, unlike regulatory colleges.

IIRC the initial proposal was for a college of ministers. And I seem to remember it changed to an Office because regulatory colleges are a provincial responsibility.

 

[GordW]

The Office of Vocation will have an expanded role in ensuring all ministry personnel are engaged in continuing education opportunities so there will likely be a little less flexibility in what con-ed looks like. That said, with less flexibility there should be greater recognition of on-going training by the wider Church. No idea what that will look like.

I suspect (though as you say the details are still fuzzy) that we will be asked to accumulate Continuing Education Units (CEU) as proof that we have participated in COn Ed opportunities. This is something other professions and clergy in other denominations are already asked of. However there then become the question of how those will come. AS it stands many UCCan clergy (or at least some) use one of their weeks as a reading and/or planning week -- which will obviously not provide a CEU -- at least in part because attending 3 weeks of events is not in a budget.

 

[GordW]

IIRC the initial proposal was for a college of ministers. And I seem to remember it changed to an Office because regulatory colleges are a provincial responsibility.

Part of the change was also (though maybe not stated) was that folk were not always comfortable referring to ministry in the same way as a "profession" -- that has been a long standing debate in some circles. ANd part of it was that in the history of our tradition it is not normal for the profession to self-regulate and self-define. Decisions in the UCCan have always been made by lay and clergy together.How that will work under the Office and Board of vocation is yet to be seen.

 

[Luce NDs]

Free lance vocationalist will take a poke at learning more ... others will be seized ...