Gen Z is Leading Church Attendance

timothyu said:

Yes, but for most, it is what is in it for self, first. Even so called good intentions often serve a need for feeling self-righteous.

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Like prayer?

Also, I'm sorry, but I still can't get past the mental image of a dog that can ski like me. That would be awesome.

timothyu said:

Yes, but for most, it is what is in it for self, first. Even so called good intentions often serve a need for feeling self-righteous.

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You could make this argument about absolutely anything one person does for another.

Waterfall said:

Is this happening in your church?

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I don't have a church.

I usually find myself in a church building only when attending funerals or weddings.

There is a church group within 20 minutes of my home which I have attended on such occasions.

I have also on occasion zoomed in on that church's sunday service.

It is a non-denominational/christian congregation with about 250 regular attendees.

The youth group is front and center in all of it's churchly endeavors in and around the community.

The resident pastor is probably between the age of 30-40 by the looks of him.

The pews show a bigger percentage of younger people in regular attendance than older people.

paradox3 said:

You could make this argument about absolutely anything one person does for another.

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All depends on motive. Seeking for self need not be involved, even though doing so can often be used and appear as good or evil. Remember what was said about prayer in your closet and not looking for recognition. That applies with feeling pleased with oneself.

Humans are humans. Motivations vary widely but never, or perhaps almost never, purely because someone wants to give of themselves to help another. So does the motivation matter or just the outcome? If I create a program that feeds the hungry, does it matter whether I did it for a tax writeoff or because a starving child makes me cry? After all, even "selfless" giving with no other benefit can happen just because the giver gets a dopamine rush out of being a good person. So, arguably, still not selfless, just not done for any reason other than feeling good (no tax breaks, social status elevation, etc.) The ideal scenario is not, then, selfless giving (because, possibly with rare exceptions, there is no such thing) but giving that produces a positive outcome for both giver and receiver regardless of why it is done. I suppose there are cases where people give even though it harms the giver or leaves them suffering in some way and that could be defined as "selfless" but I still suspect that if you dig deep enough, there is some inner motivation or need being satisfied that makes it a benefit to them. After all, some people get off on their own suffering.

(And dang, this is way off topic but I like the conversation.)

Thus simple self-less-ness is rendered into something of a more complex chord!

A real OHm'r ...

Is a human networking very complicated and contrary to those proposing only winning members?

Obviously you could not speak directly and truly to these concerns and thus the need for stories, myths and ballads ... circumstantial ethics?

Mendalla said:

So does the motivation matter or just the outcome?

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Selfless giving would be the act of giving without expecting anything in return.

WhyCzar said:

Selfless giving would be the act of giving without expecting anything in return.

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And that's what I am wondering. Does that even exist? Is even feeling good because you gave getting something in return? Because I sometimes get the feeling that some equate "selfless" with "giving without expectation until it hurts" and I am not sure that's realistic or even a valid understanding of giving.

Mendalla said:

Does that even exist?

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Giving without attachment/expectation to specific outcomes does exist.

No good deed goes unpunished?

Giving without expectation protects the giver's peace of mind.

Deleted. I gaveth a post and tooketh it away. A lot of blah blah about selflessness then realized it just sounds haughty on my part.

It’s possible to give without keeping score, though. I usually hope that it at least helps the recipient, or makes their day a bit easier, if that’s selfish.

Kimmio Laughterlove said:

It’s possible to give without keeping score, though.

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Especially so when the giving is unintentional.

Is been said the highest form of charity is anonymous. These are Sentiments from Kahlil Gibran...in his book the Prophet, only said more eloquently.

WhyCzar said:

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Sort of fits the situation that the enemy is within! Thus we adapt to the learning curve although we are told to be against it ... and thus we go without!

Isn't that beyond normal? Well that go; will it travel? Periods of styme may be encountered in the sea sure ... beached?

Is life a sensible domain? What is your impression of how life is going for everyone ... are the exceptional suffering avarice? It is how life is shed ... butchering!

Thorough the looking glass and back to reality. The world as we have made it, is backwards to our intended being.

We have an "intended being"?

You mean the living in the ocean thing? That was too wet and we got all wrinkly. We went up in the trees but then somebody invented the fear of heights and that ended that.

What is our "intended being"?